#MGoMoney: The Market & Your 401K/Investments

Submitted by UMProud on

The Bear has is awake it seems and he is pissed off.

Are you worried about your investments, not worried at all, have already cashed out, or happy that you can buy more at lower prices?  Are you retired, close to retirement or a few years/decades away?  What kinds of funds do you own in your 401k?

 

Bschool85

February 9th, 2018 at 5:10 PM ^

Two things that stuck with me most from my time in B-School 1) Buy the companies making/selling axes and picks, not those mining for gold (singles VS home runs) 2) Look at indices charts over time (6-month, 1-year, 2-year, etc) as day to day gyrations can drive you crazy. Steady as she goes with the right amount of risk included

StephenRKass

February 9th, 2018 at 5:11 PM ^

I try not to watch or time the markets. What goes up often comes down. Why is it we're ecstatic when the market goes up, but grumble to no end when it comes down? I'm sure there are a ton more savvy investors on this board, but investing immediately (after beginning my work life,) regularly, significantly, steadily, and aggressively has made all the difference.

Hopefully you'll find a good financial advisor. I have personally chosen a combination of large cap, small cap, mid cap, and international mutual funds in Roth IRA, 403b, and 401k instruments, as well as some that can be tapped immediately. Like I said, I am sure there is a lot more wealth and wisdom on this board than me.

I have only a little advice, which mostly should be obvious

  1. Spend less than you make (I keep zero credit card balances - live within your means)
  2. Start investing immediately after you enter the work world. It doesn't look like much, but will eventually grow. If possible, have thi s come automatically out of your pay
  3. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Having one stock, or one mutual fund, is too stressful for me. Diversify your investments.
  4. This last one is more my opinion, but if you can stomach it, be as aggressive as you can. (Betting everything on one stock is too much for me, but if you are convinced it would pay off, maybe that'd be a good strategy for you!)

MGoBender

February 9th, 2018 at 7:31 PM ^

100% of my Roth IRA is in the Schwab S&P Index Fund.

93% of my 403b is in Vanguard index fund.

It's that simple.  I just turned 31.  It's gonna stay that way for at least 20 years and then maybe I'll slide a percent a year into bonds... but the "your age in bonds the rest in stocks" line - to me - is far too conservative.

The last couple years I've really cranked up my savings and have moved up my $2M goal by two years.  Of course, easy to say that after last year, but just invest, invest, invest and don't let your lifestyle inflate.  Simple steps to becoming a millionaire.

MGoBender

February 9th, 2018 at 10:14 PM ^

I've focused on maxing out my Roth, which I just did for the third time.  Now that it has reached a point where it serves as a fully funded emergency fund (20k), I've upped my 403b contributions to $500/month.  Obviously that's not maxed, but I also get an auto 7% company contribution (regardless of my contribution!!! great benefit!!!), so right now I'm approaching $1k a month into 403b.

So, I guess the question is:  Now that I've gotten my Roth contributions to 15k+, should I take some of that monthly contribution and work towards maxing out the 403b?  My Dad says that's the priority.  Mathematically, whether you pay the taxes now or at retirement is the same... but that of course assumes everything stays equal. It won't, I'd theoretically, hopefully be taking out more per year than I am currently earning a 31.

My current plan hs be increasing 403b conts. by $1k a year until maxing out, however this January I doubled it from $3k to $6k a year (250 to 500/month). Could be temporary bc I have a roommate that makes a huge chunk of this possible.  However, I'm really thinking right now about what it would take to go even further on the 403b while still maxing the Roth.  I ultimately come back to "you're in better shape than 99.999% of people you're age, just keep saving and avoid spending stupidly"

UMProud

February 10th, 2018 at 12:07 AM ^

Your dad is tight the 403b should be priority simce it reduces your adjusted gross income. The tax rate you pay as a retiree will probably be lower than as a worker bee. Minimum contributuon should be enough to max out matching dollars...max should be 16.5k or w/e is max allowed. Remember...for every 1 dollar you invest only 75 cents is yours. 25 cents is Uncle Sam. You get to use US tax dollars for gains free until retirement and pay taxes on withdrawal at a lower tax rate. Win win win

MGoBender

February 10th, 2018 at 11:29 AM ^

Yeah, the question seems to be what will I be paying in taxes when I'm taking them out.  Until very recently, I think the answer for me was that I am not making more than I will be taking out.  Now that that is reversed and my Roth is up to a level that can act as an Emergency Fund, I was in the right to double up my 403b contributions.  I'll see how it goes for a couple months and maybe up it again.  

