[LOCKED] OT: Ole Miss band will no longer play "Dixie"

Submitted by crg on

FYI.  Is this a case of politcal correctness harming college football tradition, long overdue social justice, or something in-between?  While UM football hasn't had to deal with the same history that many southern schools have on this issue, it isn't unassailable either (e.g. Fielding Yost keeping a black player, Willis Ward, out versus Georgia Tech) - so this does have some relevance here.  At least this Ole Miss headline isn't about Hugh Freeze... yet.

 

POST-LOCK EDIT:  I was really hoping this could last for at least a few hours before getting killed.  So much for level-headed discourse.  Oh well - I suppose MOMS know best.

 

http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/08/19/ole-miss-rebels-marching-…

 

MOD EDIT - Well, that went about as well as you could have imagined. Locking this, as apparently feelings on this are - and I cannot imagine why - strangely complex. - LSA

MGoBoard
Football

Ronnie Kaye

August 20th, 2016 at 3:37 PM ^

I know you were asking the question and not showing your hand but the wondering what should take priority between racial sensitivity and college football tradition sounds awfully ridiculous, doesn't it?

Joined: 05/09/2015

MGoPoints: 104

stephenrjking

August 20th, 2016 at 3:52 PM ^

C'mon, there is no way to comment on this without being political. It doesn't reflect poorly on the mgouserbase that an issue like this can't be discussed extensively on a board that has a no-politics policy. Politics are unavoidable here if you want to have any opinion at all.

Joined: 03/15/2012

MGoPoints: 20143524

crg

August 20th, 2016 at 4:02 PM ^

There are so many intricacies and idiosynchrocies about college football that nearly any subject can be transformed into a political tantrum if the commentors desired (e.g. tackling/contact rules, recruiting regulations, student-athlete compensation, mascot names/portrayals, coaching salaries, etc.) - so I would argue that this issue is not fundamentally different (though perhaps easier to inflame passions).  Also, I wasn't stating that MGoBloggers were any more inflammatory in their comments than any other site (I think we can actually have some rational adult discussions... sometimes), but I think it's a shame that any discussion can be voided simply by the hints of politcal issues.

Joined: 04/30/2015

MGoPoints: 75054

stephenrjking

August 20th, 2016 at 4:11 PM ^

You are right that many can become political. But even a basic value judgment on this is political. If someone says, "This is a bad move," how is that interpreted politically? How can anyone elaborate against or in favor of such a position without touching on political issues? I just don't see it.

The response to the hidden (suspended) first comment is an example of this. There's no way that response is not political. No way at all.

Joined: 03/15/2012

MGoPoints: 20143524

enlightenedbum

August 20th, 2016 at 5:04 PM ^

How I feel about those depends on two elements:

1) Are they caricatures? (Chief Wahoo, as the most obvious example)

2) How do the tribal governments feel about the representation?  To the best of my knowledge, the Seminole tribe is fine with how FSU handles it while the Sioux tribes in the Dakotas were generally not supportive of how UND handled it.

Joined: 06/06/2009

MGoPoints: 64388

LKLIII

August 20th, 2016 at 3:41 PM ^

I dunno man. If Ole Miss won't play "Dixie" to become more racially sensitive, you'd think they'd get rid of their (I'm assuming) plantation owning confederate soldier mascot too.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 11/06/2013

MGoPoints: 8927

WolvinLA2

August 20th, 2016 at 3:47 PM ^

Yeah, I agree with that.  I have the same stance on this as I do with Native American mascot names - I don't see it as being all that offensive and it's part of our history so I don't see what the problem is with it.  I'm also white, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

Joined: 11/13/2009

MGoPoints: 58191

stephenrjking

August 20th, 2016 at 4:04 PM ^

If you were discussing African Americans using those logical qualifiers you would be excoriated as a racist.

I don't know many people from Mississippi. I've heard enough accounts from people to know that there is still racism in the South, but also that there are a lot of good people in the South that don't fit the cultural stereotype many from educated or coastal backgrounds have of them. I also know that I have had to work hard to overcome a natural prejudice against the South and against accents of that origin that comes from growing up in Ann Arbor, where ripping on that region and the people who live there was a popular passtime. 

Like any area, there are bad people in the South. But there are also good people. Many of them. Statements that cast aspersions on all of them as a group are foolish. There's a good chance that, given its history, there is a disproportionate number of people in Mississippi who are racist. The term "many of them" is unprovable but at least not categorical, the same way that saying there are "many" Michigan State fans in Michigan is a lot different from saying that all people in Michigan are Michigan State fans.

