Hypothetical Scenario: Should UM ever leave the Big Ten (again)?

Submitted by crg on
So, as many already know, Michigan parted with the Big Ten for 10 years back in the early 1900s, mainly because the conference was changing rules that ultimately made UM less competitive (http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/why-did-michigan-withdraw-big-ten-circa-1907). The independent experience was not very satisfying and UM rejoined the conference in 1917. Fast forward a century, we still seem to be having issues (according to many on this blog) with the conference (in football at least). So, as an excersise for the board, if Michigan did finally tell Delaney to get bent, where should they go? Try independent again or maybe negotiate a nice deal with the ACC (bringing in Notre Dame as a 16 team conference), or something else? This would probably never happen anyway, but it is interesting to consider.
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goblue16

November 20th, 2017 at 9:15 PM ^

Plz delete this I’m already depressed as it is and Michigan basketball is about to start forget football for 4 hours and let’s enjoy som bball

Joined: 03/28/2010

MGoPoints: 17468

crg

November 20th, 2017 at 9:33 PM ^

As opposed to following Delaney's leadership? The point of a conference is to benefit the member schools. If the arrangement no longer benefits us (not purely in financial terms), then there is nothing wrong in looking elsewhere. This is not a marriage.

Joined: 04/30/2015

MGoPoints: 75037

SpilledMilk

November 20th, 2017 at 10:40 PM ^

We'd be faced with similar problems. Clemson, FSU and (seemingly) Miami would be a major hindrance to our NC dreams. Nothing will change until we a) recruit better talent, and b) run a system that takes advantage of said talent.

Joined: 10/15/2017

MGoPoints: 2895

Blumami

November 20th, 2017 at 9:32 PM ^

Here's the conference that I want to see: UM, Cal, Stanford, NW, Rice, Tulane, Vandy, UVA, etc. Everyone plays by the (same) rules -- on the field and off -- or you're out. I had UNC in this dream conference up until a couple of years ago but they have proven that they don't belong. 'What about Norte Dame?' you ask... to hell with Notre Dame!

Joined: 07/09/2016

MGoPoints: 578

ndscott50

November 20th, 2017 at 9:32 PM ^

The big ten is a significant part of who we are as Michigan. As noted in other post the connections between the schools go beyond athletics. There is a shared history and cultural connection between the schools that has value in addition to the non academic connections.

The main thing wrong of late is that the leaders of the universities did not value this culture enough and let in Maryland and Rutgers who are not a fit.

The big ten is a great conference made up of some the finest public universities in the world. The midwestern nature of the member institutions also made the conference unique. I have always been proud to be a member of the conference. Now if people could just leave well enough alone and quit trying to add members. It’s a great conference. Leave it the heck alone (and kick out Rutgers and Maryland)

Joined: 10/02/2009

MGoPoints: 5774

crg

November 20th, 2017 at 9:41 PM ^

The big ten is not what it once was. Different people have varying opinions about the changes made to it over the years. Many didn't want Rutgers and Maryland. Adding Nebraska got a lukewarm reception. Bo HATED the idea of adding PSU (as did most of the other ADs in the conference at the time, but Delaney and the school presidents overrode them because of $$$). A very large contingent thought Michigan State College did not belong in because of their weak academics (still not great). OSU was the first non-founding school added later, and they did not have great academics either. My loyalty is to UM. I really don't care about being in or out of the big ten - whichever is best for us.

Joined: 04/30/2015

MGoPoints: 75037

crg

November 21st, 2017 at 11:36 AM ^

Why, just because I'm interested in what's best for our school and program and have no interest in "conference pride"? I've been following the team for several decades now and it seems to me as though the Big Ten conference gets more benefit from UM's presence in it than Michigan does. You can start a "B-I-G! B-I-G!" chant if you like, but I would prefer to keep my eyes open and options available.

Joined: 04/30/2015

MGoPoints: 75037

HailHail47

November 20th, 2017 at 10:39 PM ^

Moving conferences aside, we should push our weight around a bit more with the conference. Brandon made not so much as a squeal while the conference gave us two MSU road games in a row. That's the gift that keeps on giving. I also wish Warde verbally supported Harbaugh after last year's officiating. Canham would have supported Bo.

Joined: 10/07/2017

MGoPoints: 5305

CarrIsMyHomeboy

November 21st, 2017 at 8:36 AM ^

I don't believe in Big Ten conspiracies. Delany is bad at his job. So are the refs. But I do not believe any of them, each season (or any season), tries to make certain teams wins or lose.That is exceedingly unlikely and cannot be more the circumstantially supported. Meanwhile, they do suck at their jobs. The refs in particular make unacceptable errors in all directions with astounding frequency. So the incompetence of the Big Ten is fair game -- and grating.

