I feel like I've been through this before

Submitted by joeyb on

http://mgoblog.com/content/hello-enormous-retraction

It has the added bonus of being ... mean-spirited and completely wrongheaded about someone who has given far more the university than I, and probably anyone reading this, has.

This wasn't too long ago, so I'm surprised we are already back to this. Hoke is our coach. He deserves our respect and support. It doesn't matter how you feel about Rich Rod or how he was treated. If you aren't supporting your coach you are as bad as the Freep and the sect of Michigan fans that this site has fought against the last three years. Rich Rod didn't get a fair shake and now Hoke isn't getting one either.

You can either root for the team, the coach, and the players, or you can root against all three. There is no middle ground as they are one. Name calling, subtle jabs, and treating Hoke like a rival's coach does no good. It's not going to get him fired. It's not going to get him unhired. He had a losing record before he got here. So what? The only record that matters is the one while he is here and being against him is not going to help that.

Brady Hoke is part of Michigan now and being All In for Michigan means you are All In for its coach as well.

connecticutblue

January 13th, 2011 at 1:23 AM ^

When Coach Hoke wins a Big 10 or National Title, or beats OSU consistently, or some combination of those three then Brian has to retract.

Seriously it's been two days-fans are allowed to have a feeling out process with a new coach.

In your world everything seems black and white...sadly that is not how the things are. Of course once the season starts we will all root for the Players, the University, and Hoke...but for now I think we're all allowed to have opinions, and thoughts on what went wrong the last three (four+?) seasons.

Edit: Maybe it's sarcasm from the OP-in which case it's a smart post. But who knows

Bando Calrissian

January 13th, 2011 at 1:23 AM ^

The fanbase allowed themselves about two minutes before reaching for the pitchforks.

Brady Hoke handled himself well today.  He's silenced the "OMG Denard will transfer!" meme.  He's addressed questions of adjusting his offense to the personnel he has.  He's pretty much answered every question this fanbase prematurely came to conclusions about mere minutes after the decision was made.

"Feeling out process?"  Sure.  Whatever.  "Rationality?"  Preferred.

AnthonyThomas

January 13th, 2011 at 1:24 AM ^

I think OP's saying that one of the reasons (at least in a lot of people's eyes) that the last three years turned the way they did is because RR didn't get the proper support. It would be a travesty if the same happened this time around.

That being said, I hope Brian writes a post that details his opinions and what he sees in the future for the program. I've mostly just seen sarcastic remarks about the outcome with a sprinkling of stats.

King Douche Ornery

January 13th, 2011 at 9:09 AM ^

Who cares what Brian thinks?

I fhe sends his approval from on high, will that make a difference here? Is this a blog full of sheep?

And who cares about his "reasons" as to his disapproval or blessing of Hoke?

Anyone who is waiting for Brian to tell them what to think and why--skip that part and watch the press conference. Go check out Hoke's other teams. Form your own opinions (good or bad), and debate them here.

In reply to by King Douche Ornery

joeyb

January 13th, 2011 at 10:33 AM ^

Unfortunately, yes. Not everyone, but there are a good number of people who hang on his every word.

Brian influences a lot of opinions as do the Freep, ESPN, and any other media source. Honestly, if Brian and some other blogs did not rally behind RR, he might have been gone a lot sooner because there would be a lot less support for him. I can tell you that Brian influenced my opinion of him and I influenced my dad's. So, Brian's word affects more than just his readers.

Brian doesn't have to say that we are going to win the NCG this year, but to say that we won't win one ever with this coach is just hurting the coach and it spreads like wildfire. I'm not asking him to hoist him up on his shoulders, I'm just asking him to stop chucking the eggs at him.

ccdevi

January 13th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^

the whole premise of the linked retraction was an admission that he was factually incorrect.  That is not the case here.  Brian believes for all the reasons he's given that this was a bad hire.  Agree with him or disagree with him and feel free to give your reasons.

justingoblue

January 13th, 2011 at 1:31 AM ^

I came to the same realization during the press conference today. Was I happy with everything leading up to this point? No. Will Hoke have my full support as long as he's working hard to win games and doing it the right way? Yes.

Hoke deserves it, because as of now, he's given us no reason to act otherwise.

BlueDragon

January 13th, 2011 at 1:29 AM ^

The day when Brian was Wrong.  Was it just eight months ago?  Things sure are different now, except we're all still talking about the Carr-tel, whatever that is.

I'm all in for Hoke.  I'd like to think of myself as much more informed then the average fan, but compared to, say, the average high-school player, I'm probably way behind in my technical knowledge.  So I'm not arrogant enough to say that this hire or the other is good or bad.  I can only go with my gut feeling.  And my feeling is, if the players jump up and start cheering when the new coach is announced, then that's the right man for the job at that particular moment.  Now all he has to do is become the next, I don't know, Bo and everyone lives happily ever after.  (Yes, I am also deeply concerned for the future of the program.)

