Michigan BB #7 in AP, #8 Coaches

Submitted by DCAlum on March 4th, 2013 at 12:12 PM

Michigan #7 in AP poll: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

1 Gonzaga (51) 29-2 1,607
2 Indiana (7) 25-4 1,517
3 Duke (5) 25-4 1,471
4 Kansas 25-4 1,433
5 Georgetown (2) 23-4 1,384
6 Miami (FL) 23-5 1,245
7 Michigan 24-5 1,240
8 Louisville 24-5 1,217
9 Kansas State 24-5 1,040
10 Michigan State 22-7 1,006


Edit: Also #8 in coaches poll. This is the best link I could find right now (ESPN will update soon probably): http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/rankings/coaches 



March 4th, 2013 at 12:50 PM ^

Rankings nor seeding validates anything.  Only if they win their final game of the season, is anything validated.  

I believe they are over-ranked.  I believe it was during the PSU game that the announcer said if Gonzaga played in the B1G they'd have at least 5 or 6 losses in-conference.  

The only reason they're #1 is because they haven't lost since January 19th.  That was at #13 Butler.  Since then they haven't played 1 ranked team.  


March 4th, 2013 at 12:40 PM ^

turned out to be craptastic.  They scheduled WVU, Clemson, Oklahoma, Illini, Kansas State, Baylor, Oklahoma State, and Butler.  Only Illini(to some degree), Kansas State, Butler and Oklahoma State turned out fine.  Others? They dominted them.  They beat up Kansas State and beat a very good Oklahoma State.  Yes, they lost to Illini but if they played each other again, I am quite certain that Gonzaga would beat them bad.  Illini had early season success with hot 3 pt shooting.  Butler beat IU and Duke so they had the ability to beat top teams.

They also had quality conference teams like St. Mary's and BYU.  They dominated both teams.

They are #4 in KenPom rankings and they deserved to be #1 in the country.


March 4th, 2013 at 12:48 PM ^

Quality conference teams?

Yes, St. Mary's is pretty good.  They're just slightly below Minnesota's level on Kenpom.  BYU?  They're on Purdue's level.

The rest of their conference has a sub-500 overall record.  That's a lot of Northwestern and Nebraska type teams. 

Yes, they did well non-conference and they've been running the table.  They should be a top-5 team.  But the strength of your conference can and should be held against you.  They've had no gauntlet.  No tough stretch.  And they've done what they needed to do.  But let's call a spade a spade here:  they've had a very easy 2013. 


March 4th, 2013 at 1:55 PM ^

when they ran the table in CUSA in 2008. They were #1 seed and made it to the national championship game.  Gonzaga is blowing everybody out in a similar fashion that it holds weight that they are superior in their own conference.  There is a correlation to efficiency margin and they tend to hold true in NCAA tourament.

Michigan won the share of B1G last year despite the fact that they were close to even zero in efficiency margin in conference play.  The result of NCAA tourney?  They lost in the 1st round.  Team who are efficient in conference tends to do well in NCAA tourney.  I expect Gonzaga to make it to the Sweet 16/Elite 8 without a problem.


March 4th, 2013 at 5:04 PM ^

2008 Memphis?  The team with Derrick Rose?  The same team that beat Oklahoma and UConn?  That beat USC (with OJ Mayo)?  That beat #5 GTown and #17 Arizona?  Yeah, totally the same as 2013 Gonzaga who's played 4 ranked teams all season (and lost to 2 of them).


March 4th, 2013 at 6:34 PM ^

Memphis schedule is very similar to Gonzaga's schedule. Oklahoma and USC were a solid team, but not a tough team.  They both were 23-12 and 21-12 which is medicore for a power conference team.  Oklahoma lost to Stephen F. Austin, Colorado and Nebraska on that year, and USC lost to Mercer and California (and couldn't beat top Pac-10 teams).

Arizona was a very medicore team who went 19-15 that year and got trounced at 1st round of NCAA tourney to WVU.

They beat a very good Georgetown team which I'll give them that.  They lost to Tennessee team who is a very solid team.

At the final poll, Memphis faced 3 teams in the top 25 in the regular season.  They went 2-1.

My point being is Memphis get the bad rap like Gonzaga for playing a soft schedule and had no challengers in their own conference.  They dominated everybody they played in their schedule.  They have POY candidate in Derrick Rose.  Gonzaga also have POY candidate in Kelly Olynyk.  Both are very similar because of their reputations and their high rankings to go along with dominance in their own conference.

