Les Miles and Rich Rod
Anyone still angry that Les Miles is at LSU instead of Michigan? Can anyone make a coherent argument why Les Miles could have coached this team to more wins given the talent level?
LSU should have lost to Troy and now got beat handily by Ole Miss. This after getting spanked by Florida and Georgia and losing to Alabama.
I am not saying Miles is a bad coach, just that he isn't superman either. With a lack of talent teams struggle.
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:10 PM ^
I watched most of this game (between it and the Penn State game) and had much of the same sentiment. I respect Miles, but he definitely didn't do a very good job coaching his team this season. I don't think they handled their quarterback situation very well at all.
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:51 PM ^
How was he supposed to handle it? He's basically got what we have -- a redshirt freshman who was never supposed to start this year and only started because the projected starter left the program (in their case, kicked out of the program). And the backup is basically Nick Sheridan-esque -- Hatch was a transfer from Harvard's JV team.
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:26 PM ^
Not true. They played the equivalent of Threet/Sheridan in Lee/Hatch and left Jefferson (their quarterback for the future) on the bench until today, at which point they essentially said "what the fuck do we have to lose?" and put him in (he had played a few plays before today for a total of 7 passes) at which point he went 10-20, 129 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, and rushed for 23 yards. He actually played pretty well (I'm guessing you didn't watch the LSU game?). It was plainly obvious as far back as the Auburn game that neither Hatch nor Lee were going to cut it. Why they didn't make the move to Jefferson at that point is why I said what I did about his handling of the quarterback situation.
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:41 AM ^
You can have a great coash but if you dont have the players, it doesnt matter how motivating the coach is the team will stil lose.
Lombardi was an amazing coach but he had great players to execute his great schemes.
RR will hopefully bring back W's if and when he gets HIS type of talent. Michigan will not be this bad next year.
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:12 PM ^
both teams lack a good qb
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:21 PM ^
LSU's QB had like 7 pick six plays this year, ugly.
Houston Nutt is a good coach though. I am not surprised Ole Miss beat LSU.
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:26 PM ^
Mallett probably would have stayed if we had hired les. Not that mallett is that great, but he probably would have given us a few more wins
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:31 PM ^
Not to mention QB recruit John Weinke would've stayed committed to UM had Miles been hired. Arrington and Boren would've still been here, too.
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:41 PM ^
How in God's name do you know who would have stayed if Miles was the hire? By all accounts, Mallett was debating leaving anyway, had problems with Carr, wasn't going to class, and was universally disliked by his teammates. Many people believe that Boren never really wanted to be a Wolverine. Arrington may or may not have stayed, but after the Florida game, it's not unreasonable to envision a situation where he had made his mind up to leave anyway.
And, mind you, all of this is notwithstanding the fact that we tried to hire Miles and he didn't want to leave LSU.
I mean, fuck.
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:40 PM ^
we never tried to hire les miles. did not happen
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:58 PM ^
I'm not sure if you really have the information to speak authoritatively on this.
Even so, say we hypothetically talk to Miles. He's interested. No way he leaves on the cusp of a MNC. So, we wait. 2008 becomes a recruitment disaster, which lays the groundwork for more seasons like this one.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:03 PM ^
Les Miles was not asked to come to Michigan. I know.
mgoboes is right.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:04 PM ^
Well, I know that the afterlife is full of gumdrops and unicorns. I know. I am right.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 PM ^
Holy shit! Really? Who wants to organize a group kool-aid party then? Anything for gumdrops and unicorns I always say.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:07 PM ^
I need sources.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:11 PM ^
oooof.
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:39 PM ^
Did he see the field this year at Iowa?
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:30 PM ^
What's Mallett doing these days? I think he could have done well had he stayed.
Edit after google: He's a redshirt freshman with the razorbacks, can he do that at another school?
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:48 PM ^
Why wouldn't he be able to do that at another school? Its called transferring.
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:54 PM ^
To be a redshirt freshman, after he played in games for a year at another school? So, he'll be a sixth year senior? Technically?
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:55 PM ^
Freshman last year.
Redshirt freshman this year.
Sophmore next year.
Junior year after.
Then Senior.
5 years.
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:39 PM ^
I don't know, but no one has mentioned the fact that Will Campbell was visiting LSU this weekend.
