Mike Martin stock rising

Submitted by rockediny on January 24th, 2012 at 9:23 PM

I was watching clip about the Senior Bowl on BTN and Mike Martin was just mentioned as someone who was unheralded coming in but whose stock is rising. 

One question though: Would Martin really be described as "unheralded"? 

Other notes: Mike Adams is good, Alfonso Dennard's stock is dropping because of footwork, and Russel Wilson may go undrafted because of his height (things do not look good for Denard at QB).

Comments

Marley Nowell

January 24th, 2012 at 9:27 PM ^

I don't really understand why his NFL stock was low to begin with.  He's an "undersized" dude I guess but he holds up and splits the double-team, and is a great penetrator.  I could see him fitting very well as a DT or even a 3-4 SDE.

Magnus

January 24th, 2012 at 10:44 PM ^

He's a little short to be a DE in a 3-4.  At only 6'2", the 6'6"-6'7" NFL offensive tackles are going to be able to get their hands on him a little better than the guys he's been playing against in college.

I think he would fit best as a 3-tech in a 4-3 scheme, such as the Bears (or Lions).

JeepinBen

January 25th, 2012 at 9:11 AM ^

Like the one the Bears run (Chicago fan, it's what I'm most familiar with, can't discuss many other teams' schemes) one of the single most important positions is the 3-tech. A penetrating, disruptive rusher at the 3-Tech is what the defense is based around (that and a freak MLB like Urlacher, and a tackling machine at WLB).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_2

Basically if you can get a pass rush from your 3-tech to prevent the QB from getting enough time, you're set. This is the position that Brian has wanted MM to play forever, MM had to play the nose though because no one else could play it effectively. Imagine MM going 1-on-1 with a guard every play, you have to like MM's chances. It remains to be seen how well he'll do against NFL-caliber guards, but I'd be shocked if he goes past the 3rd round. I'd think he could crack many NFL teams' rotations as a 3rd DT.

Negatives: "Short" at 6'2'', "Only" 307#, Played a position in college he wont play in the NFL (NT)

Positives: Greg Mattison coached, 4 year contributer/starter at a major college program (don't discount this to NFL scouts), will be a combine monster (again, NFL scouts drool over this. I bet he breaks the bench press record for reps of 225), Mattison,  is tearing up the senior bowl, Mattison, and MM showed a lot of flexibility this past year. Defenses in the NFL like to do wacky things, like have everyone mill around the line of scrimmage, delay blitz your NT, drop linemen into coverage - all things Mattison had MM do this year.

dennisblundon

January 24th, 2012 at 9:40 PM ^

Damn. He never looked that short on the field. These combines fuck everything up. Guys used to say they were 6'1 and ran a 4.4 forty and everyone just went along with it. They just watched his film from the last 4 years and went off of that instead. What a brilliant idea.

bronxblue

January 24th, 2012 at 10:50 PM ^

That's pretty small, which surprises me given how effective he was behind a pretty big line at Wiscy.  

He's a second-day kid at best regardless, but measuring in below 6' means he'll probably have to give up on playing QB if he expects to see the field (or show some great accuracy that hasn't been shown before).

SamirCM

January 25th, 2012 at 8:42 AM ^

You do realize that men can grow slightly until they are around 23, so it stands to reason that he could possibly grow half an inch or so since when you met him. Also really? You don't believe he is 6 foot but is instead 5'11 based on the fact that you think he is 4 inches shorter than you? Dude, just say that you're 6'4" and if anyone questions it, add that you're 4 inches taller than Drew Brees. 

death by trident

January 24th, 2012 at 11:15 PM ^

You are right about that fact.  We don't base NFL stock on the exceptions.  The only thing it changes is Wilson's path to success as a quarterback (if he does find one).  He will have to go the "Tom Brady Hard Road to Glory" route, instead of the "Peyton Manning Crowned with Success Before He Ever Took an NFL Snap" route.

SFBayAreaBlue

January 25th, 2012 at 12:44 AM ^

that's not really a fair comparison. It would be more accurate to ask how many 6' or shorter quarterbacks who had prolific college numbers playing with and against NFL talent also bombed.  Bree's wil probably still be in the minority, but the percentages look a lot better when you consider their onfield production.  Doug Flutie comes to mind...

Term

January 25th, 2012 at 3:34 AM ^

2011-6th rd-Tyrod Taylor 6'1 - read decent things about him from practice, but those same things were written about about Troy Smith (i HATE typing that name)

2010-3rd rd-Colt McCoy - STUD college QB; not so much in Cleveland, but then again, F*** Ohio

2009-2nd rd-Pat White - Bwahahahahahahaha.  That is all

2009-5th rd-Nate Davis - Hell, maybe Harbaugh can turn him into a decent QB.  Even Alex Smith was less bi-polar than normal this year

2007-5th rd-Troy Smith - snow plowing?

2007-7th rd-Tyler Thigpen - if you cant win a starting job in Buffalo....

2006-7th rd-DJ Shockley - see a trend yet?

2005-4th rd-Stefan LeFors - best known as the son of the mall security guard in 'Mallrats'

2004-6th rd-Josh Harris - who?

