MSU jumping the snap count

Submitted by SpreadGuru on October 5th, 2010 at 9:48 PM

It seems to me that I have heard quite a bit about State jumping UM's snap count in the two games since Coach Rod took over.  Has anyone else heard this?  If so, I would certainly hope that UM would have some kind of "change up" for them. 

Comments

Hard Gay

October 5th, 2010 at 10:07 PM ^

MSU was able to jump the snap for the past two years because the quarterback would give the center a signal that he was ready and then the center would snap it after a short delay.  

In 2008, Threet would do the handclap to signal he was ready.  I distinctly remember MSU getting called offsides later in the game because Molk would increase the delay between the clap and the snap.

In 2009, they switched the snap count so that the quarterback would just yell "Ready....GO!" and the ball would be snapped immediately on "GO!"  This was only for home games, where crowd noise wasn't a factor.  On away games, they would still have signal induced delayed snap, only instead of clapping, they would do the leg lift.  Since MSU was an away game last year, they were able to jump the snap again.  Also, Molk being out and Moosman playing his second game at center may have had something to do with it.

This year, it is a home game and we've done away with the hand clap, so I expect to see the ball snapped immediately on "Go!"  Also, we have Molk back so I doubt jumping the snap will be as much of an issue.

I could be an idiot and really wrong, though.

Blazefire

October 6th, 2010 at 8:16 AM ^

yelling at my TV, "Stop trying to outsmart them and just play your damn position properly!"

He must've personally caused three or four mishandled snaps, at least. It actually got to the point where it was pretty obvious that state's D-linemen were trying to bait him into it.

SlaunchaMan

October 5th, 2010 at 9:58 PM ^

After last year, this is one thing I’m worried about. Transitioning from Tate to Denard, let’s hope they remember and it isn’t lost in dilithium excitement.

formerlyanonymous

October 5th, 2010 at 9:59 PM ^

The first year at Michigan Stadium, they probably could have been flagged off sides about 12 times had our players been good enough on offense to take advantage. The ball was usually not snapped until after the DE's/OLB's got back onside.

I think it's safe to assume our players are better now, but I didn't notice MSU jumping the snap much against Wisconsin. Could be that they've become a bit better in that respect, too.

davidhm

October 5th, 2010 at 10:02 PM ^

I believe I recall some talk about teams perhaps reading Denard's pre-snap leg-lift and going on that.  

I'm not sure how this would help a defense against this offense on downs other than 3rd and long and obvious pass situations. Even then I could still see an LB/CB/S taking himself out of a play by jumping the snap and being on the opposite side of the play or at a bad angle to make a play on Denard.  

BlueTimesTwo

October 5th, 2010 at 10:13 PM ^

I don't think that there is a benefit to having defenders get off of the ball before our O-line gets moving, unless it is a screen play or something where the defenders are supposed to over-pursue.  Even when telegraphing the snap the last couple of years, there were plenty of flags that could have been thrown against MSU but were not.

If they try to time the snap again, I do hope we scheme for it and use it against them.

jmblue

October 6th, 2010 at 12:06 AM ^

Actually, it's against the run  - specifically, in short-yardage situations - where jumping the snap count is big, because it can make it hard for the OL to get leverage.  It's not as big a deal on a pass play (although it may help a DE get around the edge).

03 Blue 07

October 6th, 2010 at 1:15 AM ^

Getting off the ball first is massively important, imo, from playing tight end and defensive end through high school. (I know, i know- fully aware that this is nowhere near the level that M and MSU are playing at). But seriously, every dline coaching instructional thing I ever saw, heard, or read said that by far the majority of the time, especially on the interior line, the guy who gets his hands inside the other guy's shoulders first wins the battle, and firing out quickly-- on both sides of the ball-- and punching the hands out , is what I mean by "getting your hands on the other guy first." I can also say that for offensive linemen in the pass game as well, getting off the ball first is massively important, as they can get into their crouch a split second faster, make a slide step, etc., and be better prepared for the rush or to read and react to a blitz. Further, on a reach block, where you need a decisive lateral or 45 degree first step, getting off the ball first/fastest is equally crucial, as you want to make a quick, long first step to cut off the angle of the defender. Obviously, being "there" first assists greatly in cutting off the angle..

In sum, it's really important in any play, except for a screen pass. The offensive and defensive players are racing to a spot-- that spot being either where they are headed to block or their initial drop on a pass play for the offense, or the qb or their gap in most defensive schemes, or even the "spot" being the chest of the guy they're head-up on in a 2 gap scheme. There's simply no logical way that getting off the ball first-- and thus getting a head start on getting to your destination-- isn't a huge advantage. You change snap counts for this very reason; you don't just change the snap count to try to draw them offsides.

bklein09

October 5th, 2010 at 10:56 PM ^

Listen, this is not an area we need to concern ourselves with.

First of all, this game is at home. So there will be no need for silent snap counts that require some visable signal of when the ball is going to be snapped (ie clapping or leg lift).

Second, if we the fans have noticed this over the past two years, then I am pretty confident that the coaches, players, trainers, ball boys, water boys, etc have also taken note. If it is a problem, it will be fixed come Saturday.

Third, varying snap count is not something that is difficult to do. In HS its as easy as going on the first, second, third, etc HIKE (or GO) call. In the huddle at the end of the play the QB says "On 3" and the team goes on the third call. Because this is random for every play, the defense will have a hard time jumping it. So if we could do this in HS, I'm sure a Michigan team can handle something much more complex.

For instance, sometimes Michigan will come up to the line as if they are going to snap the ball. Denard yells "GO!" And then the whole team turns to the sideline to get the audible. Sometimes they don't do this and go on the first call. These basic things alone would seem to prevent State from getting a good read on the count. Unless of course they are willing to take 4-5 Offsides penalties against them, in which case they are welcome to try.

GoBlueBalls

October 5th, 2010 at 11:14 PM ^

The snap count debacle two years ago was like death by 1000 paper cuts. That being said, you're comparing threet/sheridan and a transitioning o-line to heisman hopeful denard and the proven tools around him. They're apples and oranges.

StephenRKass

October 5th, 2010 at 11:41 PM ^

Just do a simple search, say on "snap count."

Oh, and BTW, please don't post about Michigan students hacking the Washington DC computer system. It has already been posted a few times.

HAIL-YEA

October 5th, 2010 at 11:54 PM ^

being pretty damn upset when that was going on 2 years ago. Last year was not as bad but it still happened. The big difference this year is the pace at which the offense operates.  So far most teams are just gettting into posistion when the ball is getting snapped, not much time to focus on reading the snap count. Can't say it enough, Denard just changes everything.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

October 5th, 2010 at 11:46 PM ^

Actually, with Denard, jumping the snap count and blowing up the play might be the worst thing MSU can do.  Why they'd give him more incentive than he needs to take off running is beyond me.