MSU Basketball Strength Coach Causes Fatal Accident

Submitted by Gucci Mane on July 17th, 2017 at 6:12 PM

      MSU basketball strength and conditioning coach, Todd Moyer, was allegedly texting and driving, causing him to strike a vehicle from behind and kill a mother and daughter.

The victim was my ex girlfriend's auntie. She was a kind person and loved her daughter more than anything.…




M Ascending

July 18th, 2017 at 7:12 AM ^

It may be time to start treating texting the same way we treat DUI -- make it a crime; and attach per se civil liability for negligence if you are involved in an accident while using your phone.

It may also be time to recognize that texting and other types of cell phone use has become an addiction for many people, particularly our youth, who may need some form of rehab to break the chains.


July 18th, 2017 at 1:58 PM ^

I couldn't find the study link, but I know I've seen research that texting--because people tend to do it in their laps to avoid police detection, and so take their eyes completely off the road--is more dangerous than driving drunk by a wide margin. Even more frightening: "A National Highway Traffic Safety Administration survey found 20% of drivers age 18-20 said texting does not affect their driving, and nearly 30% of drivers ages 21-34 said texting has no impact."

To your second point, I've spent the last six months working on a feature for a national news magazine about the effect smartphones have on teen and tween brains. I will post here when it's published (if before end of OT season), but I can tell you what I've learned has made me a zealot about keeping phones away from kids, including my own, who are 1 and 3. The parts of their brains that regulate emotion and anxiety are just not equipped to handle the type of constant stimuli they receive from their phones, and we're starting to see the effects in surging rates of teen depression and suicide. It's all very scary stuff. 


Everyone Murders

July 17th, 2017 at 7:10 PM ^

I take your point to be that if you're driving at .07% BAC in MI, you're legal.  If you're .08% BAC in MI, you're drunk.  That line is artificial, but needs to be drawn - that stated, I'm more sympathetic to the driver who has an accident at .08% than the one at 1.5% (a/k/a shitfaced).  In my life, I err on the side of extreme caution on this issue, both for safety and to be living a good example for my kids.

For all of that, I'm not so sure about there being any mitigation for impaired judgment.  DUI / OUIL (DWI) are strictly status offenses, precisely so there is a clear threshold.  It takes all the subjectivity out of the process for the PO (although there is some of that in the probable cause piece of the arrest).

To your point, however, TEXTING IS MORE DANGEROUS - PER THE AMA - THAN OUR .08% DRIVER.  You wouldn't knowingly drive impaired, so why the hell are people brazenly texting while driving?


July 17th, 2017 at 7:16 PM ^

Agreed, but can you honestly say you never done it before? I bet at least half the people that liked your response have. Could be wrong but as a guy that drives 200+ miles a day. Doesn't matter what gender, race or age. Tons of people are doing it. Not even texting, looking up facebook, email, smart phones are a real problem for people driving. Will it go away? Nope... but somewhere, someone better think of something fast. Hate seeing stories like this. Makes me realize when I have been distracted while driving, how a split second of not looking ahead, could cost a life.


July 17th, 2017 at 7:44 PM ^

What a dumb argument. Yes, we all do stupid things from time to time. The difference is he frequency with which these things are done. You can bet that people that get in accidents texting and driving will, on average, spend more time texting while driving than the average non-collided user.

That's like when people say "oh like you've never had too much to drink and then drive home?"

yes, some people have never (ie not once) driven intoxicated.


July 17th, 2017 at 9:42 PM ^

Not really an argument, its based on facts. I taught my employees a safe driving course. The Smith System. The number of people using their phone for any reason while driving is outrageous. Also dashboard dinning or anything else distractful. But the flaws of people driving is so hypocritical. When was the last time you got pissed off at someone for cutting you off? Probably recently. Now when was the last time you cut someone off? Probably recenlty. I have no proof on whether not someone here texts while driving or gets behind the wheel after a couple drinks. But the facts say that many of us do. Sad but true.


July 18th, 2017 at 8:45 AM ^

Perhaps, and I would love to see the data, but 32% or so (~11,000 people) of the roadway fatalities are caused by someone under the influence of something.  If texting and driving do cause more fatalities than Impaired driving, then it is insane how the US could drop those numbers just by simply taking a cab/DD and putting down the phone.


July 18th, 2017 at 1:27 AM ^

I know this is a texting crash but the DUI comparison is always brought up and I would love to shed some light on the subject because most people are terrible confused about what actually goes into a DUI arrest.


At least in Oregon .08 is strictly a number used for DMV when it comes to the license suspension portion of the process.  A person arrested for DUI that blows .07 is still getting arrested for DUI.  In Oregon a low blow does not mean you get off free.

WD mentioned above that texting and driving should be treated like DUI.  In Oregon depending on the circumstance the statute of Reckless Driving could apply to a driver that was texting.  The driving while texting statute is only a violation so no arrest can be made but DUI and Reckless Drive are both A Misdemeanors. The DUI does carry the penalty of license suspension and cost a ton for the classes that follow the arrest.  DUI that results in a crash and injury is much more sever however.


Hope that all made some sense.  If there is interest, maybe one of these days I will create a DUI info thread and try to clean up some of the misconceptions people have about the process and what it actually means to get a DUI.


