Blueshoo

January 8th, 2011 at 11:36 PM ^

Our identity in the "real world" is defined by the quality of the instituition...and that isn't changing. The quality of our football program is judged by wins and losses. And morality, last I checked, was judged individually by God. Nobody knows for sure what happened with Les - it's rumors. And even if it's true, we as bloggers lost the moral high ground as soon as we started spreading them on a message board.

So bottom line, I think we should give Les a chance if he's qualified (he is) and leave the morality judgements for the professionals.

Blueshoo

January 9th, 2011 at 12:30 AM ^

Is shady.  Yes - point made and taken.  I don't know that I would consider it immoral.  Maybe I should, but I don't draw such a black and white distinction.  The other alleged stuff with other coaches wives, etc - that's the immorality that I just don't want to even factor into my approval or disapproval since I'm not there, it's gossip, internet slander/libel, and who knows what all is involved.  That's the part that I think is between man and your God.  The NCAA stuff with oversigning - we gotta be careful there.  But surely you can concede that the Big 10 restrictions would aid in controlling any shananigans up in AA on that issue?  If oversigning is not going to be an issue at Michigan with Les, and we compartmentalize the rest of the rumors, the two "cons" left on Les that we're left with is:

- Age

- Clock Management

So if he has a couple hi-po's on his staff to address the former and a great OC to help him think clearly at the end of games, I guess we're just left with a coach who recruits talent, knows our tradions, and wins.  Oh, and he eats grass. 

Does that about sum it up?

TheIcon34

January 8th, 2011 at 11:20 PM ^

All COACHES lie to kids. I've heard many stories about div I basketball and football recruiting. One player was telling me about Bobby Knight trying to recruit him, only to find out his coach is just like Bobby Knight and concluded that all coaches were like Bobby Knight anyways.

 

Whatever it is that coaches say to kids, they are lying because there is nothing they can guarantee to the kids that they will play or that they will have a fun time in practice or being on the team.

Look at Joe PA...OMG he won't let a qb transfer to another school!!!!! OMG He lied!! Get off your high horse and get over it. I'm sure you have lied to kids before and it is just part of life too. The smart person would lie to save his team and his job, no coach is going to put the interests of a kid above the team because he is paid to run a team, not to individuals. It is a meat market and that is life. Every coach has 1 person who had a bad experience that would haunt the coach for life, but there would be hundreds who had a great experience with the coach, so what is your point? Are we becoming a nation of wussies where we will monitor the intensity level of coaches screaming at their players/team...which is a pretty immoral thing to do! 

TheIcon34

January 8th, 2011 at 11:46 PM ^

Either it is fraud or it is not fraud. Who cares if it is close to fraud when it is not fraud. Also, scholarships are not guaranteed for 4 years because if I remember correctly, a scholarship can be on a year by year basis at the discretion of the coach.  Think about all the football players on the team with scholarships then count how many of the players that do not have scholarships but may be promised one later if they are good enough. That would seem like fraud but it is not. It is just part of college athletics whether we like it or not. I think only 3 sports offer full ride scholarships, thus the rest of scholarships offered are way less and probably more likely to be abused but no one hears about it.

 

If you were a CEO of a company, trust me, you would be teetering on the edge of fraud daily as your sole responsibility is to the shareholders by virtue of profits. If you have to lay off 100 people who cost you a million dollars a year in salary in order to get 100 million in profits, you would do it in a heartbeat, and if you don't, you could be in big doo doo with your shareholders. People will still apply for a job at the same company regardless of what they did in the past anyways. Do you think a recruit is going to say "omg, yes i heard about that poor kid, I'm afraid he is going to do the same thing to me!"

TheIcon34

January 9th, 2011 at 12:41 AM ^

I assume your parents never taught you the right/wrong way to use the word "your" and "you're?"

 

Suppose Les Miles was trying to do the "right" thing by making sure more kids could join his team, but *GASP* the evil NCAA empire would not allow it, thus Les had to do the bad thing and cut him?

