The Hot Seat

Submitted by ijohnb on October 28th, 2012 at 4:28 PM

Hoke is not the one to take anything public regarding his concerns, and I thought Rich Rod's willingness to throw specific help at least  near the bus if not completely under it was his worst quality and not the way to go about business.  That being said, Borges has to be a concern at this point.  His seat may not be hot yet, but it needs to be warm at a minimum.  Regardless of who you have running your offense, and regardless of if he isn't your dream come true, your schemes at least need to make sense, to somebody, anybody.  I have taken Brian's concerns with Borges a little sarcasticly to date, but I have to say I am concerned that portions of what I am seeing border on incompetence, and they are being accepted as the status quo. 

I am not going to debate that Borges has impressed me from time to time with specific calls, but the number of times that his offensive philosophy against specific defenses has been outright baffling is too many to count on one hand now, and I think it is more than just a side note at this point.  I understand that Denard going down was a blow, but backup quarterbacks can be remotely effective, and at least not outright humiliating as was the case last night.  Bellomy was never rumored to be John Elway, but at the same time I don't think anybody took him for a fish out of water when he came in.  True, our offensive line is not record breaking, but we are not converting defensive lineman for god's sake, this line is nobody's leftovers, they are a pretty solid group.   

Hoke hired Borges in 08, and Borges' offenses at SDSU were solid enough, but I don't know if Hoke is married enough to Borges that he is in untouchable territory.  Shane, along with the best offensive lineman class in the history of the world  are certainly reason for optimism, but I have to say that Borges should be answering for something right now.  I am not expecting the best show on turf here, I am just asking for a little rhyme and reason, and perhaps that there is a Plan B available in the case Denard cannot go.  An injury to your starting quarterback is tough, but not tough enough to look like a fairly competitive high school team in the aftermath.  I have been a Borges supporter, but last night was alarming even before Denard's injury. 

Here's to hoping that this offense can get right before it ventures to Horseshoe, because the cat is out of the bag, this offense in ineffective right now, and I think it is acheiving beneath its personnel.  Am I seeing this clearly, or is this misplaced?  I would love to know.

Comments

MGoKereton

October 28th, 2012 at 4:32 PM ^

Once Hoke and co. get Juniors and Seniors that they've recruited, then we can judge their effectiveness. We're still dealing with the round Denard peg in the square Borges hole, and I don't know how much we can actually pin that on Borges because he doesn't have a whole lot of experience dealing with somebody like him.

We got lucky with bounces last year, disguising a probable 8-4/9-3 record to 10-2. We're not getting as lucky this year.

To be fair, I do think Borges deserves a bit of the blame. Some of these playcalls have been mind-blowing.

wolverine1987

October 28th, 2012 at 5:57 PM ^

My concern is that I think we saw with Denard down what the offense may be like next year as well. Why do I say that?

First, because outside of Denard (gone), Lewan (who may be gone too) and arguably, Funchess, I think we have seen that the rest of our offensive players are just guys. By just guys I mean average B1G players. And average B1G players are at this point, not great players by national standards.

Second, whatever your opinion about Borges, I think it is well established that he will not have a "schematic advantage" over most good defenses we face next year. He may be a perfectly competent OC, and I don't hold the OP's view that he should be on the hot seat, but IMO it is beyond dispute that Borges does not, for whatever reason, have game plans that stymie, confuse, or in any way make defenses hesitate, especially in big games. And with average players scheme becomes more important, just as with elite players it loses some importance.

I'm not saying panic, but I don't think next year, with at least 2-3 freshman on the O-line, a possible Freshman QB, (and neither Bellomy or Devin have shown a thing, so their presence wouldn't change this view), average WR's, and average RB's, is going to be anythig to get excited about, and potentially it could be very disappointing.  Hope I'm wrong.

switch26

October 28th, 2012 at 5:41 PM ^

lol no shit.. completely agree.. if we aren't dominating in a couple years then what?  RR got ousted after a few years, so why not hoke and company if we are still mediocre?

 

We will most likely tread down the path of consistent 8-4 or 9-3 wins and Brandon will be happy with it.  

wolpherine2000

October 28th, 2012 at 6:07 PM ^

...Nebraska and Frank Solich.  The difference between 12-0 and 9-3 has something to do with coaching, but also quite a bit to do with luck.  When you fire someone good, hoping for someone great, sometimes you get Bill Callahan. 

