Don

February 7th, 2018 at 7:22 AM ^

NPF to OSU

Relationship with Schiano was key in recruitment; says NPF didn’t see any meaningful academic difference between OSU and Michigan.

Once again, Michigan fans fool themselves over the “academics are very important to me” line.

Scarlatina

February 7th, 2018 at 7:48 AM ^

Supposedly, Belichick is still debating between current Patriots’ LB coach Brian Flores or Greg Schiano to be DC.

However, Greg Schiano’s relationship with Berkeley Prep’s head coach (Schiano’s sons attended the school for 2 years) was the key to getting initial interest in NPF, but Greg Studwara the OL coach has since built a pretty strong relationship as well.

Magnus

February 7th, 2018 at 7:57 AM ^

Schiano might have a good relationship with Petit-Frere, but Schiano is the defensive coordinator and Petit-Frere is an offensive tackle. Once Petit-Frere gets to campus, they wouldn't be spending much time together in meetings or even on the practice field.

Jimmyisgod

February 7th, 2018 at 7:57 AM ^

I think these players and their parents know that the academics for football are different than the regular academics for most players at any school. You aren’t selling a Michigan or OSU education so much as you’re selling the academic help players get within the program and what that means. These players and their parents know their kids aren’t going to be sitting in the chemistry lab next to the regular kids at those schools, they’ll be sitting in the football building with a tudor. This is what programs sell to recruits and their families. In that regard, I have no idea how Michigan’s football academics compare to other school’s.

ak47

February 7th, 2018 at 8:35 AM ^

People also overrate like hell the difference in academics between schools. Ranking and prestige matter but my two siblings who went to Maryland got as good of an education as I did at Michigan and we got as good of an education as did my friends at Harvard. It’s what you make of it as a student.

For a football player the prestige thing matters a lot less because you are guaranteed a supportive community post grad. So npf is probably right that to him there isn’t really a meaningful difference.

The Mad Hatter

February 7th, 2018 at 8:50 AM ^

My daughter has a couple friends at MSU and they're not getting anywhere near the education that she's getting in Ann Arbor.  And to suggest that a Maryland degree is on par with Harvard is just silly.  Even if the education was exactly the same (it's not), the IVY degree is going to open a lot more doors.

I agree that this sort of thing probably matters a lot less to athletes.  Although, given that only a few of them make it to the next level, they should care about academics as much as a regular student.

Blue_by_U

February 7th, 2018 at 10:21 AM ^

completed my undergrad at UM, and honestly I knew it was challenging, but honestly thought the same, if I had an offer somewhere else, would it really matter what school I attended? Then I started grad school at Toledo. Toledo isn't stellar, Harvard, or anything like it, but it's not a bad school and at that point I just needed a graduate degree. I discovered on day one of my masters coursework, 'the Michigan difference' as most of the class were UT alum. Even the most basic introductory questions, they sat like stones and honestly did not appear to have a clue. I sheepishly waited, then started a response to a class discussion...professor spoke up and asked where I went to undergrad, because it clearly wasn't Toledo. When I replied Michigan...he pulled up the course text, written by one of my UM professors...and said so you know this guy? And I said haaa yeah I had him for 100, 200, 300 level courses...he pulled me aside after class and put me on a research project with creatine instead of continuing the class. So yeah, at least in my experience it's truly different..even as a collegiate athlete.

Jimmyisgod

February 7th, 2018 at 9:16 AM ^

Oh give me a break, MSU has upped their standards by like %300 in the last couple decades.  Heck, people who go into Michigan in the 80s and 90s might not get into MSU now.  I've got plenty of coworkers whose kids have like 3.8 GPAs and are barely getting into MSU now.  Average incoming freshmen GPA for MSU is virtually the same as Michigan now, but Michigan requires higher test scores (ACT, SAT).

My nephew is a Junior at Michigan and he's majoring in beer and skating by with a 2.7 GPA, doubt he couldn't get the exact same education at MSU.

Blue_by_U

February 7th, 2018 at 3:57 PM ^

That simple...UM and many schools recalculate gpas to offset absurd 4.65 stuff.. so if you take a 5.0 class and pull a 4.0 B it's graded and averaged down. Same regard the value of the high school is averaged. My son has a 3.7 as does his sister and both are being recruited to play sports at ivy league schools... So it's a weird process to some extent.

