goblue16

November 26th, 2014 at 12:30 AM ^

This loss will benefit us in the future the freshamn need to know what it feels like to lose a tough game. The big ten is gonna be killer again. Except IU

OxfordBlue24

November 26th, 2014 at 12:30 AM ^

Kills me they let Donnal shoot that free throw at the end. Seemed like all he had to do was make a short dump pass to Spike or whoever else was standing right next to him. I know he was double teamed, but damn I wish he could have dished it to someone else to take those FTs.



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BlowGoo

November 26th, 2014 at 12:30 AM ^

The subjectivity of refs in basketball at both college and pro over the years has made bball so much more difficult for me to watch.

It's worse than tolerating MLB umps who think they deserve to have their own custom strike zone.

Prince Lover

November 26th, 2014 at 12:31 AM ^

Great game to watch. Obviously the outcome was not great but it was so entertaining.
AND, a good indicator that this will be a fun season.
And another "and", 4 years of Doyle will be fun. I like his potential, a lot.

gwkrlghl

November 26th, 2014 at 12:32 AM ^

One or two plays go differently and we're all posbanging and talking about how we're going to be a 2-seed. I'll take it, even with it being a loss. The refs basically decided pregame that Nova could handcheck everyone to death while simultaneously declaring we were not allowed to put a 5 on the floor.

This team is going to be good to watch going forward. I think they'll grow up in a hurry

Generic MGoBlogger

November 26th, 2014 at 12:44 AM ^

Here's the thing... I think this team has the full capability of being a two seed... That being said, a lot of things have to go right between now and March... Big 3 have to limit inconsistencies and disappearing like they did tonight for long periods, Donnal and Doyle MUST figure out how to play the five in a JB system, and Chatman must get more involved (he looked better tonight). It's easier to think they will be a five seed, but hell... I'm drinking the kool-aid.  This team has potential beyond imaginable for a JB system... It'll be a matter of putting all the pieces together.

ShruteBeetFarms

November 26th, 2014 at 12:35 AM ^

We got jobbed by the refs against an experienced team. There will be growing pains this year, but I have seen flashes of a good team. The team looked better in this game than last year's game against Charlotte.

This team will look different in March.

SHub'68

November 26th, 2014 at 12:35 AM ^

This team is pretty decent at this point, and is only going to get better. I really love how they came roaring back when it looked like we were headed for a blowout. Some poor defensive positioning and reach-ins instead of box-outs took away our big men and our momentum.

M-Dog

November 26th, 2014 at 12:38 AM ^

They were over-matched down low anyway, and then when they all got in foul trouble they got tentative. 

Not much you can do when they call it like that.  Just try to avoid the obvious stuff so as not to get a cheap one.  Don't forget, Mitch had that problem early in the season and he turned out OK.

Smidgens

November 26th, 2014 at 12:37 AM ^

That missed free throw and awful inbounds play at the end... blah well we played well for most of the game until that, should be getting better each week. Can't wait til B1G play starts!

alum96

November 26th, 2014 at 12:40 AM ^

If anyone other than Donnal had got that inbounds pass I think we win. 

But bigger picture this was a very good game for us - we played horrid in the 1st, and you can see why Nova gets so many steals.  Our ball possession right now is not at levels of the prior 2 years, lots of turnovers to pressure. 

But this was a team of 5 SR/JRs and 2 SO against our 2 JR 2 SO and a bazillion freshman.  We will be better in March, right now these are 2 very evenly matched teams and we are WAY ahead of where we were a year ago at this time when we looked lost at times with Morford at center, Mitch trying to be healthy, and a freshman PG.   Very encouraging.

Thoughts on freshman - DJ Wilson should be redshirting, he is not physically ready for the Big 10.  We saw that tonight.   Chatman had some good signs tonight.  MAAR is basically just insurance policy.   Basically it seems like Chatman and Doyle will be the 2 main contributors this year from this class and maybe Dawkins will come in later in the year as he has the physical makeup to contribute.  WIlson needs a year with Sanderson and 15-20 lbs.

Nothing to be unhappy about - one made basket or miss by Nova during 40 minutes doesnt change anything other than our feelings the next 60 minutes.  Those were 2 evenly matched teams and most likely the most intense defense (outside of Syracuse) we will face this year.

