If you have a Pitchfork I want to talk

Submitted by Ziff72 on November 1st, 2010 at 10:41 AM

The anger is raging inside all of us.  The performance was dreadful, but as a beloved coach by all(sarcasm) once said,  the past is the past.  When you look at this program don't lump your anger from the OSU streak and The Horror and the Big Ten record all together with Sat. night.  We need to look forward.  Things have not changed for the future of the program.  For everyone that wants RR gone, I submit a short rebuttal.


1 Oregon 8 2488 2095 625 4583 7.3 572.9
2 Oklahoma State 8 1471 2747 615 4218 6.9 527.3
3 Nevada 8 2407 1754 584 4161 7.1 520.1
4 Michigan 8 2204 1943 563 4147 7.4 518.4
5 Boise State 7 1500 2111 473 3611 7.6 515.9

This team (could) return 22 of 24 starters next year.  The #4 offense in the country will return every skill position player except Martell Webb and the offensive line should improve even with losing S. Schilling.   The 2011 schedule is set up for a Big 10 Championship.   Rodriguez will finally have experience and depth at his disposal on offense.  No freshmen(even redshirt freshmen) save possibly Hart will see the field.  Don't you want to see what could become of this offense and the stars it could attract with stability up top?    If you broom RR then what?   If you bring in Harbaugh, Denard is either gone or a slot back.   I have no idea how much attrition you get but this offense has been molded by RR for 3 years,  it will not be as good.

I know you'll raise your pitchfork and say, but what about the "defense"?.  To that I have run out of rebuttal, but I will say with unshaking confidence we will be better.   To the people who like to fire people I'll give you a sacrificial Gerg, because that side can't get worse.  I don't care anymore.   Everyone who is worth a dam is coming back on d,  they will be better with or without Robinson.

My plea to you is that I am 40 years old and for my entire life the pleas from the stands has been to open up the offense and be aggressive.  RR has found a once in a generation type athlete in Denard and we are on the cusp of history.   Our leadership next year will be beyond reproach, Martin, Molk, Denard, Van Bergen.   Do not tear down what could be historic because we go to the Armed Forces Bowl instead of the Gator Bowl.  As long as we get our 15 practices I could give a shit who or where we play.   I have forseen 2011 as our return to greatness for 2 years and while I thought JT Turner and Boo Boo would be our corners in my NC scenario, I am not wavering, because I didn't see what the offense could become. 

Friends our offensive potential is great,  the only thing to slow us down is the negativity killing recruiting, because the defense will get there if we stick together.  Please put your forks down for all our sakes.  This team is so close to getting over the hump, it just needs a little push from us and recruiting and wins will just open up and come pouring down on us.   We truly have a chance at greatness here.  Let's not pull the cord too soon.  I may be wrong, but if Brandon pulls the lever at the end of this season, I will always wonder at what could have been. 

How many great things almost got flushed before it had a chance and was saved?   We are Seinfeld right now.  Seinfeld was almost cancelled before it got going.  It was almost cancelled several times in it's 1st 2 years.  Floundering in the ratings, few people believed, the masses wanted  it flushed, but there was a key few who saw something beyond the ratings.  They saw greatness and stuck their neck out for them.   They got over the hump and we were all rewarded.    

I feel like D. Brandon needs to be Clark and the family are the fans.  The family's justified in their stance they just need someone to lead them thru the pain.


D. Brandon,  stay the course, dare to be great.


PS If we go 8-4 next year you can broom them all and light him on fire just put the shovels back for 1 more year please.  



November 1st, 2010 at 10:45 AM ^

It would be a travesty to see all this offensive talent go to waste.

It has been a travesty to see all this offensive talent go to waste with a defense so poor words cannot describe it this season.  With any other defense in the B10, we are 8-1.


November 1st, 2010 at 10:46 AM ^

Amen.  I am sick of all of the board posts about who could possibly be the next coach if RR gets fired, should he be fired, is Jim Harbaugh already the coach, etc, etc.

It needs to stop. We still have four games left.  Even though our Defense looked like it didn't even play high school football, our offense has done nothing but get better since the epic fail of 2008.  If anything, the only bad thing that RR has done is not hire the right guy as DC.  Get rid of Greg Robinson and find someone good.  If we got rid of RR I don't know how much more rebuilding I can take! The program will be bottom-dwellers if Michigan were to switch back to a pro-style offense. 


November 1st, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^

I am reading what you are putting down and I am with ya man as I have been a supporter of RR getting that 4th year...

My issue with RR was that what we saw Saturday took place after 2 weeks prep.  Yes the O did it's job but the insistence of the 3-3-5, seeing Roh try to cover tight ends and backs in space, making a walk on look like Tom Brady throwing the same tight end cross that Miami of Ohio nailed our ass with. 