McSomething

January 13th, 2011 at 1:43 AM ^

I'm stilled pissed about all of this. That this guy was hired. That we had to go on a "national coaching search" that, apprently, really wasn't one starting on Jan 5th. That what looked like it was gonna be a pretty good recruiting class (if a bit small in actual numbers) is now all but gone at this point (how many of those players are actually left? Two?) That the guy I actually wanted was fired after only 3 years. Especially when it looked like there was serious potential for a great season upcoming.  I can't stand how DB has handled this whole thing. I'm sorry, but to me, he comes off as looking incompetant in all this.

Granted, there were a few things that needed changing. But I honestly thought there was absolutely no need to apparently blow everything the hell up and "get back to our roots" as it were. Which is exactly what the general consensus said we needed to get away from in 2007. The stagnation and apathy that seemed to have set in needed to get shaken out of the program. Hard. I hate it. All of it.

I hate that I'm still this upset about it. Even though, deep down, I knew it was coming. I hate the majority of people out there figured it was "Harbaugh or bust." That you "don't fire RR for someone other than JH." Well, so much for that. I hate that this new guy has, what, two "good" years in conference like the WAC and MAC. That he has a losing record overall as a HC.

I hate the hypocrisy of a lot of those out there that were sniping at RR from minute one. Now they're claiming that if you're not behind Hoke, you're against the program. I hate how there are still people insinuating RR was a "less than ethical" person on or off the field. How he was "responsible for major sanctions against the program." I thought those memes died a long time ago.

I hate the jihad the FreeP and co. waged on the program the last three years. I hate the hypocriscy they've shown in all this. How they looked for all the dirt they could find on our program during that time, even if it was only dust. And how they completely turned a blind eye to all the goings on over in East Lansing. How they decried RR as some vile guy while trying to get sainthood for Dantonio.

*sigh*

However, I do still love Michigan. I bleed Maize and Blue. Always have, always will. That'll never change. No matter who holds the HC position. It pains me that all of this has happened. I honestly hope this all works out. I want to be wrong about Hoke. I truly do. My fandom is not in question, nor should it be. I just feel incredibly numb. I quickly go from being hopeful for the future, to incredibly disappionted about what all has transpired, and back again. I think to myself "I'm done with football until the end of July." Only to log back on here 10 minutes later.

We, as a community (on-line and off) will all come back together soon. Or, at least, we should. However, it will take time. There is still some bitterness and resentment. For some, that likely won't go away until the new season starts. If not later. This "new experiment" will have to prove itself successful before the real healing begins, I suppose.

I should probably stop now before a set the record for the longest post on this board.

BlueDragon

January 13th, 2011 at 2:32 AM ^

The other parts of the post were similar to other things that have been posted in recent days.  I agree with a lot of what you say but the bit about recruiting is still TBD.  It's not necessarily a criticism when someone doesn't respond to everything in a mega-post :-)

Bluestreak

January 13th, 2011 at 5:54 AM ^

has fantastic credentials as a coach. He had a great record with WVU. He was the mythical 'promised land/title' type of coach - too good to fail.

But 3 years down the line - his performances while have improved, certainly are far from what we expected. In year 3 - he was where Carr left us.

Granted he had a bare cupboard, an all freshman defense, terrible injuries and stupid NCAA penalties - but - the Gator Bowl game kinda proved why we needed a change. The defense - whether due to GERGs incompetence or RR's directives to run a 3-3-5 was shambolic. It never improved year to year.

Our turnovers didn't improve - which I believe should have. That possibly cost us so many games. Fundamentally those problems should have been corrected - they were not. We kept losing the ball in crucial situations.

I think this is the reason RR (though I would have still wanted him to stay 1 more year) was fired. That being said, I still didn't see his Year 4 team beat the likes of OSU/ Wisconscin of this year. I think a lot of fans and DB possibly share that opinion.

While nobody is all gung ho about RR being fired or JH going to the NFL - I think Hoke is a solid coach. More importantly I think he wanted this job more than anything. Not for the money, nor the fame. But because he had something to give back.

Does BH win a championship in 3 years? Probably not. But I can certainly see him beating OSU. I believe he will - because he understands the rivalry better and that will rub off on the players.

RR is a great coach but he didn't show his best at Michigan. Not in the 3 years he was here.

dearbornpeds

January 13th, 2011 at 6:46 AM ^

It all comes down to recruiting and BH has very little time to complete this class. (Sounds eerily familiar.)  It's obvious he connected well with former players and knowledgeable people (Sam Webb) say he is an excellent recruiter.  While it may another year to see this, it is well worth the wait.

My concern is geographic and demographic.  The majority of the best high school football players reside in the South, the West, and Ohio.  Therefore we are constantly fighting an uphill battle against many colleges that are basically in the backyards of the kids we need to have playing for us.  We will get occasional athletes to come to Michigan but I fear not enough to compete with the best football programs in the country.

Furthermore we are disadvantaged by having ethical recruting practices and higher academic standards thereby further reducing the pool of eligible candidates.  There may be outlier years where we compete for a NC but I can't see this happening with any regularity.  I think Stanford this past year is an example of this phenomenon.

