Losing brings clarity: Michigan no longer a fraud

Submitted by stillMichigan on

Okay. The jury is back on our D, hence our team. Three straight teams have deliberated and have come back in unison. WE WERE A FRAUD THE FIRST 5 GAMES. Exposed. Is that a bad thing? Not entirely. Maybe not at al.

Let's say we had pulled out a couple of those games.Suppose we ended up the year at 9-3. Our defense still sucks. Would DB or RR be forced to make a change from what we all suspected- that GERG is not a very good DC- to bring in a championship calibre DC who can run his own show? No.  And if RR doesn't jump on board with that way of thinking he will be gone I would think.

One thing we aren't gonna do is muddle along and be a fraud. We suck bigtime on D and the fact that even our great offense can't overcoime that is good in the long run I believe. Losing makes it unacceptable. Winning some 45-41 games would just cloud the picture. We have clarity. Winning those games would just delude RR to the fact that the status quo will get it done. GERG has accomplished here precisely what he accomplished at Syracuse and I'd wager precisely what he'll accomplish if he stays any longer. No way can his defense win a Big 10 title. He doesn't bring out the best in his players.

Fire GERG now or after the season- looks like the latter is the only likely scenario based on presser comments- and Michigan can be a championship calibre team under RR if he learns from this  If he doesn't learn from this then he doesn't deserve to be the coach of a Michigan football team. 

Don't get me wrong, this losing shit is getting old. Games are torturous to watch. I'm just trying to see some light at the end of the tunnel.  Maybe losing now will be better in the long haul. I will pull for us to win every game the rest of the way, but if we lose all or most of them it changes nothing. If we win most of them while giving up massive points it changes nothing. GERG has got to go.

Geaux_Blue

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^

and it's that the new defensive coordinator should be hired by committee. i can't help but feel, with RR's personality and the failure of the past two selections, that RR really picks guys he can work with and might not be asking the right questions. having D Brandon, his entire major coaching staff and perhaps even program advisors (lookin at you Lloyd!), the team needs to be careful and weighted with their pick BECAUSE of the obvious strength on the offensive side of the ball.

michgoblue

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:07 PM ^

Is this "hiring by committee" approach common?  I know that for HC jobs, there is often a committee, but for coordinators, the hrie is usually made by the HC because that person reports directly to the HC.  Having a DC thrust upon RR who he did not pick might result in some serious staff in-fighting issues.  Not saying that it can's work, but I would just be curious to know whether this is common practice?

Geaux_Blue

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^

but i'm offering it as a sign of good-will by RR given he's 0-2 on his own selection and would be brought back next year. unless a certain gentleman bolts WVU... i dunno how else to feel better than to know the brightest minds gathered to make the decision. also in-fighting is about half as apocalypse as the past two selections. 

michgoblue

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:18 PM ^

I agree - in-fighting couldn't possibly produce as bad of a result as we are seeing.  To me, thought, the larger issue is that if RR cannot be trusted to make a DC hire, then it leads to questions as to whether he should be our HC.  Hiring competent coordinators is a cirtical part of being the HC.  What happens in 3 or 4 years when this new DC bolts to the NFL and we are faced with another hiring situation?  Will be need to re-form a committee? 

Not saying that this alone is reason for firing RR, but if this is a real concern, then it my mind, it is another negative to consider.

BlockM

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^

I just don't get why RR would object if a fantastic DC was willing to come in and just take over that side of the ball. RR is still called the head coach, and he doesn't have to deal with it. Sounds like a win-win, with the biggest winners being anyone who cares about how many games we win.

trueblue262

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:38 PM ^

It's the head coach, you either have faith in him and his decisions or you don't. We either want him as our coach making the decisions or we don't. Let's not make this even a more gray area than it already is. If we can't trust the guy to hire a decent DC, then how do we expect the parents of these recruits to trust him with their kids?

michgoblue

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:05 PM ^

If RR was able to get us to 9-3, even with a sub-par defense, then he is doing something right.  9-3 is not a fraud.  9-3 would mean we beat Purdue, Illinois, PSU and one of Iowa, MSU or Wisco.  (obviously, other combinations are possible, but this would have been the most likelt road to 9-3).  If RR did that, then there is no fraud.  Then the team was good enough to finish second or third in the B10 with a young QB and ridiculously young D.