SAMgO

November 26th, 2014 at 12:41 AM ^

The non call on Walton was brutal

BUT- to be fair, both Donnal and Doyle took stupid, freshman fouls and we ended the first half 0-10 from the field. If we played a little better, which would have been totally reasonable, we wouldn't have found ourselves at the refs' mercy.




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Mr. Yost

November 26th, 2014 at 12:41 AM ^

Walton: No problem with him looking for his shot. But he has to make sure the team is set before he does anything else. Still a work in progress.

LeVert: I still think he's an elite #2 / All-B1G player...but I don't see him as a #1 option/B1G MVP like Burke and Stauskas. He's progressing though. I just would've liked to see him demand the ball when there is 4 seconds left and his team needs a 3. Don't leave it up to Max B to throw it halfway down the court. Go get it at the top of the key and dribble it up yourself and get a shot off. He goes missing too often and I think sometimes it's just because he's playing his old role in the offense and taking what the defense is giving him. It was nice to see him create his own in the last 2 minutes. We need more of that.

Irvin: I personally think by the end of the year he's going to be a problem for a LOT of teams. As long as he's not playing the 4. IMO he's got a legit shot to turn into everything we hoped GRIII would have. And I do think he's got that alpha dog in the making personality that LeVert - who's nicer and quieter lacks. Personally, I think Irvin carries this team back to the Sweet 16 and beyond 15-16. This B1G season is going to make him tougher, and a tougher Irvin is going to be a nightmare...next year.

Chatman: Nice to see him hit a shot. But like I said in the OPEN thread. He's a kid that should be the 6th or 7th man, but we lost McGary and Horford. So we HAVE to keep the expectations low. For a 7th man...you can see the potential and he's going to be fine. As a starter, eeek, it's going to be a rough non-conference. Really wish he was exclusively a SF/PF.

Donnal: Still a year away and he's a guy that I don't mind starting because Doyle is just going to pick up early fouls if he starts. Just like A.D.H.D. freshman McGary. However, Doyle should get the starter's minutes. Donnal is just too soft. He's marshmallowy soft. I also wish like hell they'd give him minutes WITH Doyle and play him at the 4. He'd be so much better.

---------------------------------

Doyle: High energy, walking Red Bull, best post player we have. Not going to rely on him for more than 20-25 a night though. Donnal and Max B are going to have to play better.

Spike: I think he needs to play PG when he and Walton share. Still such a luxury. Not a threat to Walton, but the perfect compliment.

Max B: Awful game, shouldn't be relied on for more than 8 mpg. Would love to keep him at 5 hard solid minutes. Anymore more is icing.

Wilson: A year away.

MAAR: 2 years away.

Mr. Yost

November 26th, 2014 at 12:44 AM ^

But he's GOT to recruit more true post players.

Last year we would've been fine if McGary doesn't get hurt, so you can't blame that on him. And I suppose this year we would be fine with McGary, Horford and Doyle.

But we can't just have 1.5 guys (Max B as the .5)

...Dawkins and MAAR seem great, but I'd trade one of them for another true center in a heartbeat. I hope we've got a couple guys coming in 2015.

Mr. Yost

November 26th, 2014 at 1:05 AM ^

Donnal is a stretch 4, he's a long way from being an on the block scorer.

Morgan, McGary and Horford were just that they past 2 years.

Wilson is a project and a 4 all the way. Although he's got the potential to be a solid shot blocker and contributor when he gets more weight and experience.

I'm talking about POST players. Guys who live, eat, shit, sleep in the post. Guys who when they have the ball outside the arc, there is no threat to shoot.

We don't need a team full of them. We don't even need 4 of them like most teams. That's not Beilein's style.

But we need 2-3 guys that fit that mold. A versitile 2-way (offense/defense) center, a shot blocker and a bulldog. If we had those 3 roles filled with all of our shooters and stretch 4's and PF's that are really guards (Chatman/GRIII), we'd match up with ANY one.

Like I said, just add McGary and Horford. You have your 2-way guy in McGary, and your taller shot block type (even though he's not super athletic) in Horford. And you have your bulldog in Doyle. 

Last year we were McGary away from a Final Four. Horford and Morgan ALMOST got us there.

