MSU and the Injury mantra
A viable reason can easily become a sad excuse. Just as easily "bad luck" can reveal itself as part of an identity. Nobody ever wants to see a team decimated by injuries. Injuries are a variable that many times do come into play in terms of how things play out for any given team in a season. That being said, this display from Michigan State as to the extent of their injuries and the effect it had on last nights has truly become embarrasing for them. From the miniute Brandon Dawson puched Dan Dakich in the.....um, table, table I guess, the rhetoric gushing out of East Lansing and onto ESPN and finally, desperately, pouring out of Dick Vitale last night when it became clear Michigan was leaving with a W has left me losing a certain degree of respect for Michigan State's basketball program. In one way or another, injuries have taken stage front center of the multitude of excuses coming out of East Lansing in the last several season for results on the court. They are an ace in the hole, a fallback that can be dispersed it seems at the will of Tom Izzo to justify any form of underperformance from his team, in a loss, in a close win, in November, in March, whenever it is needed it is there, and the local and national media just start lathering up in it at a moments notice.
I used to really respect Michigan State as a basketball program. At one time, they were a no non-sense, no excuses outfit. They were tougher than you and they wanted it more that you, and you knew it. Now, they are a program that diverts the attention from a truly remarkable basketball game last night to an excuse for their loss, and basically, refusing to acknowledge the result of the game as legitimate. I have never liked Tom Izzo or Michigan State, because they are Michigan State, but I have always respected the hell out of them for the type of program they were. It was the type of program that I wish Michigan had. I now could not be prouder of the distinction between the programs and the way it responds to wins and losses and the way it carries itself in regard to a worthy opponent. That was a great win for Michigan. There is no asterick, there is no qualifier. That is the headline after last nights game and I would have a lot more respect for Michigan State basketball if that was their bottom line after a really great college basketball game.
January 26th, 2014 at 11:10 AM ^
As for the crying that people have mentioned, the story on Izzo being at or near tears supposedly has to do with Appling playing hurt with back pain and a wrist injury that he's had since last month, so there were a few articles out there with quotes from the MSU locker room regarding that, so take it for what it is worth. So, it seems like it was tied to the "we had guys who stepped up" portion of the postgame talk, if indeed that is the reason he was upset.
If nothing else, at least ESPN - what I saw this morning anyway - did point out that both teams had players out due to injury, which several other outlets failed to mention. As for the use of this as a qualifier for the result by Spartan beat writers and other media on this particular occasion, it is difficult to primarily blame injuries really when you led as late as the four-minute mark in the second half, at least in my opinion. That same lineup - without Payne and Dawson - probably beats a lot of teams still.
January 26th, 2014 at 3:08 PM ^
Come on, man, I made ammends. Look ....they're kittens.....on crutches....in State uniforms. They have an adorable cast on their paw.....
January 26th, 2014 at 3:55 PM ^
Whose kittens?
January 26th, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^
them wrong. I love how Beilein said we're going to practice like we lost. He's looking to get better which is why he's so great and why this team continues to improve.
They have to go out and win to show these people Michigan is for real. I have no doubt, it will take longer for others.
I hate to quote Vitale but "Just win Baby!" is what they need to do. The rest will take care of itself.
January 26th, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 11:25 AM ^
Slightly OT: This could be Izzo's last chance to make a deep tourney run for a few years. Subtract Payne, Appling, and Harris from the team and you're left with ... what? Dawson, Valentine, and a few role players. (You could make the argument that both those guys are role players.)
There doesn't appear to be much in the pipeline, either. Izzo could very well end his career on a losing streak to UMich (or, at least a losing record over several seasons).
January 26th, 2014 at 11:30 AM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 11:32 AM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 11:32 AM ^
This is all hear when sparties whine about Payne and Dawson.
January 26th, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
In any contact sport, injuries are a common occurence. Coaches just deal with them, shuffling their lineups and providing players down the depth chart with opportunities to show their stuff. Just field the best five, eleven, or whatever number you need and go play.
People who after a loss say "well, if we'da had Boomer or Sledgehead or whoever in there, we woulda won," are routinely and properly dismissed as whiners and excusers, just like those who blame losses on the "bad calls" the officials made, "bad calls" being defined as calls that went against their team.
Such complaints are in the end pure speculation --- nothing more. If M had had Devin at the Wild Wings Bowl, would M have won? Who knows? And to balance the equation, if last night MSU had a healthy Payne and Dawson and M had a healthy McGary, would MSU have won? Again, maybe, maybe not. But it's worth nothing that even with a less-than-fully healthy McGary, M came very close to beating the number 1 team in the country, and MSU still had some plenty good athletes on the floor last night.
Bottom line is both teams fielded the best players they had available and M won. Any other interpretation of the win is stuff and nonsense.
January 26th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
Folks are maybe surprised because they've given Izzo too much respect in the past. Without the gift of Brian Ellerbe (and accompanying neglect of the UofM bball program), he'd just be one of many "good" coaches. He owes his everything to the dark era of Michigan basketball.
He's a guy that ran up the score when he had a chance and complained that we shouldn't have scored when we beat them and their pressing with under a minute to go (was it last year? maybe two years back?). He's a guy who has always complained about the refs (likely more than many fans). He's a guy who's always put himself in the spotlight. Bottom line, fuck Izzo. He needs to start acting like a professional. Tom...Respect your opponent; take your lumps; and get back to your wee pot o' gold.