So be patient, and have a little faith...  Who knows?:  Tom Brady may one day turn out to be a better quarterback than Drew Henson!

coastal blue

October 28th, 2012 at 6:47 PM ^

Wait, so you're saying coaches should be given at least 4 years to build a team? What a novel concept!

In all seriousness though, you're right. We have got to stop the unrealistic expectations and understand that we had 3 coaches in 6 years. The first coach slacked on his recruiting for the last few years of his career. The second coach walked into that bad situation and couldn't handle it and the situation deteriorated further due to both inside and outside reasons (seriously, its gotta be tough to recruit when people are calling for your job half a season deep).  Now, after a few bad games of the second season of the new coach's tenure, we're ready to fire his OC because he isn't a good fit with the second coach's starting QB.

 

Its gotta stop somewhere. 

 

funkywolve

October 28th, 2012 at 11:10 PM ^

Carr's last 4 years of recruiting went according to Rivals:

2004:  8th, one 5 star

2005: 6th, one 5 star

2006: 13th (19 recruits overall), two 5 stars.  If you go by average stars/player they ranked in a tie for 5th.

2007: 12th (20 recruits overall), two 5 stars.  Only 3 teams ranked higher didn't have at least 25 recuites. 

funkywolve

October 29th, 2012 at 1:19 AM ^

Carr recruited a number of 4 star db's and lb's his last 4 years (Micheal Williams, Donovan Warren, Stevie Brown, Cobrani Mixon, Jonas Mouton, Brandon Harrison, Chris Graham, Chris Rogers).  Are all  these guys going to pan out?  Of course not.  But watching Mattison turn what was one of the worst defenses in the country in 2010 into a damn good defense in 2011 makes me think it wasn't so much that the talent wasn't there, but rather the coaching was just god awful on the defensive side of the ball. 

coastal blue

October 29th, 2012 at 9:31 AM ^

One thing that people just seem completely ignorant on: Those little FRs or SRs next to the names? They matter.

Yes, Mattison is wonderful. He's been nothing but amazing. He's a fantastic DC.

But do you honestly think that in 2010 our defense would have been that much better with our entire secondary made up of freshmen and sophomores? Do you think Mattison is going to turn SO Floyd, FR Vinopal, SO Kovacs, FR Avery, FR Talbott, FR Christen, etc. into a top 20 group? 

That's what so many people just cannot seem to grasp: Mattison could probably have coached those guys up to their full potential and maybe we make a few more stops here and there, but when you don't have at least SOME experience to mask a freshman here or there (like Mattison has had these past two years) things can get ugly fast. 

 

scorpz79goblue

October 29th, 2012 at 7:36 AM ^

first off i must admit i dont care for borgess,you are right in saying its not his recruit in denard,but thats just an excuse to throw out, first he is a coach that calls plays,and boy let me tell you his play calling has rattled me to the point of me asking wtf is he thinking,yes denard is not great passer, but denard can still throw a good ball,no this is not all of borgess fault, recievers are dropping good balls too, but as i said HE IS THE COACH,and hes had time to implement something more stable than what ive witnessed the last couple games,i also blame hoke for not sittin toussaint down and playin some more of rawls,he should have known by now that fitz season aint goin nowhere ,it  has showed,and to not at least let rawls try..to do anything is beyond me, id be lying if i said i wasnt one calling for borgess job if this continues,lets hope he had bad days and  is  outta this no sense calling,we have some games left to see,so yeah not all his fault but no excuse, its his job to have them up and goin ,thats like saying greg mattison didnt do nothin to the defense cause they where rods,bullcrap, a good coach prepares his team well,and it shows in his coaching,we will not win the biggest test for us in ohio coming up if this offense continues like it has, defense  is good but they need this group to step up,and its silly that we do have talent at recieving gardner can catch, dileo,hell gallon..and funchess, even got roundtree,nope im not accepting excuses,just lack of good coaching and players not bein utilized or just overplayin,underplayin,not just borgess but that whole offense needs to get real about who they are,hell the only offense in last games we have had to rely on is kicker gibbons..id rather see denard keep plugging passes downfield to show teams we arent scared to pass, but we mostly get caught in trying tooo many run plays, we shouldnt be running on no 3 down when last 2 where runs as well,that kind of calling hasnt and will not work on bigger team,to win on run we must get respect of our pass,denard is a playmaker not our evry play saviour,its time to step up playcalling and start to hold these recievers more accountable

justingoblue

October 28th, 2012 at 4:50 PM ^

We're going with Saban as DC, Chip Kelly as OC, RR as QB coach, Frank Beamer is taking over special teams, and Pat Narduzzi will fill the newly created "Unnecessary Roughness Coordinator" position.

