More thoughts about osu scandal
After a day to digest all the crap happening in Columbus, I'm torn between jumping for joy for the frustration that fucking fan base is feeling or do I feel bad for the victim, the cover up of yet another scandal that rocks college football and this conference.
Aside from his personality and the fact he coached (coaches?) that damn school's football team, he is a talented coach. I've tried to have an opinion of whether we beat them any way we can vs. beating them when they (and us) are at our best. I was raised during the Bo/Woody era and I like competition. But then again....fuck 'em. My opinion seems to change once in a while on all that.
But a couple things came to mind during that time where I was caught between sleep and awake...
1. What sort of hit does the reputation of the B1G take, considering many sports writers consider us the strongest top to bottom conference and Meyer is one reason for it? He's raised the game of not only Michigan but other schools as well. Long term, is his dismissal good or bad for the B1G?
2. Who here thinks that there are other potential illegal/controversial/unsavory things going on with the walls of that program? (raises hand) So, there's other shit going on, but THIS thing is the one that trips him up and he gets his due regardless of which scandal takes him down. I say the greater good is served no matter HOW it happens, whether its tolerance of a coach's behavior, a player, a booster or an illegal recruiting practice or his past of questionable roster management.
What say you?
I’m more concerned about the lack of an edit button
That function is prioritized in the next sprint.
/agiled
Last I heard they are still building the user stories.
Dude, that's ugly! But as an SPC, I approve these burns!!
I guess we'll just have to wait for the next retro...
Jira crashed and we don't have backup
How can one possibly survive the scrum of all these agile references? Well done!
I think what you mean is:
"How kanban one possibly...."
I'll show myself out.
Something to keep in mind: this whole thing is a lot bigger and more important than just winning games. This is about moral integrity and doing the right thing.
While there is a part of us who root for the potential of an easier time to win, we need to keep proper perspective. In the end, fooball is JUST A GAME.
Whatever else we think of our program, remember:
-We don't have a coach with rumors about sweeping criminal behavior from his players under the rug, like Dantonio
-We don't have a coach who, intentionally or not, has a death on his hands, like Brian Kelly
-And we certainly don't have a coach who looked the other way in a domestic violence situation, like this.
With all that being said, let me answer your questions:
1.) This isn't about the B1G, this falls on OSU, period. Paterno affects PSU. Dantonio affects MSU. And Meyer affects Columbus. There is no "collective guilt" for the B1G to feel.
2.) There may be. Again, going back to MSU, things have been said ever since Dantonio showed up. It would be interesting to document the allegations. I have no doubt that, based upon Meyer's skeletons he had in the Florida closet, there were/are other things that may not be brought to light yet. That being said, all it took was this one thing to bring Meyer down. And from a coaching perspective, Meyer is going to be VERY difficult to replace.
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:05 AM ^
Meyer is easy to replace. Once again, an elite coach happens to be taking time off when OSU is in the midst of a scandal. And once again that coach has strong ties to Ohio. Stoops will suddenly feel like coaching again and OSU will barely see a blip. It’s sickening how lucky you can get with these things. I have no words for it and am convinced Stoops will take the job with ne’re a bump as OSU keeps it rolling.
August 2nd, 2018 at 11:32 AM ^
With regard to your response to the OP's point #1. I don't think he is asking about the perceived morality of the conference, rather the level and strength of football in the conference. I believe he is saying that Meyer coming to OSU has helped to raised the strength of the football in the conference as a whole and how the strength of football in the conference is perceived by the rest of the country.
August 2nd, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^
And with regard to this point, I think that unless OSU gets a coach like Stoops (like carolina blue and others have suggested) that those outside the B1G will feel that the strength of football in the conference will have diminished. I don't necessarily agree that it will, but I think that is what outsiders will think.
I think you can, and should, feel bad for the victim while also enjoying watching the OSU administration squirm and Urban go out in a ball of fire.
I'll beat OSU however we can. Sure I'd love Harbaugh to go head to head with Urban for the next 10 years and beat him every time when OSU is undefeated, but that is not realistic or likely. The Bo/Woody years are not likely to be repeated.
I wasn't celebrating last week when Zach Smith was fired and we found out about the abuse. That is when I felt bad for the victim. This is now the victim coming forward and trying to bring down the people that enabled him. I am celebrating that a lot of god awful human beings are going to lose their jobs and their fake personas are now being exposed.
With Meyer's background at Florida, he should've never been coaching again. Yet OSU hired him because they knew he'd win games. Gene Smith and that fan base have no morals. Just wait until Art Briles is announced as the head coach and they say he's a better person now.
Great article on ESPN's front page now about Meyer being a shitty person, all the bad things he did while at Florida, hiring Schiano and Wilson. I hope that he finally gets drug through the mud for all of his past.
Four years ago this month, I sympathized for Braxton Miller after suffering his season ending injury just before the start of football season but at the same time, I took major delight in the hell Buckeye fans were probably experiencing at that very moment. As it turns out, their second and eventual third string QB led them to a national title.