 

Joined: 03/15/2012

MGoPoints: 20143524

WolvinLA2

August 20th, 2016 at 4:18 PM ^

Generalizing people by race is not the same as generalizing people based on where they choose to live. Or anything they choose. I can say, "Ohio State fans are awful people." I can't substitute "black people" and have the statement still be OK. Because that's different. I think we're arguing over symantics here. You're acknowledging that a disproportionate number of people in MS are racist, and I used the term "everyone." Clearly, I don't really think "everyone" in any state is any one thing, I chose that wording for emphasis. Just like I don't think all Ohio State fans are awful people. Some are decent human being, I imagine. They just don't have access to the Internet. My point was - Mississippi is a racist place. The songs choices of the marching band won't help that imagine by a measurable amount.

Joined: 11/13/2009

MGoPoints: 58191

stephenrjking

August 20th, 2016 at 4:24 PM ^

Really? If people make disparaging comments about people who live in Detroit, how will that be perceived?

Prejudice is prejudice no matter who it is directed against. What makes Mississippi a "racist" place? How is it, say, more quantifiably racist than Chicago? I have acknowledged that it is *possible* that a disproportinate number of people in MS are racist. But we have no evidence of this, just theories based on history and based on our own... prejudices.

It is very easy and comforting to look down on states or regions as inferior to our own. Many do. But the way you are doing so is merely a more socially acceptable version of the same prejudice you attribute to those in Mississippi.

Joined: 03/15/2012

MGoPoints: 20143524

kalamazoo

August 20th, 2016 at 4:31 PM ^

Phrases like "Everyone" or "All" have started to be weeded out...this is a focus of part of the GMAT exam...it's taught at elementary schools sometimes...taught by parents at times. The US has already come a long way from when I was a kid...less stereotyping language...semantics do matter. There is no way for us to "Clearly" understand what you are thinking. And your semantics are still a form of marketing affecting others with whom you discuss this topic as being an "ok" way to phrase things.

Try rephrasing with "I seem to have heard and seen a higher percentage of racist 'actions' from individuals from Mississippi compared to individuals from other states."

At that leaves room for others from Mississippi as being good people. It also suggests that one 'action' does not define a person forever. Everyone is learning...not everyone is meaning to be racist, or if they do, may still change their actions to be less racist over time.

Joined: 08/20/2010

MGoPoints: 2564

ElBictors

August 20th, 2016 at 4:33 PM ^

I know and have known quite a few folks from MS, some of whom live there now and some who do not.  I have to say, although Miss State crew and not Ole Miss, most are pretty "good old boy racist" when it comes to it.  They'd sometimes say things in front of eachother they wouldn't say in shared company, but you can say that about a lot of folks.

And I'd say they'd call their view "Southern Pride" ...in an odd way it is defending their history

Joined: 03/27/2015

MGoPoints: 8446

kalamazoo

August 20th, 2016 at 4:20 PM ^

Don't underestimate progress, one needle-moving event at a time.

Even the Dixie change took years of building sentiment.

Now you will have a whole new generation of pre-teens not as influenced by this song or promoting it. When they are in college, they will find some new forms of racism disturbing and will even have pride that their state got rid of Dixie years ago. They can then help support the next needle moving change.

It's so hard to get everything at once. The world is more about slow bits of progress.

Joined: 08/20/2010

MGoPoints: 2564

drjaws

August 20th, 2016 at 3:55 PM ^

If it's OK for people to drive around with confederate flags on their trucks, Ole Miss should be able to play Dixie.

Whether it's a good idea or not regardless of "tradition" is another story and probably not appropriate for this blog.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 02/26/2014

MGoPoints: 46646

stephenrjking

August 20th, 2016 at 4:07 PM ^

Not legally. But just because something is legal doesn't mean it is either wise or morally defensible. There is no law that would prevent the University of Michigan from, say, hanging the Canadian Flag upside down at Michigan Stadium to insult Canada. But it would be very, very stupid to do so. 

Joined: 03/15/2012

MGoPoints: 20143524

WolvinLA2

August 20th, 2016 at 4:21 PM ^

No one is talking about legality. Ole Miss isn't prohibited from playing Dixie, they're making that choice for PR purposes (or because they think it's the right thing to do, either way it's not a legal thing). The guy above was equating some backwards redneck flying a rebel flag with what the university will use to represent itself. That's not the same at all.

Joined: 11/13/2009

MGoPoints: 58191

stephenrjking

August 20th, 2016 at 4:28 PM ^

I guess we're disagreeing on matters of scale here. I am personally quite offended when I see confederate flags no matter who is flying them, but I grant that it is a much more serious issue when an institution promotes it rather than one individual that can be ignored.

One amusing story: I don't like to point out things to make fun of, but I was driving a busload of kids and saw a pickup with a full-window confederate flag window cling. So I waved everybody on the bus forward so they could see what such a person would keep in their truck bed. The answer?

At least 30 old Mcdonald's bags filled with their old food garbage.

Joined: 03/15/2012

MGoPoints: 20143524