is Michigan now Notre Dame under Charlie Weis?

Submitted by newfoundhbomb on November 23rd, 2013 at 3:44 PM

hey guys Dan Wetzel tweeted this after the game.  right now i would have to agree.  Hoke says all the right things, can get a decent amount of good recruits, but the games are awful.  what do you think?

 

Dan Wetzel @DanWetzel 1m

The more you watch Michigan the more it reminds of Charlie Weis Notre Dame. Big recruits, big talk, not good football

Comments

alum96

November 23rd, 2013 at 5:19 PM ^

I wrote that exact same thing on these virtual pages 3 weeks ago.  This is almost a carbon copy of Weiss.  Come in with Willingham's players, have a good first 2 seasons, start to bomb out in season 3 as the writing begins to hit the wall, and then do very mediocre in season 4 and 5.   All while recruiting "great" classes - that were not developed very well.

The only difference "could" be season 5 here if Shane is the truth, as all the rest of Hoke's recruits will be in place, and established.  Weiss similarly had great recruiting classes and the team was not coached up, and out played by teams of similar ability.   

Season 4 here will be very similar to Weiss and there is a very real chance Hoke is let go in 12 months because no matter what the kool aid is on this board, the OL will be marginally better at best, which is still a disaster, the best WR will be gone, (and now Funchess cannot catch in cold weather), and Gardner today (maybe he is hurt) looked bad as the OL actually gave him time in pass protect.  And Borges will still be here, Hoke wont fire him.   So again all we have is year 5, and I dont know if Hoke survives because even as MSU takes a small step back next year they will physically manhandle this team, as will OSU.

I realize people think we were "oh so close" versus PSU and Nebraska, but we were very close to losing at Akron at home, NW on the road, and UConn on the road.  This could be a 4 win team right now and probably deserves to be a 5-6 win team, and has gotten progressively worse as the year continues.   Even the run defense - which was stout all year - regressed today.  

phork

November 24th, 2013 at 12:04 AM ^

Also Willingham recruited arguably a couple of the worst classes in ND history.  With almost no OL.  So while Weis won with Davie/Willingham kids, don't give Willingham any credit.  He ruined ND football and did it again in Washington.  Weis' 3-9 campaign is directly attributed to Willingham.

evenyoubrutus

November 23rd, 2013 at 4:22 PM ^

If we are going to look at it that way (which is totally fine by me) Michigan has 5-6 way-too-lucky wins in the last three seasons. I understand luck is a part of football, but to have games like NW this year and last year, the Sugar Bowl, the ND game from 2011, you can't build a program counting on that kind of luck for a couple wins each year.

Ty Butterfield

November 23rd, 2013 at 3:48 PM ^

Yes, but it is even worse because of David Brandon. He won't get rid of Hoke and even if he wanted to no good coach will take this job because Brandon watches film with the coaches every Sunday. What AD does that? Brandon is Jerry Jones.

alum96

November 23rd, 2013 at 6:00 PM ^

And you realize they had two 11 win seasons before that right?  I love how people put down a program which has had 3 of the past 4 seasons equal to our 1 best season in the past 7 years.  They have the best unit in the entire conference and a rapidly improving "weak unit" and unlike the hopes and dreams of much of the UM fan base are not a product of "1-2" lucky recruiting classes led by a NFL QB named Cousins.  They have built a system and it looks like we now have Wisconsin 2.0 in our own backyard.   And Wisconsin goes 7-6 or whatever every so often in between a bevy of excellent seasons.

bdsisme

November 23rd, 2013 at 3:49 PM ^

It's worse -- Al Borges only has a "decided schematic advantage" when he has Jason Campbell, Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown on the field at the same time.

BlueArcflash

November 23rd, 2013 at 3:49 PM ^

More Florida under Zook. There are SEVERAL great young coaches who would come to Michigan and win consistantly with this team going forward. Hoke and his staff are not doing that.

jmblue

November 23rd, 2013 at 4:04 PM ^

A lot of those "great young coaches" turn out to be not so great when they come to a bigger conference and face better competition.  They also aren't guaranteed to prefer Michigan to some of the other schools that are going to have openings.

Hoke is an oustanding recruiter, and he is a delegator - he's willing to give his coordinators room to maneuver.  Those are good qualities.  I think we can win with him, as long as (like Beilein) he's prepared to hire the best assistants possible.

 

 

BlueArcflash

November 23rd, 2013 at 4:18 PM ^

A lot turn out better than expected and would be infinitely better than the trash we've all been subjected to for the past 2 years. Great head coaches don't "delegate" their way to 5 embarassing losses, they recognize when gameplans are shit and take control to make needed adjustments. Hoke's clapping isn't getting it done.

I Like Burgers

November 23rd, 2013 at 5:25 PM ^

This is the big difference between Michigan and Ohio State right now.  Both schools went through a coaching change around the same time.  Ohio State went top shelf and hired a proven coach with a history of championships.  Michigan went bargain shopping and pulled a guy with no track record of winning at a major school and just hoped that he would figure it out.

And its all turning out about the way that you would expect.

alum96

November 23rd, 2013 at 6:11 PM ^

The harsh reality is there are only a few top end coaches.  And frankly we were turned down by a few.  This is the part "Michigan fan" is still in denial about.  The "best fit" coach went to the NFL, and didnt give this job a second thought - cannot blame him as he was a guy who wanted to go NFL.  The other best fit was undermined (apparently) by the Carr camp in a messy national nightmare pre RichRod.  Those are the only 2 "Michigan Men" who are in the top tier or near it.

But when the Schiano's of the world don't give UM a serious consideration - you have to ask what the hell is going on.

LSAClassOf2000

November 23rd, 2013 at 6:54 PM ^

I believe the fact that he is a delegator is to our advantage as well - if there is a change at any point in the staff, any hire might enjoy that level of freedom. To tie that into Weis, people might recall that Charlie only recently gave control of the offense to co-coordinators and once considered coaching from the booth as a head coach. If nothing else, Hoke is involved with operations but gives his staff the freedom to operate. That's part of the foundation for the culture of this staff. 

NFG

November 23rd, 2013 at 3:53 PM ^

Yes. Simply put, when compared against one another. Sad isn't it? Brady is a great guy, and a mediocre coach at best. Great recruiter, but knows nothing on offense, so he gives Al the reigns and we all see what is happening. I know it is harsh, but I'm with MgrowOld, time for a change. We have the roster to win, we just need the leadership and guidance.

mGrowOld

November 23rd, 2013 at 3:53 PM ^

Predictions:

1. We get absolutely embarrassed next week by OSU.

2. Lots and lots of season ticket holders & donars withhold dollars at seasons end

3. Hoke makes no changes in his staff - he's loyal & the team is young

4. 2014 is a carbon-copy of 2013 - 7-6

5. Hoke is fired after 7-6 season in 2014

Hit reset kids and start all over again.  Sigh......