lilpenny1316

June 23rd, 2015 at 12:07 PM ^

I wasn't crazy about the on field results, but he's still the same man who stopped practice in the summer of 1995 so the guys could have an ice cream break.  He was loyal to a fault with his coaches.  And I never saw him throw his players under the bus.  He gave tough love when needed, which is so hard to do with a lot kids these days.  The guy did a lot of things right on the scoreboard of life.

4EverBlueGirl

June 23rd, 2015 at 12:16 PM ^

Many can and have said things about Carr the coach, but I can't toss a single stone at a grandfather that is watching his 4 year old grandson battle a brain tumor.

I get it...someone asked Carr his opinion and he gave it. 

Ugh, I hate the off season.

bronxblue

June 23rd, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^

I'm not a huge Carr fan, but I'm going to need some citation to examples of "scorched" Michigan football (beyond whatever happened with RR) to back up this claim.  All HC's are a little crazy and dominating; you don't get to that position with it.  But Carr seemed pretty mellow compared to most.

Blazefire

June 23rd, 2015 at 10:05 AM ^

"Carr then politely ask if he could please return to his book, a collection of Thoreau works, and, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, for this reporter to close the office door on his way out."

Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

lilpenny1316

June 23rd, 2015 at 10:24 AM ^

Then I can't help you.  Lloyd's last outright B1G title, which is also the last time he beat OSU was 2003.  Last B1G title, shared, was 2004.  2-5 in his last seven bowl games.  He beat Tressel only once.

He didn't ruin Michigan, but he did not leave it trending upward.

lilpenny1316

June 23rd, 2015 at 10:52 AM ^

We almost lost to Ball State, OSU exposed our vaunted defense, and USC embarrased us.

2007 was average.  2005 was mediocre.  And the recruiting class LC was assembling for 2008 was not up to Michigan standards either.  LC inherited Charles Woodson and a slew of talent (Toomer, Hayes, Biakabutuka).  RichRod, nor Hoke, inherited an amount a talent comparable to what LC had.

jg2112

June 23rd, 2015 at 11:00 AM ^

Wasn't Lloyd the DC when Woodson committed? If he inherited him, it was only because he helped bring him in. 

Did Lloyd inherit A-Train, Henson, Navarre, Perry, Woodley, Burgess, Hall, Brady, Hutchinson, Manningham, Hart, Henne, Breaston, Braylon, etc.etc.etc.etc.

Stay off the stupid pills.

lilpenny1316

June 23rd, 2015 at 11:49 AM ^

Hall, Brady, Rob Renes, Hutchinson, Backus, Brandt were part of the 1995 recruiting class, which was Moeller's last as head coach.  And none of those guys were around when LC left.  Even if Manningham and Arrington would've stayed, that's a third round and seventh round draft choice.  The point is that the talent LC inherited was greater than what RichRod and subsuquently Hoke had.  

And if you're going to mention all those guys, realize that there were only two B1G titles won without any members of the 1995 recruiting class.  So you only got two B1G titles with Perry, Woodley, Hart, Braylon...

snarling wolverine

June 23rd, 2015 at 12:11 PM ^

I don't understand why you keep harping on Carr "inheriting" that class when he played a major role in putting it together.  It's a silly argument to make.  

And you are mistaken: he won three B1G titles without that class - 2000, 2003, and 2004.

If you want to argue that he wasn't quite at the top of his game at the end, OK, but it feels like you don't want to give him much credit at all.  This is a coach who won 75% of his games over 13 years and brought home a national title.

 

 

 

lilpenny1316

June 23rd, 2015 at 12:42 PM ^

Backus, Hutchinson, Brandt (O-Line) and Eric Wilson (DT) were part of the 1995 class. With Henson injured, that O-Line had a huge responsibility to keep the offense rolling. 

All I'm saying about "inheritances" is that he had a lot of talent at his disposal that first year.  They don't beat OSU without Biakabutuka.  And they don't beat UVA without Mercury Hayes' tippytoes.  Who knows if Lloyd is around in 1996 if we don't win those games?  

It's not my mission in life to sound like Drew Sharp.  I enjoyed the 1997-2004 teams, and I love the fact that Lloyd prepared his guys for life, not just football.  But I always felt that this team was talented enough to do better than winning only 75% of their games, considering all the NFL talent we produced.

lilpenny1316

June 23rd, 2015 at 2:37 PM ^

and other endeavors when RichRod was HC.  He still loved the school even if he was distant from the football team.

I remember when Johnny Majors was forced out for Phil Fulmer.  That was sabatoge.  That was also SEC at its finest.  All parties can share blame in the LC/RR transition and they have all moved on.  We can also.  

Bodogblog

June 23rd, 2015 at 11:47 AM ^

Almost doesn't count - lots of good teams almost lost somewhere along the way, but didn't.  The OSU game in Columbus was one for the ages - they had a fantastic offense, so did Michigan.  And USC was the best team in the country that year.  2006 was a great team.  

EDIT: 
- Michigan put in their 2nd stringers once they got out to a 31-12 lead against Ball State.  The ended up winning by 8.  It was uncomfortably close to being 2-pt lead late, but saying they almost lost is inaccurate. 

- holy fuck that team was loaded: Henne, Hart, Long, Breaston, Manningham, Lamarr Woodley, Leon Hall, Alan Branch, David Harris, Shawn Crable (no!), Tim Jamison.  They lost to two great teams, one on the road, the other a virtual road game.  This was a great, great team. 

rambouhh

June 23rd, 2015 at 5:12 PM ^

We had some tough losses but 2007 was still a great team that got off to a rough start. Don't forget we beat a higher ranked Florida team that had Urban Meyer, Tim Tebow (the year he won the heisman), Percy Harvin, and it was the team that won the NC the year before and the year after. We still had the talent and that game showed that Carr could still coach.

UMxWolverines

June 23rd, 2015 at 5:36 PM ^

Why do so many Michigan fans use this as an excuse? Who cares if Michigan beat Florida in the year Tebow won the Heisman? That Florida team was only 9-3 and they were 9-3 because they lost something like 8 starters on defense from the 2006 team. Them winning the NC the years before and after is pretty much irrelevent.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

June 23rd, 2015 at 11:35 AM ^

It's not mutually exclusive to acknowledge that Lloyd was both a highly successful coach that won a national championship, and a bit of a dinosaur who left the program in sore need of an overhaul.

It is, however, massively dickish to define him by the latter at the expense of the former.

Hail-Storm

June 23rd, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^

Lloyd Carr was the coach when my Michigan Football fandom blew up.  I loved him as a coach.  Yes he frustrated me in letting a few games go that he shouldn't have, but his winning and way of winning were both top notch.

I did dislike him in his associate AD role. Undermine or not, he was in a position where he had a chance to steady the waters and he didn't.  There were a lot of things handled incorrectly during the last seven years, but the AD and football program seem to be in the right hands.

 I have no ill wills towards Hoke, Brady, or Carr.  It was a dark time in Michigan football, but I do believe they all had the best intentions and cared for the program.   Although, at this point, an endorsement doesn't help the program much, it is still a great positive and much better than the alternative. Having a successful previous coach on board is always a good thing. 

Hail-Storm

June 23rd, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^

RR and Hoke times, but I'm in total agreement with you on defending Carr.  The stats you gave also coincides with one of the strongest eras in the BIG10 and included highly competitive non-conference schedules. 

I think people forget how good the BIG was at the end of the 90s and first half of the 2000s. Outside of Indiana, all 11 teams had some fantastic runs and seasons.