I wish it were possible for Michigan to initiate a fund that would contribute (more than 1 team's fair share) toward getting full-time refs, as the NFL has. They wouldn't be perfect, either, because no refs are, but they'd be paid well enough to be competitively hired and trained well enough to approach "max reffing" on average, or at least get much closer.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 7324

GeorgetownTom

November 20th, 2017 at 11:07 PM ^

Leaving the B1G would be the worst decision the Univeristy of Michigan could ever make. Academically, athletically, culturally, geographically, etc., Michigan is a perfect fit in the B1G. If you could engineer the perfect B1G school from scratch, it would be Michigan. But I'll play along.

Option #1: Independent Footbal/Power 5 Non-Football

Full Independent is a non starter in this day and age but this hybrid option still is highly problematic. First of all, Michigan would be lucky to get a quarter of the revenue it receives now as a B1G school (about $50MM annually over the next 5 years). Texas got around $11MM for the Longhorn Network and they are located in a massive, rapidly growing state with a large fanbase that will only get larger. ND gets around $15MM from NBC.

Setting aside this breach in fiduciary duty, going Independent would put Michigan on the path to becoming Notre Dame Lite. As soon as ND loses 2 games, their season is over with no conference or division titles to play for. ND does pop up every few years with a good team, but most years ND is average, overrated, out of sight and out of mind. That would be Michigan's fate considering Michigan has contended for an NC just twice since 1997. Michigan would also be blacklisted from scheduling any B1G teams as an Independent (at least in the near future) so say goodbye to the MSU and OSU rivalries. 

Option #2: Join a Power 5 league

Certainly, leagues would be clamoring to add Michigan, but are there other leagues that are attractive to Michigan?

Michigan has nothing in common with the Big 12 and the sparsely populated flyover states of West Virginia, Iowa, Kansas, and Oklahoma. Texas is the only Big 12 school near Michigan's level, but Texas would be a middle of the road B1G school. Michigan would also never join a league that is destined to break up within 10 years.

Similarly, Michigan has nothing in common with most of SEC schools or the rural South. Really hard to see Michigan wanting to associate with Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky and Ole Miss.

Michigan has the most in common with the Pac 12 (Stanford, Cal, USC, UCLA, Washington) but traveling to and from the West Coast for every single game would probably not be best from an expense or competition standpoint.

That leaves the ACC, which is a mix of the South (bad fit) and Northeast (better fit). However, ACC schools are much smaller than Michigan and much more into basketball. If you're upset about playing Maryland and Rutgers, just wait for thrilling games against apathetic fanbases in Pitt, Syracuse, Wake Forest, UNC, Duke, Virginia, Miami (when they aren't good) and Georgia Tech all in half empty stadiums.

As you can see, these are all bad options. The Pac 12 would be my choice, that's still such a terrible option relative to staying in the B1G, you know the conference that MIchigan helped establish and build over the course of 100 years. The conference where Michigan is still the #1 school despite struggling in football the past decade.

Anyway, since this is fantasy land, I'd like to proppose a fantasy conference that I actually wouldn't mind seeing Michigan join should every conference break up. I call it the Big Public:

EAST
Virginia
Michigan
UNC
Georgia Tech
Florida
Penn State
Ohio State

WEST
Cal
UCLA
Wisconsin
Illinois
Texas
Washington
Minnesota

These are really Michigan's athletic/academic peers. Of note, 6 of these are B1G schools, yet another reason why Michigan belongs in the B1G.


 

Joined: 10/08/2017

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You Only Live Twice

November 21st, 2017 at 9:49 AM ^

Upvoted for all the work you put into this post.  I think it makes sense to not automatically rule anything out, or in.  All of the reasons for staying in the B1G are history based and history is no longer helping us now as far as I can tell.  I'd love to see MSU lose their reason for existing - and Delaney lose revenue.  The blatant cheating by the conference in the Game last year is not something I can rationalize away by saying, recruit better play better score more points.  At this point I'm going on Saturday because I want our coaches and players to see Michigan fans there.  I simply do not believe we have a level playing field anymore.  

Joined: 09/14/2013

MGoPoints: 9615

PackardandState

November 21st, 2017 at 11:12 AM ^

Ive been promoting this idea for years to no one that matters:  9 schools:  Duke, UVA, Vandy,Michigan, Notre Dame, Northwestern, USC, UCLA, Standford.  Everyone plays everyone each season then 2 non-conf rivalry games.  For Michigan its OSU and MSU.  10 game season, then expand CFP to 8 teams and if your really good you get 13 games and when bad only 10, mercifully.