Seven years ago this month, I also took major delight in OSU fans pain over the school being forced to get rid of Tressell. Before you could blink twice, Urban Meyer is hired.
These a*sholes never get to experience pain for very long. They're the classic evil villain who NEVER gets their comeuppance.
Feel bad for the victim. That goes without saying. But also enjoy every one of the 8 seconds of pain OSU is in before the next best case scenario falls in to their undeserving laps yet again.
Let’s be honest that more people want him gone on this site because OSU will take a big step back (at least temporarily) and less about the victim and systemic lack of accountability and moral fortitude.
An unfortunate truth.
Eh.
Even if Michigan fans may have ulterior motives for wanting to see Meyer removed, that doesn't mean it's not also the appropriate thing for OSU to do based on Meyer's acts and omissions.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I’m genuinely sad we’re not going to have another 10 years war. I think Harbaugh has “it.” Meyer has it but is also a scumbag. There is joy in that he was called out for what he is and Lastly, to your point, Karma-wise OSU should suffer for Tressel’s cheating and everything Meyer has done. We want a strong OSU, but they deserve to be punished for there misdeeds. they joy is for Justice not for OSU being worse.
Whether we are in favor of Meyer's removal or not, the fact is that Meyer brought this on himself. I thought it odd during his appearance at B1G media days last week, that he would spend time talking about the firing of one of his assistants, and then found it even more surprising that a Buckeye blogger or reporter would followup his opening statement with a question about Smith's dismissal.
And when Meyer took it upon himself to lie at the podium about his apparent knowledge of Smith's past and even his wife's intimate knowledge of it, that set the stage for yesterday's bombshell report. So, if you think integrity is important, then this becomes a moral test for The Ohio State University on whatever grounds it chooses to act following its internal investigation of the case.
I won't presume to prejudge a decision while others are already making assumptions about the next head coach there and how this will impact the team this season. That's what we do. But it will all play itself out whether the Trumplandia choice is to keep Meyer on or fire him for cause with a large settlement. I don't care really whom they hire as interim coach, the Buckeyes have lots of talent and will be hard to beat at their place, as it always is.
In light of the issues that have challenged the coaching integrity of the B1G's most prominent coaches in recent years, I think it would now be obvious to the commissioner that he say something about where this league stands on the integrity issue and how that bears on the conference reputation. I hardly think this will occur but I do think it ought to.
Internal investigations never favor the target, and they can lead almost anywhere with buried mistakes of the past returning to haunt like a Dickens classic. But that's where we are headed now.
OSU fans will naturally feel victimized if their coach is taken from them by this scandal. But even backwards rationalization doesn't change the fact that Meyer chose hiding behind alleged lack of knowledge than acting more responsibly, and perhaps we will discover the real reason behind that choice. It is remarkable, however, that two of this school's winningest coaches since Woody could both be dismissed by the school under the current AD for the same inherent reason: failing to tell the truth.
I think those two extremes feed on each other...
osu takes a step back because Meyer is a good coach, but was doing so by cutting corners, letting his program have the appearance of being dirty or allowing bad behavior to continue. All these things are due to his lack of moral fortitude and accountability. I don't think the two things you mentioned are mutually exclusive.
It wouldn't be the Michigan fan base if we didn't try to drag ourselves down for something we weren't involved in... "A Michigan fan is never truly happy unless they're not happy". This is sadly true for so many.
Do we really think OSU is going to take a big step back from this? They have the same roster this year. They will still go at least 10-2 without Meyer. They have a 4 month head start on the coaching carousel and will likely have their next HC chosen by October to salvage recruiting before the early signing period.
I'm excited that a horrible human being is finally being called out for what he's done, instead of being treated like a God for winning football games.
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:00 AM ^
OSU was 7-5 under Fickell with the same players that Tressell had..next season Urban was undefeated with them. I could see players playing for themselves or not playing as hard for Day as they might. Also I would imagine Wilson and Schiano will be interviewing all season for new gigs, so there's potential for a lot of distractions.
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:01 AM ^
Also, there are only a handful of coaches that can recruit at Meyer's level. Kids aren't coming from all over the country to live in Columbus, they are coming for Meyer. This recruiting class may survive, depending on what else comes out, but the next class will suffer.
This is assuming of course that OSU actually fires him, which still isn't a foregone conclusion at this point.
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:09 AM ^
It'a like our two party system. One wants to win at all costs, the other wants to do the same but the right way. And when we see the other side failing the integrity test, we look at ourselves to make sure we're covering all bases while we continue playing to win. Guilt versus shame is ultimately the difference. Some might say strong versus weak. But strong men exercise their virtue in the face of adversity, weak men ignore that challenge for the easier road.
Virtue doesn't always triumph but it almost never gets you in trouble. That's the Michigan difference.