Also, I am just curious (no snark intended), are you going to root for Michigan the next two weeks?  If the belief is that the team really is broken and that only serious change is going to help (something that I agree with, by the way), then the most likely way to get that change would be for us to finish 5-7 or 6-6.  I could never root against Michigan, though. 

Mattinboots

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:07 PM ^

I agree in part. 

In regards to being exposed, I agree that it's better than limping to a few more victories if that would lead to the AD and coaches ignoring the problem on defense.

The defensive side of the ball needs to be examined under a microscope to determine whether we've got a virus we'll have to let run it's course or cancer that needs to be removed quickly and thoroughly.  There is no way this problem is fixed with a simple "Fire GERG" action.

TennBlue

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^

I went out on a limb and gave a very rosy 8-4 as a hopeful best case for this team.  7-5 or even 6-6 seemed very possible looking at the schedule.  The only game that has gone other than I had anticipated was the MSU game, who turned out to be a whole lot better than anybody expected this year.

I refuse to get pissed at the team for being exactly what I thought it would be in August.  I expect improvement from year to year, and overall we've gotten that.  The defense is worse, but the offense is 100x better than last year, for overall net progress.

I expect to see more progress next year.  We might be good for 9 wins then if we get lucky.  Reality is a cruel mistress.  We don't get to win just because we're Michigan.  We need talent and experience combined with good coaching.  It's a recipe that can't be rushed no matter how much you want to.

Waxing Gibbous

November 2nd, 2010 at 3:03 PM ^

up to the defense is worse but the offense is 100x better  for overall net progress.

Overall net progress would be winning at least one game and preferrably two that we lost last year, not what the stat sheet looks like for Denard.

There's still 4 more chances for that to happen, and if it does I'm right on board with increased expectations for next year. If it doesn't, I have a hard time seeing how the win total goes from 5 or 6 to 9.

GreyJello

November 2nd, 2010 at 5:09 PM ^

Some turnovers would help.  This team hasn't gotten a single turnover in the last three games.  If we can win a couple turnover battles in the final four games, I think we have a good shot at 7-5 and a bowl.

TrueBlue88

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:22 PM ^

the same. I love RR as our HC and i love his no huddle spread offense! Just take a look at that team for Eugene OR. My major problem with him is why cant he hire as good DC and let him set the defensive staff? Kinda like saban only concentrates on D and leaves the O to the OC. I think that is what needs to be done for him to succeed in Ann Arbor! Maybe Casteel will come if we throw enough $$$ at him...who knows we just need a good defensive mind to come to A2. Can anyone imagine how scary good this team would be if we could field a DECENT D!?

Hail

Ziff72

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:39 PM ^

I was noticing a big trail off in fire Greg posts, but somehow we found another guy that thought he had an original enough thought that it couldn't be posted on Brian's posts.

Don

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:43 PM ^

I think you nailed it. Everything I heard from RR after his selection of GR was about how they can work together and Gerg was going to mesh seamlessly with his staff and so forth. I have the feeling neither RR or GR ever asked each other these questions:

• What kind of base defensive scheme do you want to run?

• Do you prefer an aggressive, blitzing attack, or are you bend-and-hopefully-don't-break?

• What will you do if I decide mid-season that you're doing it all wrong and I tell you what to do?

• What will you do if my position coaches subvert me and come whining to you?

• Do you like to recruit? If not, why not?

• Do you like to teach fundamentals of blocking, tackling, and pursuit angles?

• Do you think multiple fronts are best given our roster, or are we better off running one base defense and just doing that very well?

• Do you believe that practice is everything, or are some players more likely to shine in games?