Lots of good rivalaries across multiple sports and everyone would hate Duke and Stanford equally.

I know it will never happen

 

Joined: 11/21/2017

MGoPoints: 7

Leatherstocking Blue

November 21st, 2017 at 3:13 PM ^

The Big Ten makes too much sense for Michigan in all sports. However, a football-only conference would be possible that is national in scope. It could be divided among the blue blood programs that do not want to be constrained by the NCAA rules and could go as far as compensating players. Obviously, there are only 30 or so teams that could afford to participate, but college football is an arms race already. 

Perhaps two East divisions and two West divisions with about 8 teams in each dvision. The money generated would offset the additional travel and leave the original conferences for the non-revenue sports.

Joined: 07/11/2013

MGoPoints: 2718

Wolvie3758

November 20th, 2017 at 11:28 PM ^

that opposed to leaving the BIG TEN...But it would have to be something more financially rewarding than staying in the conference..I wouldnt mind being independent and scheduling all across the nation but I know this will never happen

Joined: 12/12/2010

MGoPoints: 6338

Wolvmarine

November 20th, 2017 at 11:32 PM ^

I’d rather Michigan Just build a case in order to sue the Big Ten.

I despise the Big Ten and Jim Delaney. Hypothetically if Michigan were to leave it would need some sort of close geographic school like a Notre Dame to pair with. Join the Big12 and have it rename itself the Western Conference.

Joined: 08/28/2008

MGoPoints: 6156

You Only Live Twice

November 20th, 2017 at 11:35 PM ^

Just not sure how I feel about the whole thing.  Sometimes the boxes have to be unpacked and repacked before things make sense.

Joined: 09/14/2013

MGoPoints: 9615

Baugh So Har

November 21st, 2017 at 9:14 AM ^

But I'm just about fed up with the B1G (officiating, expansion, Jim Delany, etc.) and can't believe how receptive I feel towards this. We'd still play MSU and OSU obviously, I just wish we had threatened to leave back when Maryland and Assgers were on the table. Athletically this conference seems more trouble than it's worth.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: 1890

GGV

November 20th, 2017 at 11:48 PM ^

I like the question.

 

It could be rephrased as “what value does the B1G bring Michigan?”

 

Michigan could clearly have most of or even more money if it were to go independent.

 

The officiating in the B1G is horseshit, so really negative value in that respect. Considering Delany sits in on officiating meetings….

 

The B1G didn’t prevent Ohio State from going SEC and paying players / impermissible benefits. Negative value. Main value of a conference is keeping every team playing by the same set of rules.  That isn’t happening.

 

The B1G didn’t stand up for Michigan when FREEP / NCAA came with a trumped up investigation into freaking practice time.

 

I question if the CIC is really of that much value in the information age.

 

Tradition and geography are probably the best two reasons to stay in.

 

Best solution is to get rid of shitty Delany.  Bo hated him for good reason.

 

Joined: 09/06/2010

MGoPoints: 1243

Putt4Birdie

November 21st, 2017 at 6:23 AM ^

The helpless feeling of watching us get hosed over and over should inspire us fans to a call to action. If the school is failing to hire the right people or influence the right entities to correct the problem then someone on our side of the wall needs to find a way to tip the scale back to a level playing field. We need lawyers, guns and money ( song reference ) mafia connections higher up the food chain than OSU, million fan march, social media barrage with pics and vids of evidence, private investigators to gather all the dirt possible on all the nefarious characters involved, jilted escorts, full strength of Hollywood influence ( no predators please), former refs willing to come clean under with full witness protection program, and anything else helpful you guys can come up with. Ok, let's do this! I will volunteer my services to be one of the protesters for the million fan march and share examples of "the evidence" on social media once someone puts together a neat package who specializes in that sort of thing. We can't just sit back and say nothing's working and I haven't tried anything, ( a la beatnik Ned Flanders ).

Joined: 07/14/2017

MGoPoints: 1923

UMFanInFlorida

November 21st, 2017 at 6:54 AM ^

In hockey, yes. Hockey would be far better off with four major conferences based off geography that takes into account the number of otherwise MAC or D-II schools that play at this level. Oh wait....

Joined: 10/20/2012

MGoPoints: 2277

Mongo

November 21st, 2017 at 8:13 AM ^

For football, get rid of the conference title games and expand the playoffs to 16 teams. The B1G could then drop this East / West division thing which ruins the conference scheduling. Right now it is like we have two conferences in football.

Joined: 06/25/2016

MGoPoints: 9585