Brodie

January 14th, 2011 at 4:59 AM ^

Hoke knows California like the back of his hand... he worked in the Pac-10 for years, was our west coast recruiter and has been at SDSU. I'd be willing to guess he also has some tight connections in Ohio. These are the areas where we've traditionally gotten most of our talent, and both suffered as RR plunged head first into southern recruiting. I think refocusing on California and Ohio will net major gains for Michigan as our brand is already very well established... now we also have a foothold in Florida to exploit, which is what OSU and Wisky have been doing for 10 years now. I'm not worried about ability to recruit at all.

His Dudeness

January 13th, 2011 at 9:00 AM ^

I don't want to put words in anyones mouth, but I believe Biff is criticizing the hire and not the man.

The fact is Brady Hoke tickles everyones tummy with his enthusiasm, emotion and quips is all well and good, but that hasn't amounted to much as far as winning in his career as a head coach. I don't think that criticism is unwarrented.

I think the hire was poor because Brandon said his qualifications were that he loves Michigan and he wants to be here. I don't think those should be heavily weighted qualifications for a head football coach. It is great that he wants to be here, but winning at every level is a more important qualifier in my opinion.  I think DB made this hire out of nostalgia and that was a primary factor in the need for a new coach after Lloyd (as I remember people rabble-ing).

Not to get political, but this in some ways reminds me of the Bush speech after 9/11. He made a good speech at a time when people were kind of vulnerable and he got the backing of the American people to go to war with a nation that had nothing to do with the attack. That taught me never to get too emotional from a speech after all it is just a speech. We still need to look at the facts. The factys are Brady Hoke was an underwhelming hire when we were told it was going to be a blockbuster. I would be fine with the lackluster hire had it been for a coach who won everywhere he has been, but it wasn't. Good luck to Brady Hoke, but I don't think we all have to blindly follow him onto the hill. Biff has every right to his opinion because after looking at the facts we should all feel about the same way, uneasy.  

Brodie

January 14th, 2011 at 5:05 AM ^

if the logic is every coach should get 4 years to rebuild a team, than shouldn't we totally discount Hoke's 4 years of turning Ball State around? If we're supposed to totally ignore RR's first two years because EMPTY CUPBOARD, why must we blame Hoke for taking his time to turn Ball effing State into a good team? His overall record is completely irrelevant. He took over two throughly bad programs and turned them into winners... I really don't care if he lost more than he won in the process.

akblue

January 13th, 2011 at 10:13 AM ^

I really like the direction we're headed, and yes it might a direction that points toward our past. Michigan is about tradition, it's about the team, it's about the program, it's about the leaders and best. There is nothing wrong with our past-- I treasure it-- it is a part of the now. I am proud that the criteria laid out for the new coach had to do with passion and belief in something bigger than the ego of the individuals involved.

I'm an irrational fanatic. In my narrow minded, childish, believe in Santa Claus like view of Michigan-- we are the leaders and best. I got sick of the polls many years ago and started keeping my own-- the good news is that despite our poor record this year Michigan is still number 1.

It seems that many on this board are often concerned with being right. Second guess every last morsel of information, parse every word-- always looking to be the new idea-- and defending ourselves in argument and hind sight, rather than looking for solutions and projecting the dominant values of this institution.

That kind of thing is fun for people, I get it. It's an intellectual debate and gives a people a chance to flex their sports intellect and make thier mark.

I'm with the coach. This is Michigan. You can have your opinions and say what ever you want, but in the end, this is the greatest football program in history. I love it. This is Michign for God's sake!

akblue

January 13th, 2011 at 11:24 AM ^

Analysis and emphasis on excellence and good decision making exemplifies what is important about Michigan.

"Wanting" is the part that gets sketchy... an arguentative want spirals quickly donw the path of subjectivity... and if I'm going down that path (the subjective one) it's all about blind faith, passion, and fanaticism. That's just me... my intention is/was not to pass judgement on anyone else.

Just trying to make the case for putting energy into the positive, inclusive aspects of my own fandom...

torontosaurus rex

January 13th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^

because I support M, but that doesn't mean we have to pretend he's all that qualified to be the head coach. It's an objectively questionable hire that we all hope works out. And maybe it will. But this "clap louder" stuff just sounds like an attempt to silence opinions that you disagree with, even if you mean well.

Here's an analogy: imagine a basketball player who takes an ill-advised three pointer. If it goes in, does that mean it was a good idea to shoot? Of course not. But you're still happy if it does. So that's where I'm at right now, and I think many others probably feel the same way. BH's resume makes this a questionable hire no matter what and I'm skeptical that it will work out, but all I care about is that it does.

joeyb

January 13th, 2011 at 10:42 AM ^

Notice that I never stated my opinion about the hire? That's because it doesn't matter.

RR missed 3 after 3 even though we knew he is a historically good shooter and we still supported him because of that. Now, you've got the sophomore player who was average as a freshman taking his first shot of the year. You cheer him on until he misses and then you keep cheering until he gets pulled.