Schaffer year 1 is on RR.  GERG although the choices seemed thin for hires was #2.  All the D players that did not make clearinghouse.  Although not his fault IMO just to have such a split in the family that people internally did practicegate on the guy.

RR is a victim of circumnstance and if we have a chance at Harbuagh I would like to change those circumnstances, unite the Michigan family and move back to the Schembechler coaching tree and Michigan football.


November 1st, 2010 at 10:53 AM ^

We all thought our D would be better in 09 after 08. That didn't happen. Sure we get Woolfolk back, but our D will not improve significantly. They'll have to learn new schemes again. We are still going to be starting many guys who shouldn't start at big time programs. I see no reason to think we will win more than 7-8 games next year.


We will probably go 6-6, but there's a better chance we lose all 4 remaining games (5-7) than splitting them (7-5). I just think that with the offense we have, I could have coached this team to the same record. The atrocious D is mostly RR's fault, through attrition, hiring bad coaches, not letting D coordinators run what they want to run. This team just can't compete in the B10 at this point. And we won't next year either with this D. If RR gets to 2012 we could have a decent D by then, but who knows if he'll stay that long.


November 1st, 2010 at 11:10 AM ^

The atrocious D is mostly RR's fault

I just don't see it that way. Yes, he is the head coach and it unltimately is his responsibility to field a better D than what we have, but the main problem we have with the D is age and experience.  The RS Soph / Jr,  RS JR / Sr, and Sr classes were all here or on their way before RR arrived.  Were are all those guys now? And how did RR run them off? There looked to be plenty of talent in the DB ranks, we have gone over the attrition records a thousand times, it just does not add up to being mostly RR's fault, or anyone's for that matter. And if we return every member of our starting D save Mouton and Banks, I am not sure how they couldn't be conciderably better.  ANd how much better would it take?  2 more stops a game? That would do it with this offense, but with next years O? maybe 1 more stop would do it?  Hard to say, but like the OP i want to see us try.  I have endured the last three years, I can take my chance with one more to see what one more year does to our O and our D.




November 1st, 2010 at 4:37 PM ^

Big picture, yes a head coach takes responsibility for the whole performance at the end of the day.  Slightly smaller picture, we we could insert another D coordinator and get a brighter defensive future at the end of the day, there is some reason to see what RRod can do with another one in the fold.  For gods sake, we don't need a world-beater D, or even a best in the big ten, if we can get our current talent playing like the 50th best defense nationally, I think we have a chance at beating anybody.  Despite the horrid attrition and mass of youth, I still find it hard to believe another coordinator couldn't at least cobble together a mediocre to bad defense that could consistently stall the likes of UMas and a crippled Penn State.  Perhaps I'm wrong, and perhaps most of our rated recruits have all really been shockingly overrated, but I would like to see what this team could do with another DC.


November 1st, 2010 at 9:27 PM ^

They'll have to learn new schemes again.

Is this a bad think or a good think, because the way I see it this defensive scheme doesn't work? We need something else that works. Now, aren't our defensive players mostly FR and SO which means they were only coach by G. Robinson so this "learning of new schemes AGAIN" does not apply to them?


November 1st, 2010 at 10:51 AM ^

The biggest fear I have is the potential of this team offensively.  Bring in Harbaugh next year, the floodgate of transfers on offense would be large.  We need patience.  Defensively, fire GERG today.  Show us that Rich gets it, that he is as pissed as the rest of us, and addresses the perception problems immediately.  This team is being put together for a special run.  I just hope Brandon shows the patience for it to bear fruit.


November 1st, 2010 at 11:01 AM ^

OP, I agree with most of your post, but I'm simply asking why there would be mass transfers on O, with an NFL style O implemented?

Obviously, the next HC wouldn't go back to Lloydball, but why would players leave with a Patriots, Saints, Colts style offense? The WRs (Roundtree, Stonum, Hemmingway) could all flourish in any offense. The RBs are varied inough in style from Hopkins, to Cox, to Shaw and Smith.

The only real question is Denard, but if he improves his passing more, he could be a shotgun spread QB (not a read option guy) and if not, Tate/ Gardner could play in a pro style spread offense.

The main difference between RR and other spreads is RR's significant use of the read option, but otherwise isn't all that different from NFL style spreads.


November 1st, 2010 at 4:48 PM ^

Don't fret...The facts of our recent recruits prove your concerns completely unfounded.  While we might lose a couple of players, we'd likely gain others.  More importantly, Stanford has offered roughly half of our current commits.  Harbaugh even offered Tate.  Do you really think that our kids would hate a coach who brought dismal Stanford to prominence (and top-10 recruiting) especially when he already offered them a scholarship?  The only player who might not fit into a pro-style offense is Denard...and that's only if he doesn't want to switch to the position he'll need to learn for the NFL.

