MSU F Branden Dawson returning to school

Submitted by Leaders And Best on April 15th, 2014 at 5:07 PM

Per MSU release, Branden Dawson announced his decision to remain in school for his senior season.

http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041514aaa.html

I'm not sure any coach in the country gets more 5 star recruits to stay in school for all four years than Tom Izzo. And I'm not sure if that is a compliment or an insult.

Comments

Credit812

April 15th, 2014 at 5:15 PM ^

that they put their fists through a table when they get frustrated.

That and he doesn't actually teach them skills they'll be able to use in the NBA.

Leaders And Best

April 15th, 2014 at 5:32 PM ^

List of MSU 5 star recruits since 2002:

Gary Harris
Branden Dawson
Adreian Payne
Keith Appling
Delvon Roe
Kalin Lucas
Durrell Summers
Marquise Gray
Shannon Brown
Paul Davis

Some 4 star top-50 recruits:

Chris Allen
Tom Herzog
Raymar Morgan
Brandon Cotton

Gary Harris and Shannon Brown are the only ones to declare early for the NBA Draft since 2002. I think Marquise Gray or Delvon Roe was the biggest bust of them all.

alum96

April 15th, 2014 at 5:53 PM ^

Izzo's main successes individually were 10ish years ago with Zach Randolph and Jason Richardson - both elite NBA bodies.   Since then I think the high point was Shannon Brown and now Gary Harris.  Harris came in ready to be a NBA player - he looked like the same guy in game 4 of his freshman year as game 25 of his sophomore year.  His shooting regressed year over year both in total FG% and 3 PG% even with Payne taking away massive attention.  So even Harris is not a "success story" in development - he was a guy that was just ready to be a NBA player and would have been a one and done if his shoulders hadnt popped out every 3rd game in his freshman year.

Draymond Green would probably be Izzo's best case of "development" - but that again took 4 years and he was a 4 star.

If you want to be a cynic about Izzo you can make the case he has taken a lot of 4 and 5 star talent, not developed them quickly, and benefited from playing a lot of 4-5 star guys in their JR and SR years playing against NCAA competition where those players' peers were in the NBA 2 years earlier.  So in a way it is brilliant I guess - but it seems to be reaping itself now when more players of that caliber he used to get want to be one and done or two and done.

Sebastian

April 15th, 2014 at 6:19 PM ^

When that point is made how in the world can a kid who has aspirations of going to the NBA sign with MSU over a place like Michigan? If Beilein's draft success continues from his development then Michigan will finally start getting those players that go to Kentucky and Kansas. That will be scary for the competition. 

Leaders And Best

April 15th, 2014 at 6:41 PM ^

He lost out on some big time recruits the last 2 years that MSU may have led for at one point in time: Jabari Parker, Tyus Jones, Jahlil Okafor, Cliff Alexander, Tyler Ulis, Kevon Looney, and Devin Booker. All of them are Midwest kids that passed on MSU.

Beilein has had more players leave early for the NBA in the last 5 years than Tom Izzo in his entire 19 year career.

Leaders And Best

April 15th, 2014 at 6:20 PM ^

And it's not close really. Izzo has had only 5 players leave early for the NBA in his whole 19 year career. I think Duke had 5 in the last 10 years. If Parker and Hood go pro as expected, that will make 7 players early to the NBA in the last 10 years.

Only 6 players in Izzo's entire 19 year career at MSU have scored more than 1,000 points in the NBA. Draymond Green will most likely join this group next year. Duke has 12 players in that group since just 2002 with another 4-5 players likely to join this group next year. Izzo can't even sniff the same success that Coach K has had with players in the NBA in the last 10 years. You could make the argument that Izzo is one of the worst elite college coaches for NBA player development based on his career track record.

alum96

April 15th, 2014 at 7:06 PM ^

Lucas was a 4 star, per Rivals #38 in the country and the 6th PG.  So consider him a Chatman level recruit.

Appling was a HS All American of which I believe there are about 24? 4 star also #38 in the nation.

Point is Izzo has received a boatload of recruits in the 10-50 area, and you'd think a lot more of them would have healthy NBA careers.  Between Randolph/Richardson and Gary Harris I think you basically had Shannon Brown and Alan Anderson? 

I don't know where a "5" star ends and "4" star begins in the basketball world - I would assume somwhere around 30 since  Irvin was a 5 star as the #25 recruit.  So he was barely a 5 star at Rivals rank #25 where Lucas and Appling barely missed being a 4 star.