Do tell, if you were in a highly paid position like a coach making a million dollars a year and an accident occured at a game or practice where your player was hurt, blinded and soon dying...and you comforted this kid...then this kid said..."dad, is that you?" Do you say "yes" or "no" to the kid, knowing that he was going to die anyways? Do you say "yes" and let the kid die being comforted, or do you become immoral and say "no" because you believe it is the wrong thing to lie and let a kid die in agony knowing his dad was not there comforting him? Do you even lie and say "I love you" to the kid when you really don't? You tell me what the right and wrong thing to do is, and I will lie and do the wrong thing by letting a kid know his dad was the one comforting him and die in peace, because I can live with that decision, regardless of whether people think it was the right or wrong thing to do. Do you kill 1 person to save the lives of 1 million people? Or do you say no I won't kill 1 person, but I'll let 1 million people die? Oh wait, we need have this question asked of all Michigan coaches in the future!!

mackbru

January 8th, 2011 at 11:20 PM ^

Pulling the kid's scholarship was bad. No doubt. My larger question is: Is the over-signing thing illegal (in the NCAA sense), or is it just a loophole the coaches exploited? In other words, could Miles et al eventually get sanctioned?

BostonWolverine

January 8th, 2011 at 11:23 PM ^

I will be fine with Miles as a coach. I have a feeling that he did a lot of what people think makes him morally questionable has more to do with trying to keep pace and win in a conference that spends most of its time looking for loopholes in NCAA regulations.

I doubt he'd bring that crap to the B1G with him. It's like a guy who's going down the highway at 80 when everyone else is going 95.

Or maybe that's just what I'm telling myself so I can rationalize it if he comes here.

Erik_in_Dayton

January 8th, 2011 at 11:35 PM ^

Bo used it to say that he wanted Fisher to coach the basketball team rather than Frieder (spelling?), who had signed on to coach ASU.   Basically, being a "Michigan Man" meant not having a contractual obligation to another program. 

I want a guy who both does the right thing and wins.  I hope that's what makes a "Michigan Man." 

ST3

January 8th, 2011 at 11:33 PM ^

everything you read on the internet? or see in an ESPN video? To assault someone's morals you'd better be sure you are on solid ground. I'm assuming you've personally met Miles. No? Then leave it up to Brandon.

Erik_in_Dayton

January 8th, 2011 at 11:37 PM ^

Miles told the kid things were going well for him after he'd already made the decision to cut him from the team.  Then he told the media that the kid didn't have the desire to play football at LSU, which wasn't true.  I don' t have to be Dave Brandon to see that that sucks. 

ST3

January 8th, 2011 at 11:41 PM ^

I didn't see the video, but I've heard plenty of stories. My point is, do you know if this is a common occurrence or a rarity? Do you know if ESPN cherry-picked a particularly bad story and ignored good things he does? We can't demonize the free press (actually, we can) and then believe ESPN's version of a story. Also, maybe Les realized he made a mistake and went to his pastor for forgiveness. I'm just cautioning you not to make sweeping generalizations based on an ESPN video.

skwasha

January 9th, 2011 at 12:30 AM ^

Two specific cases are cited in the piece. One getting more time than the other. However, publicly available numbers regarding oversignings, etc. make it virtually impossible that they are the only two cases.

Watch the piece, do your own research, then make up your own mind. I fear too many here simply side one way or the other without any due diligence.

artds

January 8th, 2011 at 11:35 PM ^

Personally, I have no problem with them making the kids compete for scholarships. If they get beaten out for the spot, I don't see how they can complain. It's not like they're being kicked off the team. I financed my education with government loans. So can they.

PurpleStuff

January 9th, 2011 at 12:48 AM ^

-Beer is for women.  Les Miles drinks only melted ice directly from the north pole.  The extra boost of electromagnetism is an aphrodisiac.  That is why Les Miles invented global warming.  He is thirsty and likes to bone.

-Les Miles already killed Chuck Norris.  That is why Walker Texas Ranger got cancelled and you don't see him in any of those shitty movies he used to make, like the one with that teenage girl from Seaquest who killed herself. 

-Ditka may join Miles's staff at Michigan.  Physicists are studying if so much power can exist in one place without altering the space/time continuum.  That is why we haven't had a formal announcement of the hire yet.  Math is hard.

Tater

January 8th, 2011 at 11:46 PM ^

MIles screwed Moeller's wife, and lies to his players.  William Clay Brandon screwed RR, and lies to the public.  This is a match made in heaven. 

And because I have been a MIchigan fan too long to stop now, I will support the team no matter who is in either position.  It may make me feel a little dirty, though.