If I can find archived posts on 2008 Memphis here, you would see the exact same responses from MGoBloggers.  It's like watching a re-run of a show.


March 4th, 2013 at 7:30 PM ^

Eh, Memphis played in a garbage conference as well.  It certainly isn't Gonzaga's fault that they have a terrible in-conference schedule, but it also makes them one of the weakest #1's that I can ever remember.  Bball isn't like football, teams in weak conferences can load up out-of-conference to prove their worth.  Gonzaga didn't really do that.  Four games against good competition is no better than the vast majority of solid D-1 programs (who also play good teams in conference).  

Look, I'm a big UofD fan, so I'm cool with mid-majors, but know thy place...and that's, maybe a 3 seed.


March 4th, 2013 at 10:50 PM ^

Gonzaga did load up their non conference schedule. It wasn't their fault that some of them are overrated like Baylor who was in the preseason top 25. They played 8 out of 16 power conference teams. If that's not loading up their schedule, then I don't know what is.


March 5th, 2013 at 1:36 AM ^

They're overrated and I'm not even sure why you're so upset about it. There's also no comparison between a legit NBA MVP and Gonzaga's center. Memphis also had one of the greatest coaches of our time as well. This is not even close to the same as Memphis. Gonzaga lost 2 games to ranked opponents, barely beat a top 25 Oklahoma State team by ONE point, and that's about all they've got. Sure it's not the fault of Gonzaga that some of these teams didn't live up to the pre-season hype, but that doesn't mean that Gonzaga gets a pass. They may have tried to load up, but in reality they didn't because those teams weren't as good. It doesn't matter who is at fault, it just matters that they don't have any big wins.

They would have lost 5 or 6 games in the Big Ten. Plain and simple. They're overrated.


March 5th, 2013 at 1:54 PM ^

with their physicality.  They would lose 3-4 games.  They beat Kansas State, Oklahoma State on neutral court and away game and both qualify as big wins.  Butler only won on a buzzer beater but Gonzaga was the better team.

Gonzaga Center is a POY candidate and is a problem for any players to guard down low.  Calipari is the greatest coaches of our time?  More like greatest recruiter of our time. 

Tell KenPom that they're overrated because they are ranked #4 in his ranking.


March 4th, 2013 at 1:45 PM ^

I diagree with this pretty strongly. They shouldn't get bonus points because they tried to schedule strongly or because they blew out teams in a shitty conference (i refuse to accept their conference is any good). They should be judged on what they have or haven't done.

Do we get extra credit for playing that same wvu team that was uncharacteriscally bad this year? What about NC State who was supposed to be much better than it is? You can't selectively cherry pick. We swept illinois and beat ksu as well.

If gonzaga were in the big 10 how would they fare?
What about if michigan was in their conference?



March 4th, 2013 at 5:32 PM ^

Gonzaga has played 2 games against teams that are currently ranked.

they beat #9 Ksu at home (we beat them at a neutral site).
they beat #13 ok. state on the road.

Umich has played 8 games against currently ranked teams (9 after we play indiana again).

split osu, split msu, lost at wisco, beat ksu, beat pitt, lost at indiana (home game upcoming).

our record in those 8 games is 4-4.

if you want to point to illinois as a quality opponent that they played (and lost to) then you should realize we swept them.

I don't think anyone can claim the schedules are anywhere close to equal.


March 4th, 2013 at 5:37 PM ^

I don't really have a problem with Gonzaga being ranked #1 right now.  At the same time, I do not feel that they are a legitimate National Championship contender or much of a Final 4 contender.  If they get a tough 2nd round matchup like VCU or have to play Syracuse in the Sweet 16 or Louisville in the Elite 8, I just don't see them surviving that.  I do not think their last 2 months has prepared them to face a stretch like that.  Gonzaga has had a great year and they are a really good team.  It has been so long since anyone has seen their flaws that they appear better than they are.  Congrats to them on their #1 ranking.  Time to go prove they deserve it.