January 26th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
Three years ago now actually. Darius Morris game: Get the f*ck of my court Sparty.
January 26th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
Burke leaves early for the NBA
Hardaway leaves early for the NBA
Harris comes back to play
Dawson comes back to play
....................................................
McGary is injured
Dawson is injured
Payne is injured
....................................................
Michigan is playing the game WITHOUT 3 NBA players who could have been playing in this game
Michigan state is playing WITHOUT 2 CBA players who could have been playing in this game.'
The game is AT MSU.
Knowing the above, who would you think should blow who out?
Bielien is finding a way to win with less incoming talented players on the floor YET AGAIN.
January 26th, 2014 at 11:52 AM ^
The biggest news items in the days leading up to the game were the injuries to Payne and Dawson. There was no way they weren't going to be a big part of the narrative no matter the result of the game. We were talking more about them here than our own team. Whether to play Payne was the toughest decision of Izzo's coaching life, after all.
In a couple of years, when talking about how Michigan has won 9 of the last 11 against MSU, no one is going to mention injuries.
During our NCAA tournament games there will be a lot of talk every game about what Michigan has been able to achieve despite losing McGary to injury.
I'm grateful we have coaches that win and lose with class. I'm grateful when our rivals are led by whiny drama queens. Details in the media coverage don't matter. The overall story is that Michigan is winning in remarkable fashion and MSU is hurting. The details don't bother me one bit.
January 26th, 2014 at 11:49 AM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 11:52 AM ^
I have scrolled this thread somewhat so forgive me if I repeat something but a group of teenagers and just twenties went to EL in front of 15,000 soon to be out of work farmers and won a game in arguably the toughest arena in the toughest conference in prime time against the #3 team in the country.
7-0. Next please.
January 26th, 2014 at 3:05 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
The selection committee doesn't care who played and who didn't. We won, that's it.
January 26th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
I'm bored of MSU.
January 26th, 2014 at 8:27 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
Payne was injured. Dawson was just an idiot. They had one injured center (as did we) and one dummy. We lost a basketball "Heisman" winner and another first round draft pick. Any whining from A2? Nope.
January 26th, 2014 at 12:24 PM ^
THAT has got to hurt up in EL. Interesting that this story line is not getting as much play.
January 26th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^
Then he was asked what adjustments coming out and he said something to the effect of "If Gary Harris didn't come out for the 2nd half, UM would be fine."
He's a class act and I could hear Izzo talk about having to use guys he hasn't used in a month and a non-sequitur regarding Harris being POTY in a post game news conference.
January 26th, 2014 at 12:39 PM ^
He mentioned that MSU two main players were injured and would not play though he had hoped they would have been able to. He wanted to play MSU at their best.
While it is true injuries are part of sports, one cannot overlook the impact the lost of critical players. Nadal lost today and the media pointed out he was hobbled and could not play his best.
FWIW, since McGary has been out Michigan has been unbeatable. Coincidence? Probably.
January 26th, 2014 at 5:41 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^
Payne and Dawson mantra is irrelevant. Teams can't expect to go through the season injury free, hece may the best "team" win. The way I see it Mcgary and Payne are a wash leaving the spartinas short Dawson which should not be an excuse. And if people want to use as such I could give zero fucks.
January 26th, 2014 at 12:46 PM ^
then Izzo starts whining.
January 26th, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^
My favorite part of the game was when the camera showed Izzo and it looked like he was about to cry. My wife, who in the past has not watched a lot of BB, says "Oh my God is he actually going to cry? It's just a game." I laughed for like 3 minutes straight before letting her know that is pretty standard for Izzo when things are not going his way.
January 26th, 2014 at 1:32 PM ^
My wife was watching the game with me and said the exact same thing! However, I just said that Izzo is a whiny little bitch and left it at that.
January 26th, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^
We'd say the same if it happened to us
January 26th, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
A win is a win and they are staring up at us this morning in the standings :)
January 26th, 2014 at 1:26 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 1:43 PM ^
Who exactly has Sparty sent to the NBA in recent years?
January 26th, 2014 at 3:09 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 5:10 PM ^
UM's point guards have owned him every game except one: trey burke's game against him @msu as a frosh, but i would call that game a push.
burke had two 20+ pt games and an 18 pt game; morris averaged 15 in his two games and walton had a better game last nite.
appling peaks at 11 pts (last year's blowout by msu) and his assist-to-TO ratio is barely over 1:1. and he shoots at about 30%.
January 27th, 2014 at 6:52 AM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
They can't use the early departure argument, because they don't have early departures. MSU hasn't had an underclassmen declare for the NBA draft since 2006.
January 26th, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^
Payne was on that track, but 2013 (last year B1g to this injury) have seen him be an all-American, and Gary Harris is obviously not in that category
January 26th, 2014 at 6:39 PM ^
In the nearly 20 years Izzo has been at MSU, he's had, I think, only 4 "true" early entrants: Richardson, Randolph, Taylor, and Brown. Beilein's had that many in the last four years.
January 26th, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^
January 26th, 2014 at 3:09 PM ^
Payne and McGary a wash and does Izzo (or any Spartan fan) really think Dawson would have played better than Ellis? Maybe a couple more rebounds, but no more.
Which also reminds of a comment from Vitale who said Payne and Dawson represented 26 points per game. I've always hated this logic. It's not like MSU would have scored 101 points with them playing. For them to get 26, they have to take away from other people scoring.
January 26th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^