Late Night Open Thread

Submitted by M-Wolverine on
Let's be honest...there's only one topic. It's all just variations on it.

mgoSk

January 8th, 2011 at 12:09 AM ^

At the beginning of the search I wasn't much for Les, but the more I think about it all, the more I warm up to him and the more I'd do just about anything not to have Hoke come in, so I hope that guy's right, because otherwise, I have no clue where this is going if it isn't hokus pokus.

LatinForLiar

January 8th, 2011 at 12:11 AM ^

I really don't know if I can get behind Les. I think oversigning is one of the most unethical things a coach can do. Add on top of that the whole "I don't know who told him to clock it" fiasco, and whatever the other rumors are swirling around here, and it's just plain bad news.

Then again, this makes the comaprison to UK basketball even more appropriate...Les has similar baggage to Calipari. Hopefully the first season results will be similar

BlueDragon

January 8th, 2011 at 12:48 AM ^

It ain't easy to make it in the SEC West.  This isn't the Big 2 and the Little Eight anymore.  We need a strong-arm man to take charge and lead our program to redemption.  Harbaugh was my first choice after RR was fired but he's gone.  I'm sure as hell not sticking around for the Hokestravaganza.  Miles is our hatchet man.

SFBlue

January 8th, 2011 at 1:31 AM ^

Some duder on another thread had "discountent," but he could have been being cute.  (By the way, I am staying in a discount tent in Kezer Field, former home of the 49ers and two blocks from my house, until this is all cleared up.)

HeismanPose

January 8th, 2011 at 12:14 AM ^

I can deal with Les.  It's not a perfect fit, but it can definitely work.  For all of his faults, the guy just wins.  5-1 in bowl games with a national championship under his belt.  Harbaugh can't come close to that.  Les can recruit, sends kids to the NFL, and I think we'd have a good shot at retaining our current players and commits with him.  As crazy as it sounds, I think Les Miles would stabilize the program. 

If Les is the guy, I think it's important to bring in a strong OC who can run the spread.  I also think it is necessary that we start grooming either the OC or DC to be "coach-in-waiting".  Les is getting old and I doubt he would be here for very long.  We can't go through this bullshit again.   

Monocle Smile

January 8th, 2011 at 12:23 AM ^

sacrificing integrity for the sake of winning. Michigan does not run a bullshit oversigning scam like Miles does at LSU. We got rid of Gary Moeller for embarrassing Michigan in a way that had nothing to do with football. Why lower the standards so severely just to win a few more games?

Part of why we are Michigan is that we do not win at all costs. We win the right way.

Clayzer

January 8th, 2011 at 12:29 AM ^

So maybe Dave Brandon sits him down and says "listen, that oversigning stuff that you pulled at LSU, we don't do things that way here. It will not be tolerated. Bo wouldn't have done it, Carr wouldn't have done it, and you are not going to do it while coach at the University of Michigan."

aaamichfan

January 8th, 2011 at 12:35 AM ^

maybe Les disagreed with the practice, but was pressured to do it by administration? Oversigning is basically a way of life in the SEC, and Les only coached there for 5 years. He knows how things are done in the B10, and I'm sure he'd be willing to voluntarily stop doing it.

BlueDragon

January 8th, 2011 at 12:56 AM ^

I don't like it any more than you do, but the SEC is the best conference in football.  They know winning.  We need a winner to run the program again.  There isn't going to be another Fielding Yost walking into town, turning everything he touches in the program to gold with sunlight shining from his every orifice.

Besides, after Cam-gate and the Gang of Five inexplicably being cleared to play in the Sugar Bowl, the big boys have clearly said that the rules don't matter if you're good enough.  That is the cosmic, atomic, and sub-atomic structure of college athletics, to-day.  Period.  A man like Les Miles who was immersed in that hyper-competitive environment for 5 years and emerged a winner will know his way through the jungle.

It's not a perfect solution, but the world we live in is far from perfect.  Miles is the best choice with the roster and recruits we have at this moment.  If DB is as strong of an administrator as everyone makes him out to be, he will be able to keep an eye on LM and reign him in if he's doing something "too" sketchy for Michigan.  Besides, no one complained about snake-oiling recruits and coaches away from other programs during the RR era.

Monocle Smile

January 8th, 2011 at 1:02 AM ^

but that doesn't mean it's okay to ignore the rules. Maybe one day new officials will take over and there will be actual punishment handed out instead of purse-whacking. We're better than that. We follow the rules not because we're afraid of punishment, but because they are fair to the students and to other teams.

Snake-oiling doesn't deny kids the free education that was promised to them months before. Snake-oiling doesn't involve lying to the media and refusing to talk to said kids after the fact.

Don't fucking try to put the bullshit that Miles and Saban pull on the same plane as snake oil.

BlueDragon

January 8th, 2011 at 1:15 AM ^

Don't put Miles on the same plane as Saban.  Alabama has 12 medical red-shirts a year, the rest of the SEC has a hair over 1 on average.  There is really no comparison between the two coaches.  Some of what Miles does is shady, but I don't really care.  Really.  Football players have amazing advantages over other students (tuition, housing, tutoring, adultation, the opportunity to become very very rich as a pro athelete, coach, manager etc.) that I would have given my left nut to have in my Michigan days.  Losing those amazing advantages leaves them as regular college students, with all the rights and privileges therein.  I agree that we can't lower academic standards to get the best atheletes (see: Demar Dorsey) but the assumption that revoking someone's team status is the end of the world as we know it for that particular person is ludicrous.

