More likely to survive: Dantonio or Izzo?

Submitted by Human Torpedo on January 28th, 2018 at 1:25 AM

For me, this is just a no-brainer. Izzo is only one who has built up enough equity with the university off the field (or court) via community and charity work to warrant a second guess on canning his ass. Dantonio appears even more tone-deaf and beligerant with how he's dealing with OTL report so one hint of evidence backing up the ESPN story could seal the deal for him

Comments

Brhino

January 28th, 2018 at 1:27 AM ^

I'll be the first to admit it if I'm wrong, but I don't see Dantonio or Izzo getting forced out over this.  Unless the new investations find paper trails showing them deliberately ignoring / actively covering up sexual assaults, they'll be fine.

Brhino

January 28th, 2018 at 2:17 AM ^

call me a cynic but I don't think State fires their most successful football and basketball coaches of all time simply because of a "culture problem".  There'd have to be real honest "a crime was committed by this specific individual we legally can't ignore it" for that to happen.

Alumnus93

January 28th, 2018 at 2:20 AM ^

And who'd have thought, that Michigan would fire the one guy who OSU feared in coach Moeller, the guy who annilihated OSU,  and for a disorderly evening while drunk.....

For those of you too young to know, OSU was petrified of Moeller...he crushed them... I think he was undefeated vs them, too.

old98blue

January 28th, 2018 at 9:27 AM ^

And thats the real reason they let Mo go. I loved Mo thought he was a great coach but he went 8-4 If you remember Red was busted for being drunk and pissing on a building but they didn't let him go and I'm glad they didn't. The media also made a bigger deal of Mo because well its football versus hockey

JonnyHintz

January 28th, 2018 at 7:04 PM ^

Cupboard wasn’t bare at all. Rich Rod just refused to tailor his schemes to fit the personnel and the style of play in the B1G.

Can’t blame Carr for Rich Rod deciding running spread option with pocket passers and power backs was a good idea. Can’t blame Carr for Rich Rod deciding to run a 3-3-5 with 4-3 personnel in a conference KNOWN for power running games.

1VaBlue1

January 28th, 2018 at 7:57 AM ^

Moeller was a good coach, and he probably should have kept the Lions job despite that FG (I was at that Chicago game - cool story, bruh).  He is the one that got the UM train of NFL QBs started.  But, like all things Bo, he had a tendency to shut down his high octane offense when things were getting tough.  Everybody remembers that FSU game as a beat down.  The first half of that game was pretty close, but Moeller shut it all down in the second half and tried to eat clock to the win by running the ball.  Nobody knows if UM would have been able to keep up, because FSU was supahotfire that game, but they never got the chance to try.

I don't know what happened that night, why he got sloshed.  But he did.  Its unfortunate, but he was treading some warm water becuase of the 8-4 seasons when that happened.  It was just too much.  If either Dantonio or Izzo experience some hardship like that right now, it might be too much to overcome.  But if they whether the storm for another 6 months, or so (somehow), they'll be just as safe as they were 2 months ago.

BuckNekked

January 28th, 2018 at 8:45 AM ^

You are thinking like LAS and Hollis are still there. The new president will have no ties to the University and will have a mandate to clean up the filth. Dantonio and Izzo are part of that filth. They may not be the grime coating the walls, more like the scum floating on top.

MRoseBowl89

January 28th, 2018 at 12:07 PM ^

Dantonio has multiple clips out there that just don't matchup to the facts and evidence.   I agree that there is a love of winning and Dantonio is very popular among MSU circles.  I get that.  But the assumption would have to be that the story does not advance and that victim testimonials aren't shared. 

They will be shared.  Then video of Dantonio saying things directly oppositve will be contrasted.  He will end up looking very badly.

Dantonio has 'doubled down' in the age of video and intense sports coverage:

"I have received many questions and inquiries about today's reports and latest reports. I'm here tonight to say that any accusations of my handling of any complaints of sexual assault are completely false," Dantonio said. "Every incident reported in that article was documented by either police or the Michigan State Title IX office. I've always worked with the proper authorities when dealing with the cases of sexual assault. We have always had high standards in this program, and that will never change."

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/22227960/michigan-state…

 

I don't think that will hold up.  That's just the tip of the iceberg.  Notice his choice word 'always'.  That leaves little wiggle room.  

MRoseBowl89

January 28th, 2018 at 12:00 PM ^

Briles did not survive at Baylor.  Jo Pa was quietly shuffled off into retirement.  I think consequences are coming. 

The problem is that Dantonio and Izzo has been highly successful and there has been a mechanism in place to protect them and 'spin' their images.  That works as long as MSU, local reporters and local authorities are the only ones 'in' on the trangressions.

What is different now is that MSU does not have control of the narrative any longer.  That means others will be deciding what takes place.  There will now be external pressures that did not exist before.  For 11 years, or so, they were able to pull this off.  No longer.

MRoseBowl89

January 28th, 2018 at 12:00 PM ^

Briles did not survive at Baylor.  Jo Pa was quietly shuffled off into retirement.  I think consequences are coming. 

The problem is that Dantonio and Izzo has been highly successful and there has been a mechanism in place to protect them and 'spin' their images.  That works as long as MSU, local reporters and local authorities are the only ones 'in' on the trangressions.

What is different now is that MSU does not have control of the narrative any longer.  That means others will be deciding what takes place.  There will now be external pressures that did not exist before.  For 11 years, or so, they were able to pull this off.  No longer.

Neversatisfied

January 28th, 2018 at 12:27 PM ^

Success on the field/court go a long way in regards to keeping your job, especially when the AD being ousted has nothing to do with actual wins/loses. Im suscribing to the izzo/dantonio being retained unless proof comes out that they were a part of a cover up in regards to their respective sports. Remember folks, this all stems from gymnastics, the correlation to the football and hoops team is kind of consequential.