Beyond that, please drop the "fire GERG" stuff unless you want to ad "fire RR".  RR is the captain of the ship.  He recruited the players and hired the coaches (his first DC now having turned around GERG's shitty Syracuse defense).  The young, inexperienced players can't be RR's excuse but not GERG's.  


November 1st, 2010 at 11:10 AM ^

denard was sucky last year.  now look at him.

the development of the frosh D will be more than marginal next year with bowl practices (hopefully), spring practice, summer practice and fall practice.  but i would like them to focus more on tackling and covering than scheme.

next year the O will avg at least 35 pts a game.  if the D improves just a few points a game, you're looking at a very good team overall.


November 1st, 2010 at 10:56 AM ^

rbgoblue is right. A decent defense and we may be contending this year for the Big Ten.  As good as this offense is just think how good they would be with a defense that was in the 50-70 range nationally. When was the last time we got a turnover in our favor? Get this team the ball 5-6 more times a game through turnovers and a few more punts and we may be looking at 8-0 or 7-1.  I have no opionin anymore on RR he can play offense but who knows what is wrong with the defense.  I just wish we didnt have to go throgh this. We need to figure it out fast. 2011 is a cakewalk compared to what 2012 brings us.  If we blow it up now I will be afraid.


November 1st, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^

 I think you're all fucked in the head. We're ten hours from the fucking fun park, and you wanna bail out! Well, I'll tell you something, this is no longer a vacation . . . it's a quest! It's a quest for fun! I'm gonna have fun, and you're gonna have fun! We're all gonna have so much fucking fun we'll need plastic surgery to remove our Goddamn smiles! You'll be whistling Zip-a-dee-doo-da out of your assholes! I've got to be crazy!


At the begining of the year you said in November that Michigan has a chance to be 10-3, 9-4, or 8-5 nobody would reach for the pitch fork


November 1st, 2010 at 10:59 AM ^

well one would probably retort with:

100 Washington 8 549 3438 6.26 35 429.75 3 5 0
101 Rice 8 554 3458 6.24 36 432.25 2 6 0
102 Iowa St. 9 684 3895 5.69 32 432.78 5 4 0
103 Duke 8 549 3473 6.33 40 434.13 2 6 0
104 Kansas St. 8 570 3509 6.16 24 438.63 5 3 0
105 East Carolina 8 598 3516 5.88 38 439.50 5 3 0
106 Michigan 8 580 3522 6.07 31 440.25 5 3 0
107 San Jose St. 9 625 3982 6.37 37 442.44 1 8 0
108 Utah St. 8 577 3543 6.14 35 442.88 2 6 0
109 Akron 9 608 3987 6.56 46 443.00 0 9 0
110 Eastern Mich. 9 596 3988 6.69 53 443.11 1 8 0
111 Wyoming 9 650 3996 6.15 36 444.00 2 7 0
112 Tulsa 8 585 3561 6.09 31 445.13 5 3 0
113 Texas Tech 8 637 3596 5.65 33 449.50 4 4 0
114 Louisiana Tech 8 589 3609 6.13 29 451.13 3 5 0
115 New Mexico St. 8 545 3618 6.64 38 452.25 2 6 0
116 Arkansas St. 8 560 3623 6.47 29 452.88 3 5 0
117 Wake Forest 8 599 3627 6.06 43 453.38 2 6 0
118 New Mexico 8 588 3634 6.18 44 454.25 0 8 0
119 Memphis 8 566 3783 6.68 44 472.88 1 7 0
120 Washington St. 9 653 4389 6.72 48 487.67 1 8 0


November 1st, 2010 at 11:30 AM ^

The whole meme about "only rushing 3" is completely ridiculous.  I don't know if those complaining have not been watching the games, or don't comprehend (not directed at you) what is going on, but against a pro styleish team, we have been running between and 3-4, 4-3 and 4-4.  What do supporters of this thory suggest, with our best DL injured, lets bring out some other ineffectual bodies, take a DB off the field, and give the weakest links on our defense more responsibility/less help?   That sounds like a prescription for improvement!


November 1st, 2010 at 11:07 AM ^

It's all about entertainment to me.  Breaston's returns aside, one year of Denard has been worth several of the prior regime (by the entertainment measure).  Really -- I'm not kidding.

I'd love for the defense to not be so pi$$-poor, and it would be nice to win more often, but not if it means going back to immobile QBs, 5-yard TD runs as the principal highlights, and @#$%ing away 4th-quarter leads after doing the run-run-(incomplete)pass routine.

Feat of Clay

November 1st, 2010 at 11:41 AM ^

You know, I think that's an excellent point.  Overlooked, and so far negbanged, but a good point and I (for one) think you're onto something.

