Lucy, you got some 'splaining to do!
OK, this is actually a serious query. I hear a lot about RR's offense and playing in space. He wants to put players in space, or get players in space, etc etc. Ok, that makes sense, but doesn't it make sense to every offensive scheme? I mean, is there any offense that does not want its players to get or be open? Doesn't every offense want favorable matchups? No offense wants to put a slow weak guy up against a fast strong guy, after all.
So, how is RR's spread offense any different from any other offense, spread or not? Is it just FORMATIONS? Yeah, its a serious question. I do not understand. I played some high school football, but we ran the UM option offense copied straight out of Bo's playbook. (For some reason, that did not result in me becoming an expert in all offenses.) (I should admit I never started a game and was slow and weak.) And, is there actually an anti-spread offense? I guess you'd call it a "bunched up offense", or a compacted offense? I mean, that would seem to make sense. (yeah, i know...goal line offense yada yada yada)
Now, I am not asking for a highly technical, 1,000 page dissertation--just a reasonable and simple explanation. I also expect some humorous sarcasm and vitrolic insults--which is acceptable as long as it is done in good taste, mind you.
You may start......now.
October 9th, 2009 at 9:59 AM ^
I just assumed he was a large proponent of NASA.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:38 AM ^
space, bitches!
October 9th, 2009 at 6:23 PM ^
The only reason RR can play in space is because Zoltan gave him a month-to-month lease.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:20 AM ^
Just saying?
October 9th, 2009 at 10:25 AM ^
Getting players into space does not mean "We want them open". It means getting players away from the congestion of the O- and D-lines and allowing them to make plays against one or two defenders, instead of trying to run through or behind the O-line (like Wisconsin. Or Carr.)
October 9th, 2009 at 10:40 AM ^
you used one of your life lines didn't you?
FAIL!
October 9th, 2009 at 11:12 AM ^
I have honestly no idea what this means. None.
October 9th, 2009 at 12:37 PM ^
He is making a pop culture reference to the hit TV show, "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?".
October 9th, 2009 at 12:55 PM ^
Yes. I know that. But what does that mean? Was my answer too smart to have come from me? It's a nonsensical reference. But judging by his output in the rest of this thread, that should be expected.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:43 AM ^
The usage of space is the difference between spread and non-spread (80's UM) offenses. The whole point of a non-spread is to outnumber your opponent at the point of attack, and overwhelm them with superior talent, and of course superior numbers. The spread is almost an opposite philosophy.
October 9th, 2009 at 12:18 PM ^
Perhaps a Nebraska-Tom Osborne Offense might also represent the "anti-spread"?
October 9th, 2009 at 7:08 PM ^
The spread philosophy is then to underwhelm them? My bad joke aside, you've got a good point about being the opposite--not only is it to create situations with small numbers but the original goal was fundamentally different than the 80's UM offesne since the spread was, in a lot of ways, designed to win despite inferior talent.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:51 AM ^
most excellent.
you sir, are a genius.
CAW!
October 9th, 2009 at 10:52 AM ^
I strive to attempt to try to be the best.
October 9th, 2009 at 11:44 AM ^
Why don't you just reply to people instead of making a new response and having to call them out. Just a thought.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:54 AM ^
I wouldn't put RR in a box. He says he learned some of his theory by listening to his players.
The spread stretches the field by formation horizontally, creating space in the defense. The recievers and RBs read the D and run routes in reaction to the D formation and coverage. Often these routes are deep to commit the secondary to stretch the field vertically as well.
Where Bo would have a play depend on 4-5 well executed blocks, RR has many plays that depend on 2-3 (or more) well executed reads and 1-2 key blocks that release a receiver into the space the O formation created.
I have a hard time seeing all the routes that are possible in the playbacks. Most of the time, when the Force is making BRs he and the receiver are not on the same page. With Bo, you were either on his page or not playing.
Power football is the opposite of the spread. Tight ends, fullbacks, off tackle ... I like both styles. Most offenses are a combo (including Wisconsin) that offer some spread and read along with smash mouth.
October 9th, 2009 at 12:03 PM ^
Very well stated dude.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:56 AM ^
i can feel the smartness creeping into my brain already!
even the ghey duckhead makes a little sense.
October 9th, 2009 at 11:09 AM ^
BOOM Route66'd errrrr...my bad, I read that wrong. Please fogive and don't shoot me.
October 9th, 2009 at 11:12 AM ^
The offense UM played in the Cap One bowl vs Florida seemed like a great combination of spread and pro style. The downfield, or, "vertical" passing attack was still there, and that seemed to open up the sideways stuff, some reverses, and of course, Mike Hart's running lanes.
