How hurt is denard from the last cheap shot in the game?

Submitted by ThadMattasagoblin on October 17th, 2011 at 3:12 PM

Anybody know anything?  Is it just something that he will shake off or will it linger a while.

Comments

michgoblue

October 17th, 2011 at 3:14 PM ^

I doubt we will find out anything concrete - the fort is in place.  Hoke will day "Denard has a booboo.  He is working on it and he is practicing with some limitations" or something that is both vague and uses the word booboo.

Blue boy johnson

October 17th, 2011 at 3:16 PM ^

it's a boo boo on his third dilithium plate, he will be fine. Do dilithiums come plated? I really don't know much about them. Maybe I should start a thread to see if anybody else knows.

Section 1

October 17th, 2011 at 3:19 PM ^

Because ought to be the basis for Marcus Rush's suspension.

To me, this one is a very big deal.  There's no doubt in my mind that Gholston will sit for one game.  But I want Rush to sit for that game too. 

Section 1

October 17th, 2011 at 3:42 PM ^

I feel certain that it will be one game for Gholston.  Not two.  I could be wrong, but that's what I think.

Two guys suspended from the same team, both for aggravated fouls, would be unprecedented in recent B1G history, I think.  And I do think that fan-lobbying ought to be done with regard to Marcus Rush.  It almost seems as though Gholston's thuggery is overshadowing Rush's crime.  Rush would be a much bigger story right now, but for Gholston's remarkable violence.

I'd rather have both Rush and Gholston taken out at once, rather than Gholston for two games.  I think that hurts MSU more.  I also think it sends a stronger message to Narduzzi. 

2plankr

October 17th, 2011 at 3:57 PM ^

There is a zero percent chance that rush gets suspended.  I'll bet you a dollar.  Plays like that happen ALL THE TIME.  Sure this one was clearly intentional, but thats not really a distinction thats going to matter in this context

At the same time, hopefully Hoke and DB are working behind the scenes to get whatever goodwill/scrutiny they can out of this.  I guess I might be okay with Brandon saying something in public too, but it would have to be done just right, and I'm not sure thats even possible

Section 1

October 17th, 2011 at 4:13 PM ^

Let's get Marcus Rush suspended.

As I wrote elsewhere, Rush would likely have been fined it he'd done that to an NFL QB.  The Big Ten doesn't fine players.

It was a personal foul, flagged as such (I do think that the Conference has a few issues when there is no flag, although that didn't stop them from suspending Mouton), with what I think was a clear intent to injure.  Most of all the attempt to injure Denard Robinson was successful.  It was every bit as bad as a helmet-to-helmet hit.  A QB in a vulnerable position.

Suspend Marcus Rush!!!

2plankr

October 17th, 2011 at 4:40 PM ^

I agree with you almost 100% on this, including the desire to publicize it.  Thats why I consolidated all those videos into one thread.  The more people that email Delany the better.  I'm disappointed its not front and center on EDSBS - we need someone to put together one compelling gif ala the spikes or fairley incidents, and for Brian to lean on Hinton and Spencer Hall.  Sure a segment will accuse us of bitching but for the cfb fans that matter, those plays put together are appaling.  And this has very little to do with who won the game for me (kind of cant believe I have to make that disclaimer)

Just don't hold your breath on Rush.  It aint gonna happen.

Section 1

October 17th, 2011 at 4:57 PM ^

I really don't care what anybody says about it, either.  I don't care if anybody calls us whiners.  Sparty hates us.  We hate Sparty and there's no great issue as to us respecting them or wanting their respect.  Let's just fuck them up if we can.  And I think we can.

Look, the Gholston thing is clear-cut.  He's going to be suspended.  And he's going to get one game, ostensibly for a punch, although the video of the helmet-twisiting is an outrage.

More should be done.  The question is, another game for Gholston? Or should other Spartans be suspended?  I think there is a real issue with Narduzzi's coaching, and one clear and solid message would be to supsend Gholston for the obvious reason(s) and also suspend Rush for the clear-cut violation-with-intent-to-injure.