2004-7th rd-BJ Symons - Mike Leach super pirate QB

wait, there were 17 (!!!!!!!) QB's taken in the 2004 draft?!?!?!?!?

2003-1st rd-Rex Grossman - "i once played in a Super Bowl"

2003-4th rd-Seneca Wallace - had one of the best forgotten TD runs by a QB in CFB history, so theres that

2003-6th rd-Brooks Bollinger - nothing witty to say here

2002-5th rd-Brandon Doman -went to BYU, so he was what? 32 when he was drafted?

2001-1st rd-Michael Vick - i only went back this far to include him and Brees.  Overhyped this year.  Dog Killer in a previous life

2001-2nd rd-Drew Brees - patron saint of 6'1" and below QBs (and of my fantasy team this year)

2001-2nd rd-Marques Tuiasosopo - man his last name is fun to say, no?

2001-6th rd-Josh Heupel - kinda like Gino Torretta, exceot with a better coaching career

QBs drafted in the last 11 years:140

QBs 6'1" or shorter in the same time frame: 18 (13 %)

so yeah, if you're a college QB 6'1" or shorter, good luck with that...........Sorry Denard, please familiarize yourself with the intricacies of WR play and kick returns

 

Term

January 25th, 2012 at 2:54 AM ^

Agree with Magnus; i can't imagine what it's like trying as a 6' QB trying to see over 6'5"-6'9" linemen.  I had trouble seeing over linemen my own size (6'1") at the D3 level.....of course, thats cuz i was terrible and should have been playing LB/DE.  Drew Brees in definitely the exception....

 

dragonchild

January 25th, 2012 at 10:03 AM ^

The lesson to learn from Drew Brees is that you CAN overcome a height disadvantage by just being very good at what you do.  But that's the thing:  Drew Brees did well in the NFL because he was very, VERY good.  Height isn't everything, but Russel Wilson isn't Drew Brees.

Same goes for Mike Martin.  Tougher to tell because defensive line is a much more physical job than QB, but I think he'll be effective.  I think he WON'T go in the first round and the teams that pass on him won't lose sleep over it, but whoever picks him up in the 2nd or 3rd round will be happy with his production.  He's not tall, but he's stronger than a lot of guys much taller than him.  He's quick, plays low and likes to engage his man so I doubt his height is as big a disadvantage as the scouts think.

That said, I think he'll be a functional DT in the NFL.  First off, he's gonna miss RVB, who in the latter half of this season was calling plays from the line.  Until RVB started doing that, Mike Martin was merely very good; RVB made him unstoppable.  Second, physically, the best linemen in the conference held their own against him, which sounds good at first (i.e., it took pro-bound linemen to stop him) until you compare that to Nick Fairley, who single-handedly stuffed high-octane offenses even though everyone knew he was coming.  THAT's the mark of a first-round DT.  Martin shined against teams like Illinois or Nebraska, not bad college teams to be sure, but in the NFL he'll be going up against the best offensive linemen of his generation, every week.  Teams will be tempted to move him to DE in a 3-4, but I honestly think he might surprise scouts as a functional NT where playmaking isn't expected.  He's strong and quick enough to burn OCs that think he's too small for the job.  Even NFL centers won't consistently handle him and his gap coverage is quick, so as long as he demands the double-team the linebackers of the 3-4 can do their job. . . and that's basically what a 3-4 NT does.

He might wind up an early second-day pickup by New England, as Belichick is known to value skills over raw physical attributes and Martin is great at executing schemes.  My only reservation is that Belichick is known to run his defenses into the ground.

denardogasm

January 24th, 2012 at 9:36 PM ^

Did anything ever come of that drug charge Dre Kirkpatrick got arrested for a couple weeks ago?  I'm hoping it's enough to scare teams off so the Lions can snag him.

myblueheaven

January 24th, 2012 at 9:43 PM ^

It is too soon to try and predict D Rob draft status or the position he will be playing in the NFL! Let us give him another year under Gorgeous tutelage and go from there.

VSS

January 24th, 2012 at 11:01 PM ^

I hope Martin does well in the football drills and Senior Bowl. I don't know how long his arms are, but maybe it's just because of how buff he is, it looks like he doesn't have very long arms and combined with the fact that he's not particularly tall or heavy, that could be something that the scouts nitpick. I also don't know how fast he will run in the 40 to convince people that he has the speed to play a DE in a 3-4, although a 3 technique is where he's probably best suited.

mtlcarcajou

January 25th, 2012 at 12:15 AM ^

but rave review from Tom Pelissero, the very good Vikes analyst on the Twin cities ESPN radio. He has him as his #1 standout guy so far, destroying ohio's centre.

Good for MM, keep killing that dude & rising.

KingGeorge17

January 25th, 2012 at 12:17 AM ^

Russel Wilson's speed and mobility make up for his height.  Drew Brees knows how to be mobile in the pocket and move around which is one reason that makes him great.  

DefenseWins

January 25th, 2012 at 12:20 AM ^

If Tom Brady has taught as anything as football fans, and sports fans in general, it is that measurables do not paint the whole picture.  You can't measure what's inside.