Mgoboard QBs

Submitted by Mgoczar on January 23rd, 2018 at 3:47 PM

Been thinking alot about QBs and how hard it is to be one. So

1. Any QBs on the board (highschool/non-D1s ?) - how hard is it to be a "good" QB. 

2. How the hell is Tom Brady so good? They rushed for <100 yards and he still won AFC. Leads me to this question: not the most athletic, so is it all just in the head? 

3. Every time I see replays - arm chair QB style - its like : oh so easy,throw that ball where the receiver is sitting in the zone, why the hell didn't you do it, so can constant non-stop film study get you to be "good"?

4. Most of QBs in the league don't seem fiery. Flaaco seems high. Point being, are they really playing just for money or is it a quality (even keeled). This kinda relates to Peters I guess. May be its a good thing you are sort of "lazy looking"

5. Are we ever going to see a QB like Brady at Michigan (yes we had him, but can we get another) ???

Comments

NashvilleBLUE

January 23rd, 2018 at 3:53 PM ^

The only one I can speak to is #5. Michigan will never have a quarterback like Tom Brady. Tom was a special, one and a million, player and whatever college he went to was lucky to have recruited him and had him commit there.

Michigan will never, and I mean NEVER get a player like that.

MGoGrendel

January 23rd, 2018 at 3:54 PM ^

Brady practices routes with his receivers an insane amount of reps.  This produces muscle memory to hit the target in games.  

He reviews film relentlessly and knows the other teams defensive weaknesses and tendencies.  He just works his ass off and has a mental toughness that few possess.   

Mgoczar

January 23rd, 2018 at 3:58 PM ^

Can;t that method be replicated though? For example to be a great surgeon you do many many many surgeries. That repetition leads to better outcomes/confidence etc. Can't that be repeated by some motivated QB? I just wanted to see what the hell these QBs go through. Can't they replicate the way brady works and grab stardom for themselves? Anyways, just ranting!

EGD

January 23rd, 2018 at 4:06 PM ^

Similar to the muscle memory thing, my theory is that Brady has a peculiar pattern-recognition thing going on that enables him to accurately read defenses specatularly well.  It would have to be at a semi-conscious or even subconscious level for him to recall and utilize that ability in the time availble between a snap, dropback, and throw.   

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

January 25th, 2018 at 10:57 AM ^

There is an innate skill that cannot be learned or truly replicated. Recognizing windows and layers in coverage that are constantly and rapidly changing is a gift.

Guys can learn to read coverages. Guys can memorize routes and ideal spots to deliver the ball. Guys can practice with receivers ad nauseum to master synchronicity. Guys can practice throws and drills to put balls into certain spots and different trajectories. Every QB focuses on these essentials to prepare. Exceot defenses and personnel constantly introduce variability, including poor visibility and pocket chaos.

Bad QBs miss the variability or freeze in the face of variability. Good QBs recognize the variability and adjust. Elite QBs have an innate gift to anticipate or instantly sense the variability and make the best adjustment.

Mr Miggle

January 23rd, 2018 at 4:32 PM ^

and so on. The hard work and practice is a neccesity to get to that level. To get to Brady's level, to be the very top, requires more than a training method or desire. He has an ability beyond what others have. From a non-QB perspective, it seems that he sees the field in a way that few can. He sees all the moving parts clearly enough to make the right calls and throws. Experience and practice play their part, but very few have the ability to become a true virtuoso. 

bluebyyou

January 23rd, 2018 at 5:01 PM ^

Brady has the perfect storm of talent and scheme.  He has a gift of physical skills and mental acuity that works perfectly in the scheme the Pats run. He has also been lucky that with the exception of one season with the knee injury, he has played as long as he has with no other major injury. I would doubt that any of us sees another QB/team with a run like the Pats and Brady have had.  