I just don't think it is much of a stretch to suspend Rush, and I don't understand why anybody would think that it is a reach.  Why?  It was an unusually vicious sort of personal foul; "after the play" as Bill Carollo mentioned.  An intent to hurt Denard Robinson.  An actual injury to Denard Robinson.

By any measure that I can think of, given the resulting injury, it was every bit as bad as the late hit that got Zach Reckman suspended.  I'm going to look for the Kurt Coleman suspension video, too.

SUSPEND MARCUS RUSH!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit. -- Here is the play that got Kurt Coleman suspended.  I submit that Marcus Rush's foul was worse than this, and worse than Reckman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-PTEr78pcs 

Yeoman

October 17th, 2011 at 5:52 PM ^

...how about some censure of Narduzzi for his postgame comments that appear to condone deliberate attempts to injure?

Suspension, fine, public reprimand, I don't care what the censure is. I want the coach's responsibility for this stuff to be acknowledged.

Section 1

October 17th, 2011 at 6:36 PM ^

While it may be an indirect one, I think that perhaps the best route to sending Narduzzi a message is to suspend both Gholston and Rush.  That'll really hurt Narduzzi's defense.

At the same time, in no way do I think that it would be making an unfair or needless example out of Marcus Rush.  Rush deserves a suspension.  On his own.  For what he did to Denard.  It's just that Narduzzi's malevolence makes it a perfect sanction for the both of them.

Yeoman

October 17th, 2011 at 8:44 PM ^

We've seen appalling on-field conduct before, and we'll never get rid of it. A player is going to occasionally lose his head, and more rarely a player is going to do something calculated. We assess the penalty, hand down the suspension, move on

But where we broke new ground here is with the coaches. Tressel's response to the Reynolds-Sorgi incident was to publicly state that there's no place in the game for that and suspend the player himself. No coach at Auburn ever said that Fairley's behavior is "what we want to see." For a coach to be permitted to go there, without explicit censure, threatens the integrity of the game in a way that no on-field incident ever can.

Section 1

October 17th, 2011 at 3:40 PM ^

I'd be very happy if Gohlston's suspension was 2, 3 or 30 games.  I just don't think it will be more than one.

But yes, a pure punch is virtually automatic.  Per Bill Carollo (Head of Officiating), who is going to sit in Judgment of Gholston:

How did the officials grade in the five areas of focus?

Bill Carollo: We did a pretty good job on pass interference and helmet-to-helmet hits. Those two areas were in our focus areas. We're right about 95 percent of the time when we throw the flag. It's 5 percent that we're incorrect when we throw the flag, and then there's areas when we don't throw the flag and we should have. Maybe that's another 10-15 percent in some of these major categories. So we're trying to get everyone to a certain performance level that the coaches expect. There could be a mistake or two. We pray that it's not a game-deciding penalty. We just don't want to guess. So if they are only 90 percent sure, it looks like maybe it's [a penalty], we tell them, 'Don't throw it. Be 100 percent sure, and if you aren't sure, just keep the flag in your pocket.' Because guessing, at best you're going to be 50 percent because you don't have all the facts. You see the tail end of a play and you think it's a low block, it's a side block, a crack-back [block], and then when you back and see the whole thing, the guy turned on him, he was pushed into him, there's reasons why he ended up there. So let it go.

Three weeks in a row, you handed out discipline for on-field conduct. What type of message did that send, and how was it received around the league?

BC: Helmet-to-helmet and player safety is probably our No. 1 area that we focused on as coaches and as officials. Because the focus should be on the player. We had some situations that we did obviously take some disciplinary action on certain plays. The conference makes that decision on Monday. I tracked all of our unnecessary roughness fouls, and we called them early in the year, and we told the coaches we were going to continue to call them. And if we get only nine out of 10 right and we missed one and we did throw the flag for player safety, I can live with that. I don't like it. I want to be 100 percent [accurate], but the reality is we saw less helmet-to-helmet hits as the season went. We tracked them by week, all 13 weeks. And our accuracy [in calling the fouls] has gone up. Part of it has to do with some of the training, reinforcing those areas. At the same time, talking to the coaches and saying, 'Coach, that's a foul, and here's the reason why it's a foul, and we're going to continue to call it, so you need to tell the players not to lead with the helmet, don't use the crown of the helmet, don't try to punish, even though you're trying to make a play. And if it's close, you'll probably get a flag.' I'm telling our guys, 'Clean that up,' and we did. So I think the results were very good.