The max is up to $18,000.  I don't think I can swing $1500/month yet, but I'm working towards!

Go Blue in MN

February 9th, 2018 at 9:03 PM ^

As the term diversification is normally used, a Vanguard total stock market fund is extremely diversified because it has every industry represented and large caps, small caps, and everything inbetween.  Adding an international index fund will increase diversification further.  A bond fund will diversify you further, but don't put too much in there, especially if you're young. 

StephenRKass

February 10th, 2018 at 12:48 AM ^

Short answer:  no advantage.

Long answer:  I started investing a good 25 years ago. At which point, there were no index funds. Or they were very new.

Longer answer:  I would probably go with an aggressive indexed fund today. But I at least slightly like being able to focus on segments of the market that I like, which may differ slightly from an index fund.

M-Dog

February 10th, 2018 at 10:35 AM ^

A total stock market fund tends to skew toward Domestic Large Caps somewhat. 

Individual funds that track Large Caps, Small Caps, and Internationals can even that out more.

A total stock market fund can still be pretty good though.  Just make sure you get one that has a healthy mix of Internationals if you are only going to have one.

   

Arb lover

February 10th, 2018 at 5:32 PM ^

To answer your question, it depends largely on who the investor is and what their strategy is. 

For most people, index funds are a decent vehicle if they are designed to mimic overal market performance. When you consider total cost, historically they often outperform mutual funds and other actively managed assets (somebody's diversified "portfolio")(yes, there are plenty of sub quality professional investors). Even if something is actively managed appropriately,  its quite possibly going to pass off market hurt to the consumer, and cut steeply into gains. So, for most people, the benefit of an index fund over time is that it's a low cost relatively safe investment strategy that works WELL. 

There are only several issues with index fund investment, but most retail investors should be happy to live with these, presuming they are not pulling out during a dip. 

1) Index funds are overweight on the overweight stocks, and underweight on the underweight stocks. Index funds are (usually) weighed vehicles that take the overall market cap of a sector or whatever. As a specific stock becomes overweight and takes up a larger share of the market than it should, the index fund purchase ignores this, and you end up propping up overweight stocks. Undervalued stocks are purchased less than they should be. This potentially becomes an issue especially in indexes that have a smaller number of stocks that make up the portfolio. For example, indexes designed to mimic the DJIA are comprised of almost 10% Boeing stock. I'm not saying that's a bad investment, but there is a theory out there that large firms are becoming more overweight not simply because of their large weighting in index funds and steadily decreasing percentage of professionally managed money. (There is theoretically an inflection point beyond which the amount of active (or emotionally) managed money that may pull out based on news, earnings or developments, may not be enough to not have a zombe index fund purchase waiting to prevent a drop). At that point you have a run-away stock, and there are one or two out there. 

2) Index funds are not reactive. They are often designed to grab all of a certain type of stock, which is great when everything is hunky dory, but could be devistating if there is a game changer that affects the underlying sector. For example, PNQI attempts to grab some of everything internet, but it's not actively going to protect itself if there is some sort of market shift or emerging technology, especially if its not publicly owned. 

3) Index funds are becoming more volatile in market drops as they become more popular with investors. We are actually seeing this right now. The increased volatility (large volume) is hitting the market as a whole, even though certain stocks are very well positioned for growth under a higher inflation higher rate environment. (JPM for example). This doesnt impact an investor unless they either wish to sell quickly based on new news, or may have to sell based on changing financial situations. While this is proving to provide a lot of tasty arbitrage for strategically placed investors, it's not a big deal if you just ride it out. The point here is though, that even the market as a whole is not a completely diversified strategy if that's what everyone else is doing, for if you feel you have to sell, and so does everyone else, then that's not a place you want to be in. 