Every time I watch the Pats play, I tell myself to embrace what I am seeing because it is probably unique.

canzior

January 23rd, 2018 at 5:21 PM ^

thats why i think it's more than just drive. Let's say there are 10 "elite" qb's right now...you cant say that every other qb doesn't have the fire that those 10 have. Just hard to believe. If the recipe was that simple, i think it wouldv'e been discovered by now.  I think it's system...Montana was previously considered the greatest qb of all time...also not an elite athlete, didn't wow you physically...but he was part of an innovative offense for the time. (playing with a team of HOF guys helped too.)  Belichek has transformed offenses in a way that other teams just can't catch up with. A game plan that minimizes the use of wr's, in place of TE's, slots and 3rd down backs is ingenius. It's winning the matchup game...it's Saquon Barkley vs Mike Mccray...for an entire game. There are qb's who work just as hard (like Peyton) but don't have the success. Manning played with terrible defenses in Indy...Elway played Super Bowls against great defenses...Marino languished in Miami without ever really having a complete team.  Also in an era  with other greats.  

Blue_by_U

January 23rd, 2018 at 7:26 PM ^

Attended a larger school with little football tradition, I was fast, had a strong and accurate arm, but lacked the desire/maturity to work hard. To be great/D-1 successful you need physical gifts, toughness, and work ethic for sure. Football is a job. Running even a complex high school offense smoothly takes a ton of repetition and recognition.
Tom Brady is the greatest because he's Tom Brady. He makes up for good athleticism with remarkable and unparalleled football intelligence. He also works harder and prepares better than the 31 other starters. Belicheck once said when you go into a meeting with Tom you better be prepared beyond acceptable. Tom has the ability to see a play, and isolate that information indefinitely. I recall belicheck stating a wrinkle they were considering vs a random one off game they had faced one other time...Tom interrupted and said something to the effect..."no if we 'x' the coverage will react...blah blah and will disrupt the play, they did it once" In disbelief they went back and scouted the play and Brady recalled it perfectly. He simply out works and processes faster and better than anyone who's ever played the game.
Part of that is the Bellicheck method and familiarity, some of it cannot be duplicated period...

UMdad

January 24th, 2018 at 9:25 AM ^

I was one of those who thought Drew Henson was a better QB and that Lloyd was only splitting time out of respect to a senior.  I know I wasn't the only one.  Hindsight has a funny way of making things look different but there was a reason he was a late round draft pick.  

UMdad

January 24th, 2018 at 9:30 AM ^

And, I did play QB in high school for a small school.  I can say that I was a much better passer in IM leagues through college and playing in the Detroit Sports and Social Club for a few years after - mostly because we were all wearing flags and I had 5-7 seconds to throw.  QB play is hugely affected by the quality of the O line and receivers that can get open.  David Carr syndrome is a real thing that I think is much easier to understand if you have played the position.  It isn't Xbox Madden.  I had games where I was crushed by blindside hits trying to hit a simple slant route on a 3 step drop.  It doesn't take too many of those before you get happy feet and alligator arm release.    

tspoon

January 25th, 2018 at 11:48 AM ^

No, it was Brady in the 1st, Henson in the 2nd (threw a pick and a huge bomb TD) and then Brady in the 2nd half.

Brady was 30-of-41 for 285 yds and 2TDs.  He was 6 of 11 for 44 yards when Henson came in.

But that was the Plaxico game: he caught 255yrds on us, Burke threw for an even 400.

 

 

 

Term

January 23rd, 2018 at 3:57 PM ^

It's obviously extremely difficult to be a good QB, otherwise there would be more of them...something alot of people don't understand, when you watch a replay and think 'omg that guy was wide open' that's not what the QB sees. The QB almost never sees a WRs entire route, it's more like they flash into your field of vision for a quick second. Film work is so rediculously important as to learn where your WRs should be, cuz you're really throwing to a spot and hoping he's there.

Longballs Dong…

January 23rd, 2018 at 3:57 PM ^

1. Not me, but I'll say it's very hard. On the difficulty scale it's at least a 23

2. He's smart enough to read coverages and anticipate receiver actions, talented enough to throw a football exactly where he wants it and driven enough to study film and practice like hell.  