If there is one complaint about the spread, it is the lack of vertical passing. What I'm optimistic about with the offense this year is that UM DOES seem to be attempting to open up the passing attack. We've seen the tight end being used downfield, some over the top stuff with Hemingway (expecially against WMU), and some great stuff to the running backs (Indiana and ND).
I think, Elno, that one more aspect of the spread entails having so many options that something should always be there--and this works perfectly with a QB like Tate who, even when scrambling, is looking downfield for open receivers.
I hope the UM offense NEVER resembles what RR ran at WVU. It is just aesthetics, but I like the passing game--about 25 passes per game, and I love what Tate can do with it.
I have a question, though, for others as well: Does pure pass blocking suffer? What about those times when you do straight dropback passing (if you are behind or just because you want to)?
October 9th, 2009 at 11:52 AM ^
I totally agree, and I think Rich Rod had alot to do with LC's sudden use of the spread against Florida. I'm hopeful and I think that our offense will resemble Cap One Bowl '07 once we have everything up and running.
October 9th, 2009 at 11:16 AM ^
ARe you sure you have enough mogopoints to post here?
October 9th, 2009 at 11:22 AM ^
Says the guy asking seriously what it means to get players into space.
Your trolling interests me not.
October 9th, 2009 at 11:29 AM ^
It's probably the Viton
October 9th, 2009 at 11:28 AM ^
back in my days in the European League we ran an offense called the circle. 10 guys form a circle around the ball carrier and then we slowly fight out way down the field. that's kinda anti-spread. impossible to stop as well.
October 9th, 2009 at 11:28 AM ^
says the guy who keeps responding.
Its kewl. I understand.
CAW muthafuckas! CAW!
with a side of potato salad.
Hey, King of Belch--you da man! (BTW)
October 9th, 2009 at 11:49 AM ^
why don't YOU sing kumbaya with IM4UMich? It seems like you'd make a lovely couple.
potato salad.
October 9th, 2009 at 11:56 AM ^
Brian, I think it's ban hammer time.
(BTW, Let me guess. He's going to write a completely new comment to slam me rather than replying to this one.)
October 9th, 2009 at 12:14 PM ^
But I DON'T!
I'll call you out for being weak as well as a bit of a C-BOMB for calling on Daddy to ban someone.
WEAK! Go back to Scout, lil girl! Daddy will protect your precious feelings there.
October 9th, 2009 at 12:52 PM ^
Elno's not a troll. He's a chimp.
October 9th, 2009 at 12:02 PM ^
I'm gonna apologize. I am sorry. Please forgive me. It just got good to me and I couldn't stop.
October 9th, 2009 at 12:16 PM ^
I'll take you seriously for a moment:
"And, is there actually an anti-spread offense? I guess you'd call it a "bunched up offense", or a compacted offense? I mean, that would seem to make sense. (yeah, i know...goal line offense yada yada yada)"
The WING-T.
http://www.fbforyouth.com/Resources/wingt.jpg
October 9th, 2009 at 12:23 PM ^
The Steelers use the bunch formation quite often - you'll see them line up with three receivers right next to the OL, as seen below. Personally, I love the formation because Big Ben always seems to find an open receiver. They run crossing routes and deep routes out of it. I'm surprised we see it so rarely in NCAA, but I think Indiana might have busted it out once or twice.
October 9th, 2009 at 3:26 PM ^
Strangely enough, this "bunch formation" is actually used to get the athletes in space- once they have picked and "rubbed" the defensive backs off on another. It's a very difficult formation to defend, and typically will have the inside receiver run a "out," the outside receiver run a "drag" or crossing pattern and a post/slant/or go from the middle guy. Sometimes.
October 9th, 2009 at 1:18 PM ^
Last week my local high school played a team that uses the exact same formation every play: two tight ends, three backs, everybody crammed in tight. With a good team, typical scoring drives can last at least eight minutes because it seldom gains a big play but it almost always gains just enough yards to keep the drive going. I don't know what it's called, but it's stupendously boring and a pain to photograph. I don't have a photo, but I do have this handy diagram:
That's way more accurate than it should be.
That's way more accurate than it should be.October 9th, 2009 at 1:23 PM ^
If I remember Bill Walsh College Football correctly, this formation is the T formation.
October 9th, 2009 at 2:58 PM ^
It's good to know the real name of the formation. But I've gotten in the habit of calling it the Group Hug offense, and I'll probably keep calling it that.