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:18 PM ^
Miles purposely lost to Ole Miss so Campbell would cross off LSU on his list and head to Michigan. Miles is clearly working for Michigan...
But in all seriousness, I agree with all that was mentioned above. Miles isn't the one throwing the passes out there and they thought Ryan P (not even going to try to spell his last name) was supposed to be the next Vince Young, but instead, they got a repeat offender who was given way too many chances (think collegiate Pacman Jones) and kept getting in trouble. He's in the exact same boat as us, except he has some more talented players around him, while we lost way too many people and don't have as much talent behind those who left.
Can we at least all take solace that Charlie Weis lost to Syracuse? Mandel has an article stating that Weis is done at ND.
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:23 PM ^
That just isn't true. Read my post below. Miles was not in the exact same position as Michigan at quarterback. He put Hatch/Lee out there for almost the entire season and left Jordan Jefferson (Rivals top 250 team, Scout.com top 20 QB, Rivals top 10 pro-style QB) on the bench until the second half of today's game. I wasn't aware that Rodriguez was keeping such a player on the bench at Michigan...
November 22nd, 2008 at 9:47 PM ^
If Les wanted to coach at his alma mater, he could have done two things:
1) NOT stab Lloyd Carr in the back and (among other things) spread bogus rumors to recruits about Lloyd's health
and
2) NOT sign an extension with LSU.
Les chose to be an asshole to our coach and program and chose to stay at LSU. Rich chose to come to Michigan. I'll take the guy who actually wanted to be here.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:26 PM ^
is irrelevant as he was never offered the job. number 1 is pretty close
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:33 PM ^
Is what happened ever going to be actually made public knowledge?
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:41 PM ^
Not public.
November 23rd, 2008 at 11:44 AM ^
Sorry, jmblue, number one is not gonna fly with me. Kirk Ferentz was rumored to be another coach that was spreading rumors about Lloyd's health, yet, Lloyd "forgave" him. The rift between Lloyd and Les goes back to the days when they were both assistants under Gary Moeller. The real question is, should some alleged "indiscretions" of a personal nature that happened 15-20 years ago affect what goes on at UM in the present? I don't think they should have, but, they did.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:40 PM ^
It is interesting that both Rodriguez and Miles were handicapped with sub-par QB's this year.
November 22nd, 2008 at 11:07 PM ^
You can not listen to me or not believe me, but Les Miles very much wanted to come to Michigan last season, regardless of the championship run LSU had going on at the time.
The problem was that Miles was never contacted by anyone official at UM--he couldn't be. But several alums and boosters had contacted him enough, and with enough resolve, that he had even gone so far as to begin to buy a house in Ann Arbor (fact).
When Herbstreit hit the airwaves (with intel from these same alums & boosters), and the proverbial shit hit the fan on SEC Championship day... with having never been actually contacted by Michigan, Miles could only do so much. Risk one high paying job for one nobody official has ever contacted you about? LSU acted swiftly and in the best interests of its program when it cornered Miles, and signed him to a lucrative long-term deal. We know it from there.
Why was Miles never contacted by Michigan? Carr made it pretty clear from the get go that he was not in any way in support of that move, and from what I have heard from multiple people within the UM Athletic Department, Bo Schembechler had also voiced strong concerns about Miles as a coach at Michigan, before his passing.
Add all of that to an already inept AD, and overly-involved, self-infatuated President like MSC ... and voilà -- you have RR at Michigan and Les Miles at LSU. Martin ran and hid (on his boat) so that he wouldn't be perceived as the bad guy for not going after Miles. They thought bringing in a coach who has thrived in a talentless conference for years, running a gimmick offense, would ever have a real chance at success in the Big Ten.
It's embarrassing... and humbling. But we are as low as low can get (I hope). Time to start climbing back up that hill...
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:20 AM ^
Pretty much dead on with everything I've heard. And it's a shame, though, because Les Miles would have been infinitely better for this program, even if he were to burn out after a few years. As much as the "support RR!" "give him a few years!" crowd may or may not be right, I think Michigan would have been infinitely better off with 2 to 3 years of a failed Les Miles experiment than the 2 to 3 years of failed Rich Rodriguez we're going to get.
