February 20th, 2013 at 1:41 PM ^

So you discount the long carry he had because  "over half of those yards were on a play where he got lit up by 2 guys 8 yards downfield and the equalization of their force enabled him to stay up." I think if you look at any explosive runner they have those games where they may not be churning away 100 yards on the ground, but they nevertheless end up with 100 yards. It would be like taking away Barry Sanders runs because when he wasn't going for 80 yards to the house he was getting 1, -1, 3 and 5 yards on the previous 4 carries. I don't understand the logic there. I wouldn't say we were steamrolling them, but to discount that run doesn't make sense. 

I am also not sure how Denard was the reason we avoided 8 loss seasons every year. That makes it seem like the rest of Michigan's team the last two seasons was a pile of talentless crap. I don't think that's fair. If you were going to argue that something helped UM avoid 8 loss seasons, I would say that's the defensive turn around.


February 20th, 2013 at 3:40 PM ^

The only thing that stopped our offense in 2010 was the lack of an offense capable of scoring when in the red zone. We couldn't make field goals and we couldn't operate within a shortened field. Rich Rod was not a spread "throw it around" guy. He liked to run the ball from spread formations. It just never worked for us. We were better off never getting inside the 20 yard line. It was by no means on Denard's arm that we were unsuccessful. Turnovers never helped us that year either, or a defense that was about the worst in Michigan history.


February 20th, 2013 at 10:54 AM ^

I'm not sure it makes that much sense.  With a more reliable passer who looks like he can drop back, see over defenders/scramble and make throws, a better running attack and a QB who is a threat to run it would seem to be much more for a defense to consider.  


February 20th, 2013 at 11:07 AM ^


Woody- 1951-1978.Fired for punching player and not apologizing. Reading "BO" I gathered he would of keep his job but said he "didn't do it "(possible diabetes according to Bo)

Bruce- 1979-1987. Fired for not being Woody.

Cooper- 1988-200. Fired for losing to Michigan.

Tressel- 2001-2010. Fired for getting caught (still got full retirement).


Looking at the site they don’t have a long history of coaching legacy. Only a handful of coaches lasted over five years. J. Ryder(1892-1898/5yrs) J. Wilce (1913-1928/16yrs), s. Willaman (1929-1933/5yrs) F. Schmidt(1934-1940/7yrs) other than that...?   



February 20th, 2013 at 10:47 AM ^

Sounds to me like 11 Warriors is quietly becoming a quality "MgoBlog" rival in many ways.  Despite our mocking of their fan base the posters there (by Ohio standards) are fairly intellegent and usally reasoned in their thinking.  Recently they scored the Brandon interview and now this excellent analysis.

Could this be the start of the second "10 Year War"?  Only this time we're fighting it on the Blogosphere.......


February 20th, 2013 at 1:25 PM ^

Typical MGoBlog comment:

"Keep in mind that over half of those yards were on a play where he got lit up by 2 guys 8 yards downfield and the equalization of their force enabled him to stay up.  While it otherwise was a nice half, we werent exactly steamrolling them on a consistent basis.  "

Relatively typical 11 Warriors comment:

"Thanks Ramzy for making my computer screen throw up!"

Also this one just for fun:

"The arrogance/self-righteousness on the MGoBlog thread is unbearable..."

We are not arrogant.  We are just all around better human beings than they are.



February 20th, 2013 at 1:43 PM ^

The comment before that has an 11W staff member (!?) posting a blockquoted comment from here with "LOLOLOLOL Delusional scUM fan is delusional." added as analysis. Can anyone remember Ace, Heiko, Seth, or any of their predecessors writing like that? That's mildly embarrassing for a professional writing on the site he apparently gets paid to write for.

I'd still add that most of the actual writers for the site are good/very good, and I've read a few of their diary equivalents and came away impressed.


February 20th, 2013 at 1:53 PM ^

I agree it is hard to generalize because most of the stuff is decent, but that reminds me of when one of their writers basically called Kalis and Strobel fags, or something to that effect in a front page recruiting update. Tim called them out on Twitter for it.

So the answer is no, I cannot see a single staff member of MGoBlog writing like that.


February 20th, 2013 at 11:25 AM ^

11W had to insert this barb, although unfounded, in an attempt to avoid the clear differentiation with Urban.

Hoke has steadily rebuilt our foundation while Urban torched a group of non-performers over the last 15 months to open spots. He has always driven for short-term results over program solidification.

E. Gordon Gee

February 20th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^


Hoke has steadily rebuilt our foundation while Urban torched a group of non-performers over the last 15 months to open spots.


Can you explain, give names and/or quantify the non performers over the last 15 months that Urban has torched as to open spots on OSU roster? Just curious...


February 20th, 2013 at 1:06 PM ^

Clarke, Gambrell, Klein, Williams and Crowell were pushed out.

Undoubtedly they had imperfect behavioral records, but expendable compared to starters like Mewhart and Stoneburner. The pattern of rehabbing starters and booting subs was in effect at UF.

I have zero issue with dismissing kids for serious issues or not renewing kids for a 5th year, and Hoke might give too many chances, but OSU seems to dismiss only non-starters.

E. Gordon Gee

February 20th, 2013 at 3:54 PM ^

I wouldn't exactly say that they all had imperfect behavioral records because that wasn't the case with Conner Crowell. Also, I wouldn't use the term "non performeres" to described the listed student-athletes performances. Do you mean to say players on the depth chart? Maybe one, Tyrone Williams, could fit in that catergory but not all. Lastly, if you don't have an issue for dismissing kids for serious issues then this list of names should probably be shrunk down to a few names because they have problems not because they are "non performeres" getting torched/pushed. 