July 18th, 2017 at 8:17 AM ^

in Michigan.  .08 is the threshold.  You blow .07 and you are not impaired, you are on your way home.  .08 and you are headed to jail and your car is impounded.  This is rarely an issue, however.  Aside from stings, most people that get pulled over for DUI are not pulled over by chance, it is because they are shit-faced and clearly swerving all over the road, crossing the median, etc., and are far over the legal limit.  You rarely see blood alcohol levels of less than 1.0 in DUI arrests.  Most states now also have a "Super DUI" meaning you have crossed another threshold, typically around 1.6%, and arrests for that kind of DUI carry enhanced penalties.

Texting and driving is an issue for many reasons, primarily because most people have began to demand or expect immediate responses from people, both work and social.  An unreturned text or email for a given period of time is seen as "blowing somebody off" or "ignoring" somebody and can have actual real consequences.  Any and all information passed by text has taken on a status of "importance" simply by the instantaneous nature of the communications.   People feel compelled to respond even when the subject matter is unimportant. 

I was rear ended about seven months ago at pretty high speed.  The girl never even looked up.  I could see it developing in my rear view.  The road can be a scary place right now.


July 18th, 2017 at 9:38 AM ^

"in Michigan.  .08 is the threshold.  You blow .07 and you are not impaired, you are on your way home. "




If you're .08 pr greater - you're getting charged with OWI (Operating While Intoxicated).


If you're under .08, but the police believe you're impaired - you're getting charged with OWVI (Operating WhileVisibly Impaired)




July 18th, 2017 at 9:44 AM ^

Unlikely, in fact.  If you can pass a roadside sobriety test, which is very likely at .07 if you have built up any tolerance at all (two beers in the past hour), there is no charge.  Certainly not a conviction.  OWVI is almost always from a plea bargain.


July 18th, 2017 at 9:50 AM ^

If you pas the roadside sobriety tests - police likely won't believe you're impaired.


If they do believe you're impaired, and you blow .07 - you're probably getting an OWVI.


...and yes, most OWVI are plead down from OWI where the BAC was real close to .08


July 18th, 2017 at 10:04 AM ^

not really.

In cases where the BAC is less than .08, the roadside sobriety test is the factor that determines whether you can or will be charged with OWVI.  A case cannot be brought where "yeah, he blew under the legal limit, and yeah, he passed the only other objective test for impairment, but we still think he is impaired just because we think so."  There is no probable cause for the charge except in really, really unusual circumstances.

And no, OWVI is not typically a plea from OWI really close to .08.  It is basically the automatic plea offered to first time offenders regardless of what they blow, unless they are near 1.8 or 1.9 and then the auto-offer would be OWI.


July 18th, 2017 at 11:42 AM ^

I bicycle to work in a large Midwestern City. When I turn or cross an intersection, I have to make eye contact with drivers to make sure they see me. I see multiple drivers texting and not looking up each day. It is extremely dangerous and I think our society needs to hold these drivers accountable just like with DWIs.

I suspect that in the future, we will look back on this era and wonder how we ever tolerated drivers to text -- just like now we look back at the past and wonder how we condoned drinking and driving.

Toby Flenderson

July 17th, 2017 at 6:37 PM ^

texting behind the fear is the equivilent of having 4 shots in your system. The text can wait, the call can wait. Don't endanger the rest of the public because you just HAVE to open a snapchat from your boy. Such a tragedy, RIP to the victims. 

I have no sympathy for Drunk drivers, text and callers during driving. IT CAN WAIT

Toby Flenderson

July 17th, 2017 at 10:34 PM ^

Hey no problem! Texting while driving causes distraction and impaired driving, similar to those who are drunk. If a person is texting, they are more likely to follow too closely, not brake in time, and weave into traffic. Texting while driving increases your likelyhood of a crash by 23%, which is equivilent to 4 beers. 



July 17th, 2017 at 6:47 PM ^

Terrible consequences. Anti-texting while driving laws should be strengthened.

I don't understand why drivers do this. I must be in the minority. Even though I keep my cell phone in the center console cup holder, I won't even answer the phone let alone text while driving. If I'm curious enough about a call, I will pull off the road to see what's up.


July 17th, 2017 at 6:53 PM ^

I commute from the city in Chicago to the suburbs. We'll be sitting in traffic and I'll look around and see almost every single person looking at their phone. I see texting, I see makeup applications, and i got rear ended a couple months ago by someone who I saw minutes earlier using their phone. It's an epidemic.


July 17th, 2017 at 6:51 PM ^

Most people can't drive worth a shit when they're not distracted, let alone distracted. Older I get the more I just try to stay away from morons. Like George Carlin said, "Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize 50% are dumber than that."

Everyone Murders

July 17th, 2017 at 7:13 PM ^

DON'T FUCKING TEXT AND DRIVE.  I see this shit all the time.

Also, don't be surprised that I did not read your text when I was driving.  I'm not looking at that shit while I'm operating that much metal.  Call me if you must, but only if you must (and don't take it personally if I don't pick up due to traffic, etc.).

Sorry to all involved for this tragic accident.  Obviously especially the victim and her family and friends.  But also to the coach who made a mistake none of us should make, but I see people doing constantly - including in high pedestrian traffic areas, 5+ lanes of expressway traffic at high speeds, etc.  I can't go into the "fuck this guy" camp*, but can solidly get in the "stop this fucking behavior" camp.

To go a bit further, you can help by ragging on your friends when they text while driving - or if you know that someone texting you while driving.  AMA studies have shown this is worse than drunk driving.  So tell your friends to knock that shit off.