Blue_by_U

February 7th, 2018 at 3:57 PM ^

That simple...UM and many schools recalculate gpas to offset absurd 4.65 stuff.. so if you take a 5.0 class and pull a 4.0 B it's graded and averaged down. Same regard the value of the high school is averaged. My son has a 3.7 as does his sister and both are being recruited to play sports at ivy league schools... So it's a weird process to some extent.

snarling wolverine

February 7th, 2018 at 9:48 AM ^

If they're "barely getting in" at MSU with a 3.8, they were probably taking easy classes in high school or really bombed their standardized tests.

MSU's standards are not bad by any means but suggesting they're comparable to ours is a major reach.  

Per the most recent data, MSU freshmen had a reported 3.62 GPA and ACT range of 23-28 / SAT 1050-1310.

U-M freshmen had a reported 3.82 and ACT range of 29-33 / SAT 1370-1530.  So our lowest-performing incoming freshmen on the SAT/ACT were still scoring higher than virtually all of theirs.

 

 

 

 

ColoradoBlue

February 7th, 2018 at 12:07 PM ^

Graduated from UM, but my parents both were faculty at OSU.  So tuition was so cheap that it made sense to knock out some credits there in the summer.  

Without a shadow of a doubt, there is a big difference between the cultures and climate academically.  The quality of instruction at OSU was fine - no better or worse than UM in my opinion.  But UM is so chock-full of the overachieving hyper-competitive types that just permeates all aspects of life.  It forces the faculty engineer the curve by racheting up the rigor of curriculum.  It forces students to dig deeper; work harder; sweat the details more.  I came out of it all a different person than how I went in.  I don't know if that environment is better or worse in the grand scheme of life.  OSU culture is probably more "normal" if there is such a thing.  My OSU buddies certainly seems to study less and go out more (they went out on weeknights). 

Not too surprisingly, my hyper-competitive UM friends have gone on to have wildly successful careers.  My OSU friends, as a general group, have had good, but less dazzling careers.  To each, his own.

jmblue

February 7th, 2018 at 11:21 AM ^

 

My nephew is a Junior at Michigan and he's majoring in beer and skating by with a 2.7 GPA, doubt he couldn't get the exact same education at MSU.

 

So you just happen to know your nephew's college GPA off the top of your head?  That's a fairly random piece of knowledge to have at hand.  Yeah, I'm going to call BS on this one.

As for it being the "exact same education," I can offer you this anecdote I shared earlier in the thread.

wayneandgarth

February 7th, 2018 at 9:53 AM ^

You need to compare by the Common Data Set which is a submitted set of comparible statistics on class statistics.

Using the 2016-17 Common Data Set for Freshman admittance:

 

Michigan:

ACT Scores:

30-36 74%

24-29 23%

Lower 3%

Ave. high school GPA 3.84

 

MSU:

ACT Scores:

30-36 19%

24 - 29 57%

Lower 24%

Ave. high school GPA 3.70 - which isn't bad

ak47

February 7th, 2018 at 10:10 AM ^

A Maryland education isn’t viewed the same as an Ivy League I agree so going to an Ivy League still has value over md.

I disagree that the education received is that different. Orgo is orgo, Econ is Econ, I didn’t get more homework, longer or more reading assignments than them, didn’t have to write more papers, etc.

A lot of the best research happening in the us isn’t happening at ivy leagues anymore, md has multiple programs rated higher than equivalent programs at Harvard with more renowned and respected professors in that field. Prestige is a valuable thing so it matters but that is the primary difference. Because of that prestige the network you build at those schools is going to be more valuable which is really the biggest takeaway.

I have two Michigan roommates getting phds at Harvard, one in biochemistry and one in history, they both are thoroughly unimpressed by Harvard undergraduates and don’t see a difference from Michigan. Google has two co-founders, one of them went to md, he still had the education to co Found it with Michigan grad Larry page. The education isn’t that different, how it’s viewed is and that matters.

Occam's Razor

February 7th, 2018 at 10:17 AM ^

Ak is right. Prestige doesn’t mean nearly as much as it used to.

For example, if you want to do engineering, the ivy leagues cannot compete with top public schools like Michigan.

Schools like Michigan open just as many doors nationally like ivy leagues do these days.

Schools like Pitt and Maryland do the same but are more regionalized around PA and the Atlantic coast.