Yooper

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:44 PM ^

   Now we have people advancing the notion that we should be happier to finish at 6-6 or 7-5 than if we finished 9-3.   Wow. 

stillMichigan

November 2nd, 2010 at 2:57 PM ^

We just got shredded by a walk-on starting his first game. Evan Royster ran wild on us. We lost. I'm not happy about that. Was so rude to my wife that night she wouldn't speak to me on Sunday. I hate to lose. But if we are gonna lose, and it's pretty clear we did and will probably lose a few more,  then I'm just gonna look at the big picture and hope that this is the impetus for something better next year and 2012

ijohnb

November 2nd, 2010 at 3:07 PM ^

of hearing just about the defense.  I think that last Saturday, the consensus become that "somebody has to be fired," and with Brian's post, that somebody has become Greg Robinson.  Please, halftime against MSU - 10 points on offense.  Halftime against Iowa - 7 points on offense.  Halftime against Penn State - 10 points.  Teams are getting massive leads on us and we are basically padding the score during garbage time.  Everybody knew the defense was young, everybody knew the defense was lacking, what nobody expected was that this team would be in shootouts and THE OFFENSE would not hold up its end of the bargain.  What is going on right now is pure scapegoating.   Listen, maybe somebody needs to be fired, maybe nobody needs to be fired, but the pouring on Greg Robinson is ridiculous.  It is only happening because the head coach has not made it clear that the buck stops with him.  Since when does a fan base pile on a f#%king defensive coordinator who is being instructed to run a certain kind of defense he doesn't have the personnel to run!?!

Enough.

NOLA Wolverine

November 2nd, 2010 at 3:16 PM ^

Finally someone looks at the whole picture. We need to stop docotoring our analysis to be in favor of Rich Rodriguez (People have made unbiased analysis, but if anyone wants to dispute that this bias is normal, please do), and start looking at it how it is.

aawolve

November 2nd, 2010 at 3:29 PM ^

when opponents consistently grind out long drives. Our offense only had the ball for 22 minutes in the entire PSU game, and scored 31 points. The problem is the defense.

ijohnb

November 2nd, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^

defense is a problem, no doubt.  Whose responsibility is the defense?  If you say Greg Robinson to the exclusion or Rich Rodriguez, you are not thinking straight.  RR already fired one defensive coordinator.  He cannot play that card again.  It comes back to him.  Accept it.

BraveWolverine730

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:09 PM ^

Did I miss something and games all of a sudden end at halftime? I'm sure you can take any team in the country not named Oregon and divide 30 minute intervals in games where they score 10 points or 7 points.  To not see the enormous progress in this offense(which is still not at its maximum potential) is blind at best and moronic at worst..  That is why people have determined that Robinson needs to go instead of Rodriguez.  Look at Illinois, they cleaned out staff, gave him one more year, and have been the surprise team of the Big Ten.  And finally, how much 3-3-5 have we run the last couple weeks? The meme about GERG being forced to run this system and not working in the Big Ten needs to stop.

Woodson2

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:46 PM ^

Hardly garbage time when Michigan was a serious threat to win the game against Penn State and Iowa had the defense been able to make a few tackles. Sure the offense has started slow but they produce plenty during the course of a normal game. The other team is not running prevent defenses in the 3rd quarter. If the offense was so easy to stop then teams wouldn't let their foot off the gas especially against Michigan who teams have been whipped by for years in the Big Ten. Teams have no mercy against us why would they let up before the game is in hand, doesn't make any sense.

I agree that Robinson isn't at fault for this defensive machination. It's just a horribly talented and inexperienced group who need to do a lot of work on tackling over the summer. Before talking about firing coaches look at the talent on the defensive side of the ball. We have a decimated defense, this didn't change prior to the Penn State game. Why is everyone so up in arms when we know how bad this defense is?

sportsfreak0819

November 2nd, 2010 at 3:53 PM ^

 we need to give RichRod one more year to work with "his" recruits

2008- didn't have anything to work with

2009- RR first recruiting class came in

2010- RR second recruiting class came in

He's basically in his second year right now... We need to give him that third year (2011) to work with an experienced and explosive offense and a more experienced defense.

Tha Stunna

November 2nd, 2010 at 4:34 PM ^

This post is pretty dumb.  Routinely giving up 35 points on defense would be bad regardless of whether Michigan scores 20 or 50.  I don't see how losing more games significantly alters the equation so that Greg Robinson should be fired; he should or should not be based on the overall performance of the defense.

Also, if you don't believe RR is smart enough to figure out when he needs a new DC, you should believe that he isn't the right coach for Michigan.  Any coach who abdicates control of half of his team and can't be trusted to evaluate their performance should not be a head coach.

As it stands, I'm going to pessimistically wait.  There's only two must win games left - either one will do, probably.