March 4th, 2013 at 12:16 PM ^

  1. Gonzaga
  2. Indiana
  3. Duke
  4. Kansas
  5. Georgetown
  6. Miami (FL)
  8. Louisville
  9. Kansas State
  10. Michigan State
  11. Florida
  12. New Mexico
  13. Oklahoma State
  14. Ohio State
  15. Marquette
  16. Saint Louis
  17. Syracuse
  18. Arizona
  19. Oregon
  20. Pittsburgh
  21. Virginia Commonwealth
  22. Wisconsin
  23. UCLA
  24. Notre Dame
  25. Memphis

Orthers recieving votes: North Carolina 109, Louisiana Tech 103, Saint Mary's 47, UNLV 43, California 33, Butler 26, Illinois 25, Minnesota 10, Creighton 7, Middle Tennessee 5, Akron 4, Missouri 4, Belmont 3, Colorado State 1


March 4th, 2013 at 12:23 PM ^

We are pretty much looking at a 2 or a 3 seed depending on how we finish, right? There is no real shot at rising to a 1 or dropping to a 4, right?


March 4th, 2013 at 12:44 PM ^

Michigan will be the #3 seed if they beat Purdue and lose to IU and win a BTT game.  Worse case scenario, Michigan lose out and bowed out early in BTT, they're #4 seed.  Most likely, they're #2/#3 with a possible chance of going #1 seed if they win out and win BTT.


I'd have to think that 2 B1G team will earn #1 seed (IU and whoever wants it) on the strength of the conference supremency.  B1G is head and shoulders above other conferences by a wide margin.


March 4th, 2013 at 1:34 PM ^

I'm not trying to argue for us being a five seed here but to completely dismiss it as a possibility is wrong I think. If we were to lose our next three: @purdue, Indiana and first game of B1G tourney we'd have lost 7 of our last 10 games with only wins being home PSU, Illinois and MSU.

The selection committee is all about who's hot and in that unpleasant world we most certainly would not be.

Not saying its going to happen. I'm saying it could happen and that was the original question.


March 4th, 2013 at 1:07 PM ^

They are not going to be a 5 seed.  That is not happening. If they beat Indiana and get to the Big10 final they likely be a 1.  For one seeds you have Indiana, Duke/ Miami (1 not both), Gonzaga and after that Big10 #2 or Kansas likely.  Georgetown would have to run the table to be in the discussion and I don't see any chance of that happening.


March 4th, 2013 at 12:32 PM ^

I wouldn't say that either are out of the question (the 1 or 4 seed)

We lose at Purdue and to Indiana and get bounced in the opening round (no bye) in the B1G tourney, and I can see us getting bumped out if MSU and OSU do well (by beating Wisconsin and Indiana, respectively, and doing well in Chicago).

That being said, if win out and win the B1G tournament, we would definitely be a 1 seed.  28-5 with wins over Pitt, KSU, NC State, Indiana, MSU, OSU, Minnesota, Illinois x2, and another one of the previously listed in the tournament.  That's a 1 seed.

EDIT:  Thirty-eight people beat me to it.


March 4th, 2013 at 1:10 PM ^

Kansas has the TCU loss draggin them down, Miami has lost to Florida Gulf Coast, WF, and Indiana St. Georgetown lost to USF.  Most teams other than Duke and Indiana have bad losses.  Even Duke has the Virginia loss which isn't looking that great after they collapsed at BC.


March 4th, 2013 at 12:26 PM ^

It's nice to see the B1G getting so much respect.  Even Minnesota, after their annual mid-season free fall, has righted the ship momentarily and is back to receiving votes.

Rankings, despite how maligned they are, tend to follow (within +/- 2 how seedings are placed for the tournament.  I like seeing us in the top 8, because it is a strong sign we can at least get a 2-seed.  1-seeds are nice for marketing, but are really no different from 2-seeds (with the lone exception being the first round opponent tends to be a worse). 


March 4th, 2013 at 12:28 PM ^

...but I feel like the polls should be more than just an indicator or record. Nos. 1-9 are more ranked based on record, with little empasis on quality wins. Miami's only solid wins are Duke, NCST, and Sparty and lost to a couple awful teams this year. Gonzaga head to head against Duke and IU would lost both, so why are they ranked ahead of them. Kansas is in a crappy conference. Why are they ahead of Georgetown?

I hate this voter laziness. I know NCAA seeding matters more, but it still pisses me off.


March 4th, 2013 at 12:33 PM ^

The AP poll all but ignores SOS and margin of victory.  Kenpom does not.  Objectively speaking, MSU has done better head-to-head against UM and everything else is probably too close to differentiate, so I think they deserve to be at 10, slightly ahead of UM at 11.

Interestingly, Wisc and Pitt are both above UM - which I would dispute...but the PSU loss obviously hurts us in any algorithm.