Michigan Monday From The Ozone

Submitted by Nosce Te Ipsum on November 5th, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Reading what an opposing fan's view of the situation is is something that I value because their perspective is radically different than mine a lot of the time and can offer insight that I just can't see. This is an excellent write up and I highly recommend it. One of the best I've read. As a side note I would also recommend the posts from OldManCoyote on Scout if you have a sub. The links to those are below as well.

 

 

http://theozone.net/football/2013/MichiganMondays/Week_eight_MSU.html

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=162&f=1088&t=12261283&p=1

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=162&f=1088&t=12261754

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=162&f=1088&t=12262026&p=1

Comments

LSAClassOf2000

November 5th, 2013 at 6:31 PM ^

"Brady Hoke has worked hard on the recruiting trail to get their numbers up, and he's certainly succeeded, but that's all his offensive line recruits are right now – numbers."

That's true, but as others have mentioned here, aside from Lewan and Schofield you don't have the experience or depth from those latter Rodriguez classes that you would have in a world where Michigan had not been a program in seemingly endless transition. We do suffer some because of this. It isn't the entire explanation, but I think it is a factor. 

PurpleStuff

November 5th, 2013 at 6:52 PM ^

Last year we had 3 returning starters and two 5th year guys who had been 4-star recruits.  It was implied they struggled because they just weren't as talented as these awesome dudes Hoke is bringing in.  The coaching staff regularly talked about how close they were to putting Kalis in last year and how Bryant probably would have started if not injured.

This year those guys got benched for Joey Burzynski.  And then for a true freshman. 

Ideally guys like Fisher and BWC would be on this starting line, but all Hoke and Co. had to do to bridge the gap is find 2 serviceable starters in 2+ classes full of blue-chip recruits.  And it isn't like the team has other holes.  An okay interior o-line sees us looking toward a big showdown with OSU.  Judging 2013 may be unfair, but it looks like Bryant (and only going after one guy) and the 2012 class are a big whiff at this point.  Or we have the worst offensive coaching staff in the country.  Either way, not good.

SFBlue

November 5th, 2013 at 6:41 PM ^

Overstatements abound, as would be expected, especially concerning the supposed lack of player development (ignoring Jake Ryan, Ramon Taylor, Brendan Gibbons, Frank Clark).  It is too early to assess the molding of 4 and 5 star talent brought in by Hoke over the last years, and the discussion of player development smacks of butt-hurt from recruiting battles Michigan has won since then.  This is simply cleverly disguised propaganda rather than any sort of neutral analysis, or a 'fresh' perspective.   

SFBlue

November 5th, 2013 at 7:07 PM ^

The sour grapes would be the recruiting battles the Buckeyes lost in 2012 and 2013.  The author implies that Michigan is doing nothing with all this "clay," ignoring that it is way to early to make this type of assessment (and also that some big recruits like Funchess are doing just fine, thank you).  It's a hopelessly slanted piece of sophistry that does nothing but elaborate obvious points and poke fun at Michigan's players.  If you find yourself agreeing with this dreck, you have lost hope.  I am not there. 

PurpleStuff

November 5th, 2013 at 7:25 PM ^

Where are the stars (not of the recruiting variety)?  Pipkins and Wormley look solid, but they aren't as good as, say, a guy like Leonard Williams at USC from the same class.  Funchess is good.  Ross and Wilson are solid.  Henry looks like he will be.  There's enough secondary depth to be decent.  The 2012 o-line class looks like a total miss that we'll be lucky to get a few serviceable upperclassmen out of (yes, if any of these guys was a future star he would be something short of terrible/benched right now).  Derrick Green looks great if everyone would just get out of his way. 

Maybe Peppers or Thomas move to RB and spark something.  Maybe the 2013 o-line class is awesome across the board.  Maybe Morris is a Heisman Trophy level guy.  That's a lot of maybes, and without them coming true we look like Iowa.  If I was them I would have zero fear of our program in the short or long term.

mh277907

November 6th, 2013 at 8:36 AM ^

I am not sure if it is "sour grapes" as, to be honest, there isn't much to be sour about in Columbus right now. And it certainly isn't about recruiting as OSU is doing just fine with that. Obviously, there is a little bit of snark to the article but it is from an OSU site so what did you expect? I expect and see the same things when I come to MGoBlog and read about the Buckeyes. And the author did mention some positives- specifically mentioning that Funchess has improved. But he also states that Funchess has improved after taking on a different rule with the team, which is true. He mentions that Countess and Taylor are one of the better CB tandoms in the league but, as third year players, they SHOULD be contributing. The author asks the question, "is there a single position on this team that is ahead of schedule?" That seems to be a fair question but I don't follow UM closely enough to answer it. Maybe there is a position that the author fails to mention?