Talk about leaving the cupboard bare... It's going to make Lloyd Carr look like a veritable feast when RR and his traveling country bumpkin show hits the road for the next stop in a couple years. Mark my words, no matter what he says (which he only says because he has to), the Rich Rodriguez Experience and its accompanying hangers-on (which he refers to as "We" when talking about his program) will find greener pastures elsewhere within this group of freshman's four years. Talking behind the scenes to people, this is a culture shock for both parties involved, and I don't think either one really embraces the other. Michigan Football Starring Rich Rodriguez and His Spread Offense will only go so far, especially in a brutally cold-weather climate and a physical conference like the Big 10.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:57 PM ^
Where is Rich Rod going to go? Another college job isn't likely. Should a big program job open up they won't have interest in him unless he's successful here. This is a good thing as we may have to fight to keep him, but it means we've been a winning program. The NFL! Not likely the track record for college coaches jumping to the NFL isn't good. These are coaches that run pro-style offense and still haven't succeeded. The option is viewed as unfeasible in the NFL. A team would have to really go out on an experimental limb to hire him, with Al Davis who knows. For an NFL team to take a chance the same principal applies. We will need to be successful for them to have any interest.
You're right he could fail, I hate to even think it. If he does fail, speaking hypothetically cause he won't, he would have to take over a small time program. Coaching in a small conference or a lousy team in a big conference would not be a greener pasture.
Brian is absolutely right we need to give coach Rod four or five years. To drive him out early would damage the program horrifically on many levels.
November 23rd, 2008 at 11:50 AM ^
It should also be noted that John Bacon, co author of "Bo's Lasting Lessons" has stated, on air on WTKA that Bo thought that Les Miles would be the next coach at UM and that if it did happen, it would be with his endorsement. Take it for what it is.
November 22nd, 2008 at 11:14 PM ^
You are entitled to your opinion, and Z'm not saying your sources are wrong. But what you've posted is not the reason Miles was not asked to coach.
What you said is true about Carr and Bo.
November 22nd, 2008 at 11:54 PM ^
It's because he banged Gary Moeller's wife!
November 22nd, 2008 at 11:57 PM ^
Which explains Moeller's drinking.
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:00 AM ^
Word is. . .
he banged SOMEBODY'S wife. I don't know whose.
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:45 AM ^
Jill, you are saying that one of the greater reasons Miles wasn't/cannot be offered the job as head coach at Michigan is because he had sex with someone's wife? As in, someone deep within the program... or just at Michigan... or within the NCAA circuit??
Clearly I'm not about to start name dropping and get my friends into trouble, so, I am not asking you to do that--but, my God. Is this is a widely corroborated story? Or just a myth? Or just drama... ?
November 23rd, 2008 at 8:14 AM ^
Doesn't even understand how transfers work, don't buy the insider stuff.
But it's totally true that Les had sex with Lloyd's wife, daughter and mother. At the same time. Moeller was there, too, drinking Keystone Light and cheering Les on. Some even say Cam Cameron was in on it, too.
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:02 AM ^
The word is that he banged Bill Martin. On a sailboat. While smoking a cigar and sipping on some Henn-o.
I know.
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:05 AM ^
I was hoping you wouldn't go there, the visual is, well, EEEEWWWWWW!
I once liked Henn-o. With a cigar.
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:06 AM ^
that's your cue.
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:07 AM ^
I have been shamed. I dishonor TWSS.
November 23rd, 2008 at 11:53 AM ^
Les was banging Bill Martin, on a sailboat, while smoking a cigar, sipping on Henn-o AND listening to Christopher Cross's "Sailing" over and over and over again.
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:16 AM ^
Les Miles banged Jai Eugene on top of fictitious copies of Lloyd Carr's medical report. Said report purported that Carr had stage 2 rectal cancer and wasn't going to be around for much longer.
:(
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:25 AM ^
I'm laughing so hard right now I have tears in my eyes. Too much liquor. The :( just put me over the edge.
November 23rd, 2008 at 9:05 AM ^
I always thought that Les boned Lloyd Carr. Wasn't that the story?
November 23rd, 2008 at 9:16 AM ^
Didn't he bone a house a Barton Hills?
November 23rd, 2008 at 9:35 AM ^
He had a threesome with the house in Barton Hills and one in Brighton. But the encounter gave the house in Barton Hills a nasty case of Mold Spores. It was a mess. My inside source told me.