I had athletic directors and coaches disappointed in some of the discipline we did take, and they didn't always agree, but I was comfortable that what we were doing is the right thing, and that's what the NCAA wants. And they knew we were going to continue to throw the flag.

Two of those incidents [Jonas Mouton's punch and Zach Reckman's late hit] were either after a game or after a play. Did you see a reduction in those situations?

BC: It's the same thing. They need to control themselves, and coaches need to control their players. The game is over. The play is over. And we didn't throw a flag on one of those [Mouton vs. Notre Dame]. Any time there is a punch, the rule book's pretty clear. That's automatic. If you don't throw a guy out for throwing a punch, when do you? That's pretty clear. No one likes it. I don't like disciplining the players, especially when they're trying to make a play, a football play. When the play's over and it's not a football play, they don't get as much of a break from me. That's control. That's player discipline. 

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/tag/_/name/bill-carollo 

By the way, people, I expect this ruling TODAY.  Or else made today, commmunicated to MSU later today and then announced tomorrow morning.  So now is the time to make yourselves known to Delany's office.  Let them know about how you feel about Gholston, and also a suspension for Marcus Rush.

Fredgoblu

October 17th, 2011 at 11:29 PM ^

...is the fact that Gholston wasn't immediately ejected for the punch. In the old days, that used to be automatic. This is two times our guys have been punched this season...and the refs response has been "move along, nothing to see here." Simply incredible. Does Jim Delany tell his crews to look the other way when Michigan is playing?

Fredgoblu

October 17th, 2011 at 11:17 PM ^

Gholston's 2 should be Wisconsin and next year's Michigan game. Rush's should be next year.
<br>
<br>OSU's 5-game suspensions benefitted one B1G team...MSU.
<br>
<br>There's no reason the other conference teams should benefit from their cheap-shots against us. We should benefit.
<br>
<br>Narducci should get a suspension, too...and some B1G sensitivity training.

Tater

October 17th, 2011 at 11:30 PM ^

I don't agree with two games being fair, but I can see how someone may think it is.  I think deliberate attempt to injure should carry more than a two-game penalty at the supposedly-amateur level.  If this was an Olympic sport, he would be out for a year if not banned for life.

TheOldQB

October 17th, 2011 at 3:52 PM ^

Anyone notice as Rush walked the sideline after the play, of the high five he got? Taking one of our best players out of the game last year and now targeting Denard this year would it suprise anyone of a bounty for Michigan stars.

What a pathetic explanation by Gholston of his actions that led to his dirty plays. "Youthful inexperience", my butt!!!

More pathetic was the lack of any meaningful acknowledgement coming out of the mouths of the two OSU announcers. Speilman, "Looked like some kind of a big time wrestling move." when Gholston tried to take Denards head off.

markusr2007

October 17th, 2011 at 3:51 PM ^

Dantonio's press conferences are usually later in the week (Wednesdays), so another missed opportunity for the MSU coaching staff to take a stand on the issue and set an example of what they mean by "ZERO TOLERANCE!"

Dantonio, Narduzzi and unnecessary roughness for the win.

 

dahblue

October 17th, 2011 at 5:49 PM ^

That hit on Denard wasn't the last cheap shot. Consider Dantonio calling a play instead of taking a knee after Hoke chose not to call our last timeout. Next, we've got the Spartan players running up to our squad and waving "goodbye" as we left the field. I (randomly) was listening to the Msu radio broadcast at that time and they even called it classless. Finally, sounds as if Gholston talked trash to Hoke after the game as well.
While not technically "shots", these were all cheap and classless - pure Sparty.

dahblue

October 18th, 2011 at 5:50 PM ^

I think we'd all like to see more press on this, but what we've seen so far is a decent amount.  Even your boy Rosenberg wrote a clear piece.  The only voices in dissent are Valenti and Sharp (is that the other guy?) who say that State shouldn't suspend him and should wait for the B1G to rule.  I don't understand that logic, but it's the talk.  Not MSU on the rise; just "MSU is dirty".