If a guy like Kelly ever went to ND it would be a good thing

i get your point but i'd still rather not actually see it happen.

I think ND should be good enough to be challenging and provide us with a quality win.

I would say that the only bad thing about a great ND program (aside from the increased likelihood of losses obviously) is that because we recruit similar players--willing to go north, decent academic threshold, traditional college town, etc.--they would take more top recruits away from us. Except that they already do. We currently have the almost worst-case scenario, where ND continues to recruit like crazy, but beating them does not signify that you have a great team.

If you were talking Ohio St, I would agree with you to an extent. But I loathe the Irish so much I pretty much have no issue with them losing every game and being banished from D1.

who believes Michigan football is better served and kept on it's recruiting toes by having a strong Notre Dame program to the south. So far Michigan has done reasonably well since 2004 when recruiting against Notre Dame despite the Irish having a "Messiah" at head coach and the Michigan program running arguably the most uninventive, boring offense in the land (Carr/Debord), and flailing about tying for Big Ten titles, going 9-3, and losing bowl games in collosal and embarrassing fashion. Scout.com: 2010: UM 18th, ND 11th (so far) 2009: UM 14th, ND 23rd 2008: UM 6th, ND 2nd 2007: UM 10th, ND 11th 2006: UM 9th, ND 5th 2005: UM 2nd, ND 27th 2004: UM 5th, ND 30th Michigan seems to do more than alright no matter what on the recruiting side of things. Kelly is an outstanding coach. Cincy's wins this year over SFU (6-2), Oregon State (6-3), Fresno St. (6-3) and Rutgers (6-2) still boggle the mind. Mardye Gilyard and Tony Pike are great players, but just look at Cincy's talent level over the last 5-6 years. It's ridiculously low compared to these teams. I'd like to know Kelly's secret. Having Kelly at Notre Dame would rightly worry Michigan each year, and probably make the Wolverines a better football program in terms of recruiting, preparedness, aggressiveness, confidence, etc. You lose to a Kelly coached Notre Dame team. Not so bad. You beat a Kelly-coached Notre Dame team. That's pretty good. Right now Michigan's win over Weis, while thoroughly enjoyable, is not something for the UM team to really thump its chest about anymore.

with your sentiment.......I have enjoyed ND being a complete non-factor except in the minds of Irish fans for 15+ years now. Kelly would have the potential to make ND a power, yes he's a spread guy but he harps on physical toughness and defense. He would win at ND and win a lot. ND's problem is their admissions department, until they loosen up like they did in Holtz' early years ND will continue to flounder.

As scary as Brian Kelly at ND would be, and even scarier if he can continue to haul in elite talent there, RR beat him while at WVU. Okay fine, so it was one time in 2007 and WVU may have had more a more talented and experienced squad and the final score was 28-23.

Kelly at ND would be hella scary. Despite him leaving Central before I enrolled there, the program that he helped build there has continued to reap the rewards even through this season. Watching him climb the ladder, from Grand Valley, to Central Michigan, to Cincinnati, I can see the next logical step being a big-time program like Notre Dame. It probably would be good for Football to see Notre Dame near the top, because like the Yankees, if they don't win every once in awhile, they kinda lose their status as THAT team.

I agree to an extent that Kelly would be good for ND, though of course that might be at the detriment of other Big 10 schools. As noted earlier, UM and Nd tend to recruit similar kids, and an improved ND would probably cause at least some short-term drop-off for UM in terms of recruits. Of course, UM and ND also recruit nationally, and kids will play where they know they can win, so over the long term I think both teams would thrive. My issue with Kelly taking over is that he might be in for a rude awakening when it comes to the admissions office. Though ND really views itself in a brighter light academically than it should (UM, UVa, Cal, NW, and USC are all good-to-great schools who find a way to recruit good kids), there is a reason guys like Meyer and Kelly have shown some reluctance to seek out the ND job. I think that ND's recruiting rankings are inflated somewhat because they are "Notre Dame" (and all that entails), and other coaches realize that the top-25 classes being brought in may be less talented than the numbers indicate. These false numbers increase pressure on the coaches to win ("hey, you had a top-10 class last year. Why are we still losing!") while leaving them with weaker talent than similar schools. I guess this is a long way of saying that signing up for ND in 2010 isn't the same as signing up for ND in 1980. Coaches are starting to realize that, and unless ND changes it admissions standards a bit, you'll continue to see ND wallow in relative mediocrity.

So, if they stay like they are now or just a little better, good enough to be a "quality win" in the eyes of the pollsters and the chips of the computers, but not good enough to dominate the midwest, it's the best of both worlds for UM. I would prefer to see ND lose two or three a year, one being to UM. A two-loss ND team with losses to UM and USC would pretty much be guaranteed a top fifteen or so slot most years, and even a top ten slot many years. That would definitely qualify as a "quality win." I know my view could be seen as "finagling," but until there is a real playoff to determine a true champion, I would rather see UM exploit the current "system" for all it is worth. Sorta like OSU has done, but without all the vehicles, "tutors," escorts, and cash payouts.

Ah, those were the days... warm, but increasingly dim memories

Just curious, how many of the people hoping ND gets a good coach are old enough to remember ND when they were good? That's not a knock, just a question. Because when they were winning a National Title, beating us 4 times in a row, and regularly stealing major recruits from the State of Michigan (Mr. Football types), it was not fun. Heck, we have a hard time beating a crappy ND team more than 50% of the time. And recruiting would matter. Two northern schools recruiting not only midwest kids, but nationally, because they don't have the talent base around them to sustain a top flight program with just the recruits in the area. If there's a kid from Florida, or Texas, or California, who actually wants to come north, I rather they'd be thinking of coming to play for Rich than Kelly.