  • DerJuan Gambrell- Dismissed after misdermeanor charges of assult, menacing and unlawful restraint after campus police responded to an incident at an on-campus dormitory and violation of team rules as a freshman. 
  • Dominic Clarke- Dismissed after drinking and driving only to be followed up by shooting a BB gun at students from Neil Ave tower. (You mess with the students you deserved to be kicked off the team)
  • Klein- Once released, was allowed back on the team. Buried in the depth chart at LB then injured himself following the Purdue game. As far as I know he's still on the team but if Meyer torched/pushed him off the team this would be new to me. Personally I don't think he should be allowed on the team but my judgement and Meyer don't coincide...
  • Tyrone Williams- Played at WR, got two helmet stickers then pushed off the team due to violation of team rules. Not sure what rules were broken but I think you could make an argument for Meyer pushing him off the team. 
  • Conner Crowell- Injured himself coming into Ohio State. "Crowell was in Columbus for two seasons and following an injury in high school, he never really had a chance to show the type of player he was." So should the school keep an open spot for someone who may never get a chance to play because he wasn't cleared by the trainers? Or would you rather they keep an open spot that could go to someone else? In all fairness, use the open spot for another player but honor the scholarship for the injured student athlete. 

Not looking for an arguement, just wanted understanding. 

Edit: Klein graduates this summer...



February 20th, 2013 at 4:51 PM ^

Do you have any examples of starters who deserve to have been dismissed? Mewhort and Stoneburner peed in an alley and then ran when the cops turned a flashlight on them.

Stupid? Yes. Worthy of dismissal from the team? Well I would say a DUI would be about 100 times worse and I do believe Fitz remained on the team following his punishment.

The pair were suspended from team activities over the summer, were fined (their scholarships for their summer classes were pulled) and I'm sure ran until the never wanted to see another alley in their lives.


February 20th, 2013 at 11:34 AM ^

It was a great read until you find yourself trailing into the comments... or more appropriately, the common denominator of human intelligence.  I felt dirty giving the site another hit, and subsequently their advertisers another reason to sponsor that filthy dirty site.

I reiterate that it was a well written article, grammatically sound in the modern American english lexicon, and foreshadowing better days ahead for this prized rivalry.

I'm excited.


February 20th, 2013 at 12:23 PM ^

You're kind of displaying the the same LCD trait when you call it "that filthy dirty site".  They do a decent job, and a lot of our comments aren't really worthy of the Pulitzer.  The goal of this site is not to enlighten, neither is theirs.

Cats / Kate Upton / Jersey sales in Ohio / Freep / Lloyd Brady / etc.


February 20th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^

Here is the combined record of Michigan coaches who stayed 3 or more years prior to Hoke - one table goes back to Ferbert, and the other merely back to Kipke:


1st Season 73 26
2nd Season 78 24
3rd Season 85 16
1st Season 56 25
2nd Season 57 24
3rd Season 66 14

The cumulative shift from the second to third year is definitely upward, and particularly in more recent times, it has meant about +1 in the win column on average (with as high as +3 in individual cases). Interestingly, there is a slight dip in the 4th year and some resurgence in the fifth, for those who could be included in that, or at least that's the typical trend, it seems.

Wolverine Devotee

February 20th, 2013 at 12:32 PM ^

Good 'ol Dutch Ferbert doesn't get enough credit IMO. He should have at least something named after him at Michigan. He won the first ever conference championship here and had a great record. 


February 20th, 2013 at 12:41 PM ^

Both 11W and the Ozone have some good pieces covering Ohio football and basketball. I couldn't say definitively, but generally, the head writers / proprietors of many of the major college sports blogs are reasonable, although they're fully fans of their home school. If you think about it, the same is generally the case for Brian, Matt Hinton, Dylan over at umhoops, TomVH, etc., along with Ramzy at 11W & Gerdeman at the Ozone. I used to link to Gerdeman's posts about Michigan every week during the season.

There is one comment in the 11W piece by "M Man" which could have a huge impact next year:  Michigan has an extremely favorable schedule:

Date               Opponent [home games in CAPS]
Sept. 7       NOTRE DAME
Sept. 14     AKRON
Sept. 21     at Connecticut
Sept. 28     Bye Week
Oct. 5        MINNESOTA* (HC)
Oct. 12      at Penn State*
Oct. 19      INDIANA*
Oct. 26      Bye Week
Nov. 2       at Michigan State*
Nov. 9       NEBRASKA*
Nov. 16     at Northwestern*
Nov. 23     at Iowa*
Nov. 30     OHIO STATE*

As I look at this, and consider how ND should be worse than last year, MSU should be worse than last year, and Nebraska and Ohio are at home, I wonder if Michigan can win all of their games all the way through Iowa. This would give Michigan the entire season to improve, including:

  • Gardner getting things down, especially timing with the WR corp.
  • Green the time to develop at RB
  • OL & DL time to develop
  • LB time to solidify
  • the Secondary time to develop, 

I actually could see Hoke having the luxury of holding certain plays back for Ohio, and really doing a certain amount of game planning for Ohio. I just don't know how good Ohio will really be next year.

I really am looking forward to the season next year.



February 20th, 2013 at 12:57 PM ^

"I actually could see Hoke having the luxury of holding certain plays back for Ohio"

Nope.  You will see the full power of our offense unleashed during the 38-7 victory over Iowa the week before.  And, now convinced that all the gadgets, trick plays and formation wrinkiles practiced relentlessly all year DO work, Borges will promptly put them back away for another year; content he has screwed up yet another Michigan practice week for Ohio.