I just think you have to be flexible enough because you're going to run into these teams that can't shoot, but they're just going to bully you. And you leave the entire game up to the refs when you do that if you can't match up.

Mr. Yost

November 26th, 2014 at 12:57 AM ^

Say we just lose LeVert and Bieldfelt...we also have banked a scholarship (we have 12 and the limit is 13).

If I'm Beilein I take a true C, a true bull/bulky PF and a PG.

Also is Hatch on scholarship? If not, or if we get some kind of waiver...then I take another wing player with 4th spot.

We'll need the C to pair with Doyle, who's never going to go extreme minutes if he plays the way he does now. He'll get too tired or always be in foul trouble.

I think Beilein should always carry 1 bulldog. Just 1, get him as a freshman...when he leaves as a senior, get a new one and start over. But always use 1 scholarship on a post player who's just not going to take shit, who's going to scare some people, who's going to rebound.

J-Mo played that role his final 2 years (he was just pudgy kid the first 3). We need someone who's going to play Barkley for us.

Again, we don't need more than one. The kid may never start, but it would be a valuable asset to have on a Beilein coached team. An old Big East type player.

Finally, we need a PG because I personally think Walton leaves early and Spike is a senior next year. Recruit a true PG to learn from them.

We've had luck with the freshman PG, but if you recruit a kid to play behind them you have some insurance in case that freshman doesn't work out as planned.

alum96

November 26th, 2014 at 1:05 AM ^

He tried to recruit 2 of the country's top centers last year and was rejected by both.  You are making  it sound like he is not trying to get these players.  He even said after the UK game we need more players who play above the rim.  Players have to want to come here - he cant wave a magic wand and create these players.

That's the b**** about Mitch leaving and Horford leaving.  You can bet the people from Duke Kansas Carolina and the like are using that against UM.  Mitch with 1 full healthy year of displaying how a big man could thrive in this system would have helped Beilein tremendously.  Instead the meme of this offense is built around guards/wings (which it is) and an elite big man won't thrive can be portrayed.   You heard Dakich - the culture for most people now is understandably how do I get to the league quickly.  You can make the case for guards and wings at least that this offense gets you to the league quickly.  Mitch basically had a 10 game stretch and that's all we have to offer right now at the 5 for recruits to buy.

Last point, it is difficult to find good big men.  And if you are lucky to get 1 you might only get them for 1 year in the current NCAA.  See Noah Vonleh who was fine but nothing special at Indiana and only lasted 1 year.  Wilson is basically the type of project you are going for if you dont land a Zimmerman and he not the type you insert into the lineup as a freshman - its just bad timing this year with Mitch and Horford both leaving. 

Mr. Yost

November 26th, 2014 at 1:27 AM ^

We found MAAR and Dawkins late.

Purdue has a kid who's averaging 18.5 minutes and 13.3 ppg and 5.3 rebs. He wasn't an elite player that went to Duke or Kansas or Kentucky.

Cincinnati has a freshman who's giving them 15+ mpg...Maryland does too!

I literally just went down the list of centers on Scout.com...

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=45&yr=2014

I couldn't find anyone who just wasn't contributing to his team.

So I think that's just wrong. We found guards late in the game, I think you can find a post who may not ever be a starter, but he can carve out a role and give you some valuable minutes, rebounds, fouls, etc.

And not a McLimans type big man, a watered down version of the stretch big man you wanted to have. No. Go find a kid who can't shoot a lick, but he can get some boards and match up with these beasts down low. If that's his only role, it's worth it. You don't need a bunch of those types, you don't even need 2.

But we could've definitely found another true center if we wanted.

jsquigg

November 26th, 2014 at 1:07 AM ^

For some teams playing Doyle at the four would work, but at Michigan he will be exclusively a five.  People can bemoan Beilein all they want, but there's no way he is going to trade quickness and shooting for size.  It would just clog his offense up, and aside from the Oregon game they've been defending and rebounding well enough (and they still won the Oregon game).

alum96

November 26th, 2014 at 12:42 AM ^

Also have to say a game like this with Horford giving you 15 minutes, I think we win.  Max could not match up inside and at times it is unfair to ask him.  I realize he is probably in a better offense for him down at UF but its a bummer for us as a program not to have that experience, and bulk.