Yes and no. I remember how much this board wanted Briles to be fired when that went down. There is no rivalry there. Obviously the OSU thing is a big part of this. But I also think we like to see shitty people who hide behind the pious personas get exposed and get their comeuppance.
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:02 AM ^
+1 Insightful
Was listening to JT the brick last night(guilty pleasure) and they had Evan from TMZ Sports on and he was basically saying they are close to running a story today or tomorrow(if sources check out) about Urban that may be "bombshell" evidence against Urban Meyer. Unlike McMurphy, TMZ doesnt mind pumping out cash to get the dirt they need for a story. So this hole may be getting deeper and deeper for OSU.
This is why I think it's a lot more significant than people are saying that they put Meyer on leave. Think about how unusual it is for that to happen at any place, let alone a school that tried it's best to keep Tressel after he was fully exposed. I think there is a lot more to this story, and the school knows it, and they are trying to get ahead of the story to salvage whatever reputation they can.
/\. I believe Courtney when she says her husband could bring the whole program down. This is the tip of the iceberg and could lead in many directions.
Reporters are descending on Columbus in swarms.
Blood is in the water and people start to talk. OSU likely knows they need this to stop immediately and the best way to do that is to sacrifice Urban
"they are close to running a story today or tomorrow(if sources check out) about Urban that may be "bombshell" evidence against Urban Meyer."
I'm still waiting for the bombshell story about Dantonio. The majority of today's sports journalists are frustrated jock-sniffers whose main professional goal is hanging out with famous athletes and coaches, and very few of them want to dig up unpleasant stuff about the people they idolize.
Meyer/OSU are much bigger national names than Dantonio/MSU. Assuming getting the dirt on either requires roughly about the same amount of work, going after Meyer/OSU yields a lot more "bang for the buck."
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:02 AM ^
Yep. People were shaking their heads when Mork let a known racist back into his lockerroom and all anyone could talk about was Jim Harbaugh doesn't like chicken. When you're Michigan or Ohio State, you are an iconic program and everything is magnified. When you're MSU you are basically meaningless and things wash out with the news cycle if they get there at all.
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:19 AM ^
I have no proof whatsoever, but I seriously doubt dantonio allowed the player back on the team against the entire teams desire.
There had to have been a team vote.
That being said, didn’t dantonio do the same thing that Meyer did, lie about knowing of domestic violence from people under him?
So yes, I agree with you, it is magnified when comparing OSU to MSU. But I don’t think reinstating a suspended player is national news on the same scale.
No matter what happens, this scandal is going to have an impact on recruiting. It is a safe bet that OSU's next 10 years will not be as good as the last 10 years. Michigan is poised to be the next dominating force in the BIG!
"Michigan is poised to be the next dominating force in the B1G"
Why don't we first go a season where be beat both MSU and OSU?
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:32 AM ^
I'd like to point out that this was said without irony.
B1G reputation?
PSU
MSU
OSU
Even Rutgers
We can be snide about bagmen in the SEC and lack of educational standards at some D1A schools but srsly no conference has enabled filth to the level of our conference. In fact our division. Im surprised Delaney isnt looking to extend the division into Texas by adding Baylor.
That we know of. I'd have to seriously doubt that bagmen are the worst thing going on at Bama, Georgia, Clemson, LSU, etc.
Those are the darling programs of Jim Delany. I think we need a new commissioner. He is a 70 year old bat shit bilking the B1G for $20MM a year. This is all about money ... some think ego, others say "brand" ... but folks this stuff is the manifestation of greed.
"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton
The reputation I was speaking of was more of the football type, as compared to the one or two at the top of the SEC, who for some reason are defining the entire conference. Certainly the list I speak of would NOT include Rutgers...
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:07 AM ^
You left out UM. Recall the kicker who raped the student, and the OL who threatened to rape her again if she talked. The UM board, president, AD and head coach all knew, and did nothing. The incident happened at the end of kicker's freshman year, and he was kicked off team with 1-2 games left in his senior year. The OL was named team captain. Nobody in the administration was ever disciplined.
When it comes to something like domestic violence allegations, how they potentially affect Michigan football is really not very important.
Trever Matich spoke passionately about this including how his Dad abused his Mom. He called for an open fact finding but said people should go “medieval” on Urban if it comes out he covered this up. He was fired up. Google it.
1. I don't care about the rest of the B1G. Never have. I don't root for B1G teams in bowl games just because the play in the B1G.
2. I think Urban survives this with a 2 game suspension and is on the sideline when OSU plays TCU in Jerry World.
But we are tied to the B1G. The conference's overall reputation, especially with recruits, TV deals, branding, etc., is part of what enables us to be who we are. That was TCU's problem before they joined the BigXII. So we can't ignore the tirefires going on around us -- that soot has the potential of indirectly caking us too.
I was talking about from a purely football point of view, which is what I think the OP was referring to.
I was talking about from a purely football point of view, which is what I think the OP was referring to.
There is no joy in this.
I rather my team lost all of its games than have to support assholes like these.