alum96

November 5th, 2013 at 7:08 PM ^

The "lack of player development" meme is now implanted into the ground and it is a very dangerous thing that will become a negative recruiting theme for opposing coaches if evidence doesnt surface to the contrary ....soon.  The lack of 1st through 3rd round NFL talent on this team over 6 years (of course not all on this staff) aside from tiny slivers such as Graham, Martin, Lewan and perhaps Devin and JMFR will be waved and it is critical the staff does not miss on this class of 2012-2013 in terms of taking them serious places.  And by serious places I dont mean 3rd place in our division and losing by 14 to OSU at home  in 2015.   The lack of NFL pipeline on this team in the past half decade versus Carr era is staggering.

SFBlue

November 5th, 2013 at 7:20 PM ^

Yes, this lack of development criticism goes all the way back to Lloyd Carr.  I remember the hullaballo after the 2005 season when Michigan did not have many guys drafted from a young 7-5 team.  But Hoke has been the coach only two and a half years, and in that time none of his recruits have even been eligible for the draft.  There is simply not any meaningful data here.  For what it's worth, there has been an uptick in the last two years with Denard, Hemingway, Martin, Campbell, Molk, and Kovacs (of course, these are Carr and Rodriguez guys).

alum96

November 5th, 2013 at 9:28 PM ^

I agree it was an issue with Carr too.  Some players were not utilized to their highest degree here, some guys you see after 2 years in the NFl and they looked like compeltely different players vs when they played for Carr.  That said they got drafted pretty early.  A few of the guys you named recently were 4-6th rounders and while a major achievement we used to get a lot more in the early rounds.  We need to be flushing through guys in the 1st 3 rounds to show - yes we can take you to the finish line Mr. #83 in the country recruit.   We shall see in a few years... but other than Funchess I am not seeing a lot of guys who have taken major steps from 1-2 years ago on this team.  Gallon I think was Gallon - he just needed a QB who would throw.  I cannot think of anyone else on offense who is an early round NFL talent other than those guys and Lewan who was a projected stud 3 years ago.  On defense - JMFR and maybe Ross. Even Ross who is "a good player with upside" I had as my break out players of the year..... and I believe the coaches had him on the bench to start the last game v MSU.  Maybe it is all in the 2012-2013 classes - we'll see, but it requires a lot of leaps of faith to believe suddenly there is a 180 happening between the 2011 class and every class after.

BILG

November 6th, 2013 at 10:38 AM ^

Both with only 1 national title despite pulling in top 10 classes every year.  With Brown it's even worse, IMO, as they seem to alway have a top 5 class, and while both schools pretty much recruit themselves to at least a top 10 status, Texas is so loaded with talent you usually don't even have to look outside the state.  Michigan has to pull nationally especially when Tressel put a fence around Ohio.

Between all the money, facilities, Longhorn network, fertile recruiting grounds, sweet town of Austin etc, you would think Texas could have done more....Despite all these advantages they have fallen behind A&M (obviously aided by the move to the SEC) and Oklahoma (Stoops is just better than Brown IMO)

mh277907

November 6th, 2013 at 8:39 AM ^

Anyway he leaves this year? I know missing most of the season hurts him but if he plays the final games of the season and the bowl game like he played last season, it has to be a thought right? Or is it just wishful thinking on my part?

switch26

November 5th, 2013 at 7:10 PM ^

I don't understand why everyone thinks we should have a good oline with all these freshman playing. Especially having to throw some of them into positions they weren't recruited for on the oline. Should they be a little better than what they have shown? Probably.. but I didn't expect much more than what web have seen thus far.. I'm also sick of seeing how msu develops their talent... the offensive talent is horrific and it took 5 years for their defense to become a shutdown defense.. they were calling for narduzzis head the first 3 years of dantonio

alum96

November 5th, 2013 at 7:11 PM ^

"the last time a Michigan running back carried the ball more than 10 times against the Spartans was 2008. "  Very staggering data point.  Bo must be shaking his head somewhere, if not crying.