GoBlueRandy

November 26th, 2014 at 12:42 AM ^

If irvin pump fakes, he gets hammered and wins it at the line. Not criticizing him at all for going up right away, but maybe something he learns from that situation with still 7 seconds left.




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JayMo4

November 26th, 2014 at 9:23 AM ^

Pump faking may have been tricky, as it's a split second thing and he's catching the ball on the move.  I do think that maybe if he hangs in the air a split second and goes for the layup instead of committing to the dunk, he could have made it.  Maybe.  But at the same time, how often is the defensive player going to make that type of play?  There's a lot to second guess in this game, but it's hard for me to be too critical of Irvin here.

jsquigg

November 26th, 2014 at 12:43 AM ^

I want to preface by saying that Michigan will grow a lot from this game and they showed once again how tough they are in the face of adversity.  I have no big picture issues.

With that said, I have never seen such God awful officiating on the two critical plays in the game.  The Michigan player gets run over with a shoulder to the chest before Nova hit the go ahead basket and Zak Irvin gets his head taken off with no whistle.

I don't like to complain a lot about officiating, but it seemed like the refs had a different standard for both teams on foul calls.  Michigan, a team which is coached to fucking AVOID fouls gets called for anything above breathing on guys while Villanova spent the game grabbing and bumping with little called against them by comparison.

To complete the shit sandwich, Villanova is a good team that plays very good defensively and I love M's resilience.  Donnal should have given the ball up before he got fouled, but this team stilll should have won if the refs hadn't decided the game by turning fouls off in the game settings for the decisive plays.  I'm all for not bailing guys out, but Michigan was literally punished for having great positioning on both of the aforementioned plays.  This game is why I hate the cliche' about refs not deciding the game down the stretch, because they did decide the game by not calling a damn thing.

jsquigg

November 26th, 2014 at 12:56 AM ^

To each their own, but usually a shoulder to the chest is a charge and getting hacked on the arms is a foul.  Admittedly, I'll have to look at it again and maybe I'll see differently.  I do agree with you that the bigs brought a lot of the fouls on themselves, but Villanova was more physical defensively and got the benefit of the whistle.  Shit happens. 

Perkis-Size Me

November 26th, 2014 at 12:43 AM ^

Welp, shit happens. We should know that by now after barely beating FSU this time last year, and then losing to Charlotte. I have complete faith in Beilein to get this team ready to play to its full potential come March. A few takeaways:

-This team does not quit. Villanova could've ran away with this after halftime, but a very young team hung tough against a Villanova squad that clearly was outmuscling them from the start. I'd rather have tough losses to very good teams than blowout wins against cupcakes. Games like these will go a long way towards preparing our players come March.
-Michigan was in the same position this time last year, if not a worse one. We barely beat a meh FSU team, and shit the bed against Charlotte. Last season turned out alright. Tonight we played a very hard-fought game against a very good Villanova team with inexperienced, undersized freshmen. Beilein, in my book, has earned the benefit of the doubt. We'll be alright.
-While I have complete faith in Beilein's system, I do wish he'd recruit more big men. Yes, I understand his system is more guard-friendly, and my knowledge of basketball X's and O's is nothing compared to Beilein's, but I can see we just continue to get mauled on the boards. Tonight would've been a night where we could've desperately used McGary's help. We don't have a legit big man coming in until Teske in the 2016 recruiting class. Maybe this is a trade off for Beilein's system, but unless Doyle, Donnal and Bielfieldt take big leaps in the next month or so, we're going to continually get beaten badly on rebounding.




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jsquigg

November 26th, 2014 at 12:51 AM ^

I don't get the panic about bigs.  We go three to four deep at the five with three of those guys being freshmen who will improve.  Beilein doesn't need to recruit more big men.  We've seen how clogged the offense gets when he puts two big guys on the floor together.

Michigan as a program is about offensive efficiency and I'll let the guy who's been successful throughout his career keep on doing his thing.  The young guys are only going to get MUCH better and the defense and rebounding issues look like they have been addressed (I think the defense is significantly better this year).

What is insane is that Coach B is FRUSTRATED by how far the freshmen are right now, and the team is 4-1 with a win over Oregon and going toe to toe with the Big East favorites and the officiating crew Jay Wright bought.  This team will be good.