And as we all know, recruiting rankings are not science i.e. slot 22 is better than slot 29 because experts say so - the difference between Lucas/Appling at #38 in the country and Irvin at #25 in the country is some people's opinion and a sliver of talent.

michfan4borw

April 15th, 2014 at 6:55 PM ^

I googled "Kevin Tolbert" which led me to KELVIN TORBERT.  This article popped up

 

http://greatlakeshoops.com/2010/02/04/former-flint-northwestern-and-msu…

Quote: "Torbert was arguably the top high school player in the country (he won two such awards) and would have been a top 10-15 pick in the NBA Draft straight out of high school. He chose to go to MSU, and the rest is history.  I know there are many basketball fans in Flint that still believe that choosing MSU was the kiss of death for Torbert’s NBA prospects."

 

 

Generic MGoBlogger

April 15th, 2014 at 5:23 PM ^

Probably an insult... At least I would take it as an insult... Five stars pour to the NBA these days after 1-2 years. Says something about Izzo's recent development of high quality players... Outside of Draymond Green and Gary Harris (obviously next season), name an NBA player from MSU that has flourished at the next level from Izzo's coaching over the past ten years.

bronxblue

April 15th, 2014 at 6:07 PM ^

I looked and there are 4 NBA players currently playing who went to MSU (they apparently still consider Richardson but he hasn't suited up yet this year), and really the only major success is Randolph, who bolted early.  Hell, Michigan has about the same breakdown with just Beilein, and they'll probably have two more next with Nik and Glenn.

CLord

April 15th, 2014 at 11:10 PM ^

Or it could have something to do with Izzo being a cork snorkling douche bag.  I worked with a guy who was top sales, and every time he had an excellent person on his sales team come up for promotion, he would work aggressively to suppress those he wanted to continue to help benefit him personally, while letting others go.  I had the same job and I'd always put my teammates' long term interests first, much as Beilein does.

Izzo's a self-serving douche who I'd bet doesn't do half as much as Beilein selflessly does to encourage and help and counsel his best players to go pro.  He holds onto them zealously for his own purposes.

[All my own speculation, but fun to write regardless.]

alum96

April 15th, 2014 at 5:28 PM ^

5 star HS All American - probably could have left after his frosh year and been drafted higher than this year when he flashed huge athleticism.  Has not developed a shot outside of 5 feet, nor any handle.  Great athleticism in the NCAA level but when facing future NBA players at Kentucky, UConn, or UNC he was muzzled.   He stands out against non NBA type players though due to sheer athleticism and now he will be a 22 year old playing a lot of 18-19 year olds.

He was projected mid to late 2nd, so not sure why many thought he was declaring.  Other than he has a child.  He is a European type talent right now - not skilled enough to do much damage at the 3, and kinda small for a NBA 4, bit of a tweener.  Could be a defensive type of stopper though for a good NBA team.

Will create a very experienced MSU lineup next year

5 - JR Costello, 4 - SR Dawson, 3 - JR Valentine, 2 - Open (maybe Alvin Elvis dude), 1 - SR Trice

Offense will run through Valentine as he is the only guy who can create his own shot.

 

alum96

April 15th, 2014 at 5:45 PM ^

Oh big time.  There are like 10 guys in the NCAA who match up with a 5 star senior big man like Payne...and most are 19 years old and not in the Big 10.  

Honestly if Dawson left that group is hot garbage outside of Valentine.  Trice is a good shooter but UConn pressed him into oblivion.  We dont play that style but they could not get into their offense for 15-20 seconds with Appling out.  Costello is just a "he is there" big man.  Kaminsky can shoot well it seems but that is all he does.

Looking ahead a year they will be very young and we'll see how Izzo "develops". He has been loaded with upperclassmen for a long time and the following year (2015-2016) seems the first he will have to deal with what Beilein is doing annually.  They have a top 100 PG coming in and a good player out of Ohio, but from here unless recruiting changes quickly he is replacing HS All Americans with "plucky 3 stars" by and large.

BlockM

April 15th, 2014 at 5:23 PM ^

If he's the one creating shots for MSU, I'll be thrilled. If they develop some of the other guys to create shots for him, he'll have a really good year. His draft stock depends mostly on Valentine and Trice.

cbs650

April 15th, 2014 at 5:28 PM ^

at 6'6 and more of a post player he has no nba position. he has to prove he at least has a mid range game problem is that's not where he is effective for Izzo.

marco dane

April 15th, 2014 at 5:29 PM ^

faill off since frosh year (injuries,punishment,etc...). Don't  know how he's going to improve anymore,when most izzo's recurits don't. They seem to rigress at a certain point.

 

Mmmm Hmmm

April 15th, 2014 at 5:56 PM ^

It means they will rigress (which I always assumed was a female rig)--duh.

To the poster's point, though, I don't follow Staee closely enough to know how their highly-ranked four year players develop (I pay much more attention to Izzo's wining, because it is funnier). However, as others much more astute than me have pointed out, unless Dawson's NBA desirability is fully developed (shooting, post game, etc.), the longer he stays in school the less appealing his potential will be to the NBA. That, of course, applies to all college players.