October 9th, 2009 at 1:19 PM ^
"I also expect some humorous sarcasm and vitrolic insults--which is acceptable as long as it is done in good taste, mind you."
Me
What part of that don't you understand?
CAW! Potato Salad.....what Belch said. Listen, if you guys can be insulted by an internet eblog, you have serious emotional issues and should seek therapy immediately, or just freakin shoot yourself in the face. Were you munged enuf as children?
October 9th, 2009 at 1:31 PM ^
some great responses in this thread. seriously. thank you.
got a kick out of sgt. wolverines diagram. but he looks a little old to be in high school.
October 9th, 2009 at 3:03 PM ^
Hey, some people are professional college students; others are professional high school students. Don't judge me.
Actually, I just spend my time watching high school sports because I have an excuse: I photograph them for the local newspaper. Since I'm a sports fan, it works out pretty well for me. And since my local high school has a good football program, Friday nights in the fall are fun.
October 9th, 2009 at 1:23 PM ^
Really really really simplified version:
The Spread is a formation, yes, but use of the formation in recent years has been accompanied by a change in philosophy.
A bunch formation's philosophy is to attack from such a small area that the key actions of the play will take place very soon after the snap. It tries to maximize exploitation of the offense's advantage of knowing what play is being called first. From a Wing-T, the blockers' assignments are nearby, and it's very hard to figure out who has the ball before it's too late. Before the defense can react to the play, the offense has already executed its key blocks/routes/etc.
In doing so, the offense minimizes turnovers (a killer for offenses) and has a very small chance of negative or short yardage. In effect, you end up maximizing blockers at the line of scrimmage each play.
WWII analogy: Battle of the Bulge -- the Germans send in a concentration of power that is nigh undefendable, able to strike in whichever direction it sees a crease. The strategy is guaranteed to have initial success, but the gains become progressively less the longer the push lasts.
The philosophy that accompanies the spread formation is that you give up the surprise factor and instead just make the defense cover as much field as possible. Plays take a lot longer to develop, but they also can potentially hit so much more space that somewhere you're likely to end up with an open area.
WWII analogy: Operation Overlord -- the Allies hit targets along almost the entirety of the French coastline, making heavy use of subterfuge, so that German defenses will become too spread out to adequately cover any one spot -- then that spot is hit and the offense is either repelled spectacularly, or breaks through spectacularly.
Both philosophies are used by all offenses -- the difference is in how often one or the other is relied on, and the strategic soundness of how each is deployed. DeBord actually ran a hybrid of these two strategies, but was less effective than he could have because he was way too predictable in his choice of point-of-attack. In converse, RR/Magee are perhaps the best in college football at making the point-of-attack unpredictable.
October 9th, 2009 at 1:30 PM ^
the war analogy was exceptionally kewl. thank you.
aside from a couple of ultrasensive priacks in this thread, it has been very educational for me. keep it coming.
October 9th, 2009 at 1:58 PM ^
Here is an advantage of being Lost In Space involving even more Robinson's than M football, and one evil Smith, Dr. Smith. God what a horrible show.
October 9th, 2009 at 2:09 PM ^
I cannot understand why Brain Cook has not moved this thread to the front page yet. It has diagrams, charts, explanations, pictures, video, music, controversy--its the one stop shop for the eblogs on the interwebs!
DANGER WILL ROBINSON!
October 9th, 2009 at 3:07 PM ^
dude, was just messin with ya.
i enjoy the hs games too. never a bad seat. no real bad traffic. honest, entertaining competition. hot young girls. no, scratch that last one.
Go Blue!
CAW!
October 9th, 2009 at 3:25 PM ^
I know. I haven't yet figured out the secret of sounding good-natured when I write good-natured comments. No potato salad for me.
I have the bonus of watching the games from the sideline, which is the best seat in the house as far as I'm concerned. The only hazard is the potential of being run over by the players -- something that almost happened two weeks ago! -- but I've stayed out of the way to this point. Of course, now that I say that...
I've also gotten to watch a few really good players come through the program here. One was a starter on Northwestern's offensive line (he's now on the coaching staff here), and another was a tight end at WMU before going on to be a second-round draft pick of the Denver Broncos (he's still with the Broncos). I think we do okay for a small-town program in Michigan.
October 9th, 2009 at 6:38 PM ^
I'm pretty sure that NASA is ripping off RichRod's offense. Just today I heard that they shot a rocket out into SPACE.
Way too many carbs in potato salad, btw.