 

Champeen

February 9th, 2018 at 5:15 PM ^

For growth stocks, buy MU (micron) and DQ (daqo new energy)

For income/Dividend, buy ABR (arbor realty) and SSW (seaspan corp)

Get the hell out of cryptos or stay away - its too late to get in and if you made money on the fluff, get out.

I also do not believe stocks are quite done going down the tube.  Wall street needed a major correction, it has ran too much too fast for the last few years.  

ska4punkkid

February 9th, 2018 at 5:37 PM ^

Cryptos - lol it is not fluff and it absolutely is not too late to get in

The funny thing is that most doubters are uneducated as to what cryptocurrency actually is. They think that people are just making up digital currencies when in reality there are underlying technologies and businesses/uses for them. Sure, there are exaggerated swings, all markets have ups and downs - we see what just happened with the Dow and S&P 500. People who bought Bitcoin at its all-time high in Dec may be freaking out right now, but they will be happy in the end if they hold steady. And again, now is the time to buy more if you can

Arb lover

February 10th, 2018 at 3:10 PM ^

You would recommend B if it were at 100k, down from a high of 200k. To make your statements, you have no idea what your price point is or what a decent valuation is. Are you really arguing there is some proprietary technology worth a certain price, when the whole idea is open? There is a price at which even the best investment becomes a bad purchase, and you are way past it on speculation alone. Don't get me wrong, I may have used the ugly to mine a bit years ago as a novelty...but I wrote more above re specifics.

Schembo

February 9th, 2018 at 5:17 PM ^

It seems to me that this is a just correction from the sharp gains we saw at the end of last year. I don’t think we are entering a bear market yet.

Blue4U

February 9th, 2018 at 5:27 PM ^

forward to.  I trade the DAX index futures specifically.  I'm not much of an investor other than IRA's and a Roth for my daughter.  I don't think this downside move is over.  The drop was toooo fast for a reasonable pullback so I look for some downside pressure and violent whipsaw action similar to the last few days.  

BJNavarre

February 9th, 2018 at 5:39 PM ^

I have a relative that's an emotional investor and sold after both the 2001 & 2008 crashes and bought when the market recovered. Over a timeframe when most peoples 401k's should have easily doubled, he lost well over 50% of his retirement savings...and is at retirement age.

He'll be fine, but moral of the story is don't be like him. Unless you invest for a living, take the longview and don't sell when the market plunges or buy crypto currencies after they've had a 20,000% run up. 

DrMantisToboggan

February 9th, 2018 at 5:46 PM ^

Just don't sell anything. You haven't lost any money until you sell low. Warren Buffett would tell you the same thing, just put your money in a total market index fund and let it sit there. 

kevbo1

February 9th, 2018 at 5:53 PM ^

Is around 17000. The market is very overvalued and we are overdue for a pullback, probably larger than what happened this week. The good news is that if the market crashes the government will probably bail you out with a stimulus.

Mr poonsniffle

February 9th, 2018 at 5:53 PM ^

I’m not worried. I have another 30 years left, so I don’t get emotional about short term swings.

I am heavily invested in blue chip stocks. Mostly Facebook, Apple, Netflix. Also a ton in TRBCX which is a great blue chip index fund.

I started investing about 10 years ago right before the market bottomed out, so couldn’t have timed it better. The yearly returns have been insane!

Blue_Bull_Run

February 9th, 2018 at 5:59 PM ^

Im no't worried - my 401k, Roth, and TDam accounts have held up somewhat well...basically I'm back to where I was around Thanksgiving, more or less. But, I am extremely annoyed because I wanted this party to go on forever so that I could GTFO out my job, and now I got a dose of reality. Whatever, I guess.