Cruzcontrol75

January 28th, 2018 at 1:59 AM ^

To corroborate what was going on. In the OTL report she stated that several co-workers also quit due to the dissatisfaction from the environment of the Athletic Dept covering for MSU athletes. Or she may have enough on them with the victim’s statements for an outside investigation to find the athletic dept, campus police, EL police and maybe the prosecutors office complicit in a serious coverup.

What is compiled in the 3 year ESPN investigative report is damning. Even the optics of MSU resisting the fact finding of ESPN and being taken to and losing in the MI Supreme Court is terrible. If you have nothing to hide why redact the hell out of what you “handed over”.

Izzo and Dantonio May have enough fall guys to escape being directly implicated or not, time and a thorough investigation will tell. But the current and rightful groundswell of intolerance for sexual predators in Hollywood, politics, athletics & society in general will make it untenable for leaders of guilty departments and teams to continue.

Squash34

January 28th, 2018 at 2:19 AM ^

This is absolutely spot on. First off I think it seems pretty close to certain that every organization you mentioned did help cover-up and keep charges being filed.
Secondly, the landscape has changed since Baylor's scandal. People are simply not sitting around and tolerating scandals involving sexual assult.
I don't see how the coaches will be there much longer. Moreover, I think that people in law enforcement or the ADs office may have the investigation turned on them. Specifically, the former assistant DA that now works in MSU title IX.

Cruzcontrol75

January 28th, 2018 at 2:34 AM ^

For a Prosecutor to come at victims of crimes and shut them down, "allegedly", is reprehensible and criminal itself. For her to further her career at the institution that she should have been going after is something out of fiction. The sordid details are shocking on the heels of 150+ known victims of Nasser.

clarkiefromcanada

January 28th, 2018 at 2:38 AM ^

I think you are looking at this kind of short sighted. Sure, Sparty could keep them around but they are now included and stained by the Nassar/MSU cover up/abuse narrative. This content won't all come out in a day, or a week, or a month but slowly over time the facts will drip out. There will be investigation of their programs, there will be civil actions based on Allswede's content and discovery on that will occur. Good luck on the recruiting trail and week in/week out answering questions about this content. No admin at MSU will want that look going forward. If Dantonio sought to protect his legacy he would probably walk now and try to disappear like Simon and Hollis (surprising Dantonio doesn't read the tea leves on Hollis, btw.)

Dantonio's pride here will be the real problem; it comes before the fall (when he won't be coaching).

As to Izzo, he's locked in with the Appling/Payne narrative. No amount of cancer child supporting or goodwill is going to take that stain off. Better to resign and remember championship years. His legacy is tarnished in a way that even Pitino/Tarkanian is not. 

Arb lover

January 28th, 2018 at 10:51 AM ^

Kathy Redmond, founder of the National Coalition against Violent Athletes sent a formal letter in November of 2010 to NCAA president Mark Emmert, and the NCAA board of governors, including a copy of the letter sent to MSU President Simon.  Here's an exerpt from that letter:

For example, despite recent reports of sexual violence involving two Michigan State University (MSU) basketball players, one of which admitted to raping the victim, neither man was charged criminally or even disciplined by the school. An earlier report of similar violence involving two other MSU basketball players also went un-redressed. In the past two years alone, 37 reports of sexual assault by MSU athletes have been reported, but not one disciplinary sanction was imposed by school officials against any of the men involved.

I don't think anyone believes that the NCAA did absolutely nothing, and Emmert just sent an email to the board of governors admitting to the receipt of this letter, and stating that he was aware that university officials were already investigating.

She referenced cases of alleged sexual assault at MSU as examples of the broader problem on many campuses. The MSU cases were widely reported in the press and already being investigated by law enforcement and university officials...

Since Simon presided over that board as its chairman until earlier this month, it sounds like she reassured the NCAA board of governors and Emmert at the time that her office had investigated and that the accusations within this letter were completely false, so I think the NCAA walks away reasonably clean on this.

However, this is probably the date that does Dantonio and Izzo in as far as the NCAA is concerned, because after this date there is no reason for them to not be on notice to do the right thing which includes handing off complaints to appropriate university/police parties to fully investigating complaints, not having the coach do the investigation, issue discipline when appropriate, and conduct formal training with athletes. It sounds like even after this both coaches were trying to keep investigations in house, not issuing any discipline, and providing training to athletes that essentially reporting sexual assault/harassment would tarnish the spartain image.

The NCAA will probably wait for the state's Special Prosecutor to finish investigating "every corner" of MSU, so I would not be surprised if both coaches survive another season, but once the NCAA is formally notified that after November of 2010 these coaches continued to operate in this manner, they are both done. 

FatGuyTouchdown

January 28th, 2018 at 4:55 AM ^

is as good as gone. Izzo will leech around for a few more years before he has a heart attack yelling at the refs to call more fouls because some random 3 star is kicking the shit out of his lottery choice lineup. Also Dantonio having the player accused of sexual assault tell his mother as a form of punishment is disgusting. More is going to come out, this isn't going away. This just opened the door, now every single reporter is going to be investigating and looking for something. 

wolverine1987

January 28th, 2018 at 9:13 AM ^

Unless more comes out, they did nothing wrong that rises to the level of firing. We've all been critical of both, and Dantonio has been too lenient on some things, but as of today there is really no reason they should be fired.

Coming off like a defensive asshole isn't a firing offense, nor is not demonstrating the correct level of emotion or sympathy for the victims. Unless something comes out connecting them to Nassar's case, or showing that either covered up an assault, the only reason to fire them would be an over-reaction to this horrible story.