We can have all the high-and-mighty moral standards we want but we're not fielding a football team to turn out good scholars with strong lifelong commitments to fitness.  In DB's own words, he expects varsity sports to compete for Big Ten titles each and every year.  To do that, we need someone who knows the ropes and who knows how to get things done.  Maintaining the moral integrity of the program is not the overriding concern here.  Look at DB's plans for profitability, for expanding the scope of the program around the country.  Do you think 5-star recruits are going to be interested in coming to Michigan to play for Brady Hoke or one of the other old-guard guys?

Abe Froman

January 8th, 2011 at 1:07 AM ^

i just cant imagine he was pressured into it. 

not exactly like we has pressured into signing his contract ya know?  he chose LSU, and weilds some power with the administration for it, ya know?

and as much as i hate to say this, id like a coach willing to resign versus defy his own morals.

i know college football is big bucks and big business, but i also know not every business runs this way.  i still hold out hope for us too.

The FannMan

January 8th, 2011 at 12:42 AM ^

Doesn't the B1G have a rule that limits the number of kids in a class?   The SEC, de facto, allows it.  While I agree it is a scumbag move, it is accepted in he conference he is. 

I really could care less if he lies to the press.  Its not like the truth matters to the Freep anyway.  (He shouldn't blame his kids though.)

Abe Froman

January 8th, 2011 at 12:46 AM ^

and if that's what he says then we are better off without him.

i want to win, and bad -- but not at all costs.

guys, i come from the health profession, and it's a perfect translation or metaphor here.  i have met many a surgeon who was awesome with his hands but a complete asshole.  i was also fortunate to work with some of the best docs in the world who also kept it classy.  one thing i've learned is no matter how good dr. hotshot j. asshole is, there's always someone as good or better who can do it and do it with the right attitude.

i see this as what makes a "michigan man."  not that you come from bo, mo, or llo.  this coaching tree stuff is bullshit.  yes, we must win, we are michigan, but it's how we win that sets us apart.

i wasnt in favor of keeping RR but the guy strived to do it the right way.  the mere fact that we are even discussing the ethics of LM isn't indicative of moving in the right direction.  he's a spectacular coach, but if he can't play by the ground rules DB sets, then move on down our list to someone who can.

aaamichfan

January 8th, 2011 at 12:32 AM ^

I don't think oversigning would be an issue here.

In the SEC, oversigning is the status quo. In order to be successful, it's pretty much necessary. I doubt Les is so tainted by his time in the SEC that he cannot operate a program without oversigning.

HeismanPose

January 8th, 2011 at 12:36 AM ^

College football coaches are all sketchy, to some degree.  Les Miles didn't rob a bank - he did something just about every other coach in the SEC does.  He won't be oversigning here.

I think the NCAA is gonna tackle the issue, anyway. 

Monocle Smile

January 8th, 2011 at 12:44 AM ^

College football coaches are not all sketchy. That's poor form.

"Everyone else does it" wasn't, isn't, and never will be a good excuse. Mostly because no, not everyone else does it. I don't care what conference you're in. Miles didn't rob a bank, but he did rob students of a free education promised to them just because they weren't quite good enough at football. That's shitty any way you look at it.

The NCAA is a bunch of pussies who care about one thing...money. That's it.

Monocle Smile

January 8th, 2011 at 12:57 AM ^

I didn't want Harbaugh here. We'd look pretty desperate if we pulled in a guy who had talked smack about our academics and had a DUI on his record after what we did to Moeller.

...but Harbaugh DID admit to the DUI, whereas Miles blatantly lied about cutting kids. Harbaugh gets a lower score on my scum-o-meter than Miles.

MIdocHI

January 8th, 2011 at 12:12 AM ^

I was concerned with Miles about the ethics.  The Cotton Bowl was impressive, though.  Of course, that does not reflect on the ethics.  Remember how everyone said that nothing was being said before the Orange Bowl so as not to ruin it for JH and his players?  Maybe that same reason for Miles is why it has been so quiet regarding candidates for the coaching search. 

I hope that the lack of noise coming from the coaching search is because of professionalism and that we will end up with a stunningly great surprise of a coach.

nsweet

January 8th, 2011 at 12:17 AM ^

I think he was a target or at least someone they showed interest in, don't see the school giving him an extension and most likely a boost in pay just because MSM was saying he might be someone to look at.

PurpleStuff

January 8th, 2011 at 12:26 AM ^

I'm under the assumption (perhaps mistaken) that Brandon has thought this through and knows what he is doing.  With that being said, I don't see how he would decide to not give Rodriguez the chance at a fourth year but instead replace him with a guy that appears to have a near identical resume and fewer social graces.

Other than maybe Miles, I don't see any of the college guys Brian has mentioned as being in play for much the same reason.

The FannMan

January 8th, 2011 at 12:48 AM ^

You maybe be right.  However, i am choosing to believe the "Harbaugh is evil" theory where Harbaugh was lined up and asked DB to wait until the after the Orange Bowl.  Then Jimmy went looking in the NFL, got himself paid, and screwed over Brandon.  Like everything CC related, I have not one shred of evidence to support this other than the publically known timeline and my hope that our AD has a clue.