3. Because in real life, QBs are being jumped at by 280 lb dudes and receivers are running extremely fast and defenses are disguising where they are coming from and what they plan to do.  Maybe it's zone or maybe we back out of zone at the snap.  It's just a lot of moving parts to see, understand, react to, and not die.

4. Not sure how to define fiery.  They aren't usually the type to dance around but I think that's because they are always the leader of a team and always center of attention.  I think many are fiery but only once a drive has ended, rarely during a drive - they're too focused.

5. Can you imagine if we had someone like Tom Brady at UM?  The closest I can recall was the late 90s/early 00s when we had a young chap name Bom Trady.  In retrospect, he was a very similar player.  I wonder what happened to that guy.  

Almost everyone one of these questions can't really be answered. I'm not sure what you're expecting here.

Longballs Dong…

January 23rd, 2018 at 5:52 PM ^

I think it's 3 things: Talent (at the end of the day you have to be able to throw a dart), Intlligence (you have to process a lot of info quickly), and Drive (you have to want to dedicate a lot of time and practice).  Where I think you want to go is how Technology (most likely VR for processing, but maybe Big Data for trends) can impact those.  To me the drive in innate.  Talent is close to innate but can be cultivated.  I think the intelligence and processing can be impacted with Technology.  here's an article about Case keenum learning the Vikings offense much faster because he used a lot of VR:

http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/25242/virtual-real…

Neversatisfied

January 23rd, 2018 at 4:04 PM ^

Even good high school QBs, and most D1 QBs can't tell you what it takes to be a truly elite QB, why?  Because they don't know.  Being an elite QB that everyone in the country talks about takes a level of natural ability, work ethic, and tenacious study habits culminating in a life time's work of being an "elite QB".  Lets just say if you have to ask this question, you will never know.  

One thing I know for sure it takes is full dedication in every aspect, and even then you can only ascend to that level if you were blessed with a certain skill set.  

Seth

January 23rd, 2018 at 3:58 PM ^

I know a former Michigan QB but unfortunately he is literally carving into my mother right now. Soon as the surgery's over he'll have to come find me here in the waiting room and I'll ask him what he thinks.

WindyCityBlue

January 23rd, 2018 at 4:26 PM ^

The inner child in me took over when I heard you say, "literally carving into my mother right now".  It took me a couple seconds and reading your next sentence to realize that infact you were NOT watching your mother getting intercoursed by a former Michigan QB. 

With that, would've been pretty cool if you were :)

TSimpson77

January 23rd, 2018 at 4:00 PM ^

#2 Tom Brady is good because he's smart, not just book smart, but football smart. Same with Peyton Manning. They study film and find tendancies that other quarterbacks don't want to put time into, they see the whole field not just zones. Think of how many free yards Manning had catching a guy running off the field. Any average qb can make the throws, but the special ones make the plays. 

SpinachAssassin

January 23rd, 2018 at 4:06 PM ^

Not high school/college, yet a rec league that had plays and pads.

The hardest part are progressions. You need nerves of steel to block out noise, know that this guy is getting open at this time, yet if he's not, you move on to the next. And if that guy's not, on to the next. And if not that guy, time to bail. That all happens in maybe 2-3 seconds.

Hardest thing for me was to keep composure if pressure came. Being chased by 200 pound guys was enough to rattle me. I didn't quit my day job.

So my ever-so-marginally-informed observation is that Brady can process information quickly and has a short memory if mistakes happen, the schemes/routes are highly sophisticated, and the receivers are very intelligent. They know when to break off routes, when to sit in a zone, etc. And Brady is very good at nearly immediately digesting all of that information, which is why I think he gets so heated at a teammate when a play breaks down since he had expectations to beat the defense and something didn't work.

TL;DR - it's way harder than he makes it look.