When people say "I don't care about yards, I care about winning" I get where they are coming from.  We all want to win.  But I've watched losing games where it's all pain, and I've watched losing games where I say "Holy sh*t look at that kid run" and the latter is way better.  I can have a lot more patience when I have hope (which our offense gives me) and moments of absolute glee (which the offense also gives me, usually thanks to Mr. Robinson).  Even when the outcome is bad, there is a lot of entertainment to be had when our offense clicks.  And that definitely helps during these lousy weeks.


November 1st, 2010 at 7:04 PM ^

I'd love for the defense to not be so pi$$-poor, and it would be nice to win more often, but not if it means going back to immobile QBs...


I could understand this if you were a neutral fan.  I can't understand it if you're a diehard.  I agree that Carr's offense was pretty dull, but I liked winning - a lot.   It's one thing to say this now, but if it's bowl season and we're sitting home again, would you honestly say it was worth it?

Hemlock Philosopher

November 1st, 2010 at 11:07 AM ^

"The 2011 schedule is set up for a Big 10 Championship. "  We are 4-16 in the B10 over the past three seasons.  I think making a run for a championship is a huge stretch with special teams and defense being in the state they are.  Get Wolf back and a couple JUCO transfers in the secondary and maybe we can think of competing, let a lone winning. 


November 1st, 2010 at 11:34 AM ^

Now saying we'll be the best team in the nation,  but look we got ND and 3 teams that will have 70pts hung on them.  Survive that and MSU on the road is the only game we won't be favored by 10 or more.  Iowa loses everyone and the rest of the Big Ten blows save PSU and Wisc which are off the schedule.  So we come to Nebraska and OSU 10-0 with both games at home.    Not a guarantee and maybe we stumble at Illinois or Northwestern or something but a 10-3 season for me is an absolute bare minimum.   

We do that and I think the recruits come pouring in,


November 1st, 2010 at 1:46 PM ^

MSU was a mediocre 5-3 Big Ten team last year.  Michigan will finish 1-7 or 2-6.  Maybe if they get extremely lucky, they'll hit 3-5.  Teams very rarely jump from from 2-6 to 7-1 or 8-0.  Mediocrity next year is the most likely outcome.  Expect 4-4 or 5-3 in conference.


November 1st, 2010 at 11:15 AM ^

I wish I could tell everyone here that I am leaning one way or the other, but honest to God I am riding the fence. I am riding the fence because I want Michigan to be good again, and will support whatever allows that to happen. While I know this would require foresight, it's the position I am choosing to take.

Maybe I'm just a nice guy, but I want RichRod to win. I want him to be our coach for the next 20 years schooling all the dopes who decide to play us. But I can say that right now, he is not doing himself any favors. Regardless of the play on the field, the blame or praise will always fall on his head, and in order for him to keep his job he has to do a better time of it. What this entails is everything.

The worst part of all of this -- really the most frustrating -- is that if he fails, all the crap we as RR supporters will get for being wrong. All the devotion and time spent defending a man who deserved a chance, down the drain. And that to me is the most debiliating thing about these last three years.


November 4th, 2010 at 11:24 AM ^

Not at all.

The program falling into abyss means that something is wrong with the coaching. All I'm saying is it would be disheartening to know that we supported a coach who we thought could take us to higher levels, only to see him fail.

Yeah it sucks being wrong, and I hear enough of it on a daily basis from my Spartan roommates and even from my other friends who are Michigan fans. I want RichRod to succeed because it means that Michigan will be succeeding.


November 1st, 2010 at 11:15 AM ^

This is my problem with the "stay the course" philosophy:

...but I will say with unshaking confidence we [the defense]  will be better.

I read "unshaking confidence" as "faith". Faith is for religion, not reality. I stopped believing in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and God a long time ago.

The reality is that we have zero evidence that UM will EVER field a competent defense while RR is the HC. People continue to talk about how "the defense can't getting any worse" and yet., each season, it does.

UM's football team is not close to being a complete team. We have one outstanding offensive player (Denard) who is being ridden into the ground by an offensive "genius" whose schematic advantage is to have Denard run the ball 25-30 times a game. The defense has been a disaster for three straight seasons and the special teams have gotten worse each year.


November 1st, 2010 at 11:49 AM ^

If OSU, Wisconsin and Iowa leave the Big 10 and Nebraska decides they would actually LIKE to be Texas' b*tch (read: stay in the Big 12) and those teams are replaced with several MAC schools then the Big 10 would be almost as bad as the Big East became when VaTech, Miami and BC left for the ACC.

Under those fantasy conditions, I think RR could be successful at UM. The guy is a non-AQ school level coach (The Big East does not deserve to still be an AQ conference IMO). He honestly seems to believe he can win in the Big 10 fielding defenses with MAC caliber players and walk-ons (there are at least 4 players getting significant minutes on the defense right now who qualify).