SFBlue

November 5th, 2013 at 7:32 PM ^

A true statistic, but a bit misleading.  Denard carried the ball 20 times for 96 yards last year, and Michigan outrushed Michigan State (Fitz had 10 for 52 yards).  From 2009 to 2012, Michigan had a scheme with a running quarterback.  As with the article generally, it is overly dramatic and emphasizes rhetoric over analysis.     

 

snowcrash

November 5th, 2013 at 7:45 PM ^

I think Hoke's recruits are developing on schedule or ahead of schedule at every position group except the OL. Our defenses should only get better from here on out, and if the OL can get up to average on a regular basis we should be able to consistently win 9+ games a year.

switch26

November 5th, 2013 at 8:27 PM ^

We also have 57 players out of 85 that are sophomore or younger.. 10 out of 14 of our scholly lineman are redshirt freshman or or freshman.. I use to shudder if we had a freshman playing under Carr and now people are throwing fits if multiple freshman don't play like seniors immediately. Expectations for freshman to produce are sickening

PurpleStuff

November 5th, 2013 at 8:57 PM ^

Lewan (freshman all-American), Molk, Schilling, Long (2nd team all-conference), Hutchinson, and Backus all played as RS freshmen and played not-terribly.  Baas got into the action a little that year but was 1st team all-conference as a RS sophomore so probably would have been okay a year prior.  Boren started a game as a true freshman and all of his 2nd year.

That's just a few recent ones I can come up with, and it's most of the good players we've had on the lines, off the top of my head in recent years.  It isn't nearly as rare as you're making it out to be.  Guys who are really good are usually at least okay by their 2nd year on campus, especially if they get an opportunity (some young guys don't play because there are really good older guys in front of them).  We don't seem to have any of those guys in the 2012 class.  Or Funk/Borges is atrociously bad, one of those.

 

Lac55

November 5th, 2013 at 9:46 PM ^

and loved old man coyotes series and perspective. Everything was spot on especially about Borges. I frequent 11 warriors just to see what the enemy is doing and they are completely obsessed with Michigan. So much Michigan content and posts its ridiculous. You would think with how mediocre we've been the last few years, they wouldn't care. Then when you compare to the little to no coverage we give them, its not even close.

Shaun

November 6th, 2013 at 12:08 AM ^

Anytime something bad happens to OSU, there is almost always a post about it here.

The difference is that there has been a whole lot of Michigan issues for OSU fans to enjoy this year, and not very many OSU issues for Michigan fans to laugh about...

BILG

November 5th, 2013 at 10:07 PM ^

Our lines are both shit this year.  O-line is horrific and D-line is meh at best.  Can't run the football and rarely get pressure rushing 4.  Rest of the team is pretty solid, but nothing extraordinary.  Hoke's whole identity was to build the team inside-out (from the lines) and right now, ironically that is the biggest fail on the team.  O-line can be blamed on youth, but D-line - his position of expertise, is really a black eye on this staff IMO.

Mgodiscgolfer

November 6th, 2013 at 9:22 AM ^

as watching the game. I can't wait to read him after the OSU loss. He can talk about how lucky Hoke was to be undefeated at home for the last two seasons. I can't follow any other teams and like them the way I do UM so I guess I should give up on football all together. The way this guy makes it sound I might wanna try the Lions cause these (UM) players are not even close to developing the way they should. With all the freshman lineman around the league that are becoming all B1G while our lineman should just transfer so they can be good too. Thank God he wouldn't go on any further because (of all reasons) "it might be piling on" Ya think, gee willikers. I wanted to read it because of my maise and blue glasses I felt that I needed someone else's point of view. Holy hunny bee's that was like eating a shit sandwich without any dressing. The only way I read that fish wrap again is, if, er, when we beat Ohio I wanna hear him tell us how Ohio needs to transfer all their 4 and 5 star players.

coastal blue

November 6th, 2013 at 6:01 PM ^

Someone posted something interesting in another thread about the offensive line. 

Alex Kozan, who were were pursuing two years ago, is starting for Auburn. As a RS FR. So I have to ask, how can, with 4 guys who had at least one four star, one guy who was a consensus 4 star and one guy who had 5 stars from a few sites, not have a single player who can capably play on the line from that class?

Also, let's be honest: Hoke had to see this coming in 2011 and probably had to see it coming with Lewan. So why didn't he offer up some 3-stars from the lower levels of the Big Ten? Or any conference really? He did it at a bunch of other positions that weren't really necessary.