Also, Desmond is coming back to coach WR's, Mattison will stay on as DL coach, Kirby Smart is taking over LB's, Woodson will trade the Packers locker room for an office at Schembechler Hall as DB's coach, and Tom Brady will take over recruiting coordinator duties while Gisele heads up the team of hostesses.

Now we'll never have to worry about losing in Lincoln again!

ole luther

October 29th, 2012 at 11:49 AM ^

Everyone liked the "ForGodSakes" quote at the hire, but it isn't funny anymore. Been a season ticket holder for over 20 years and it isn't funny anymore.

We, as fans, were screwed before and during the RR hire and since the Brandon hire, are continuing to get screwed. It's about butts in seats....not tradition.....not pride.....

If our backup qtrback has an injured shoulder to the point that he can't go up for a ball in the endzone....and cannot play qb.......that's on the coaches!  Can't use his shoulder to hold a ball from center, so, maybe he can catch it if it falls in his jock?!?....that's on the coaches.  If he's lazy, or inept, or they see some other thing they don't like....why is he playing at all???

When u have 2 timeouts left, in a threatening scoring position with just under a minute left in the half AND have just put in your 3rd string QB and you don't burn one of your timeouts to get everyone on the same page AND to give ur OC a little more time  to plan to try to score before halftime.....that's on the coaches.....during practice......during scrimmages......during the game.......that's on the coaches!

Hoke and Borgess and Mattison may very well have this grand plan to dominate when "their" boys come to harvest, but, I doubt it seriously.  If u can't manage the clock (and they haven't - ever!) and can't use a kid (Denard) to his fullest abilities any better than they have, then how the hell are they ever going to get anything out of "their" kids?

Denard set himself up for all of these records before Hoke and Borgess got ahold of him.

Yes, I understand the line is important. Yes I understand there are some dropped balls.  Yes, I understand that they play with injuries......sorry, what's the coaches next excuse?

This isn't junior high or high school...duh...there are big salaries with big expectations here.  Although the talent level may not be comparitave to other schools at this time, there is absolutely no reason for this lack of offensive production other than gameplanning. 

I've been making fun of the buckeye fans since the start of the season for their lack of formidable opponets at the beginning of the year....and now....I wonder if we could outscore any of them.

We're all armchair coaches, but, we're not being paid what they are and don't have the day in and day out experience that they have.

They're supposed to be able to figure this out.....FORGODSAKES!

Hugh Jass

October 28th, 2012 at 4:34 PM ^

ending....we lost a night game in a hostile environment with our true offensive playmaker getting hurt and you are talking about firing people.  Are we Michigan Staee?  Move on - you may be putting too much time into football viewing

ijohnb

October 28th, 2012 at 4:43 PM ^

Michigan State, Nebraska, 00000 visits to the endzone.  Denard got hurt end of second quarter last night, and we had torched the scoreboard for 3 points.  Ohio State scored over 60 points against Nebraksa, 60!!  The Huskers are not exactly the 84 Bears here. 

Come on, you can't be that dismissive. 

CompleteLunacy

October 28th, 2012 at 4:58 PM ^

Come on, you can't be so overreactive. MSU was a very good defense, and our O flat out did not execute to their ability...thus no TDs. Remember that time we won the game anyway?

As for last night...Denard would have had a 1st and goal if he wasn't injured, and M had starting moving the ball actually pretty well by that point. As for not getting a TD after that...well, I'm not sure how much blame you can give to Borges when he's working with a QB who couldn't hit an out, a slant, a deep throw, or much of anything against a very competent secondary, coupled with a surprisingly ineffective run game.

I'm not saying Borges deserves no blame...but the whole overreacting "hot seat" thing drives me nuts. 

scorpz79goblue

October 29th, 2012 at 8:35 AM ^

true to that statement,it is foolish to throw him out this early, but can not accept dumb play calling that i have witnessed from back to back games,hell im not only person who thought this ,yes denard was making some decent plays before he got injured,still before he left borgess called 3..3 run plays in a row expectin what? a denard breakthrough,maybye ,i sure of hell didnt have alotta faith when he handed off to toussaint, who i might add has done nothing but hit bricks every game he has played this year,then an option on a third down?...do u see why we are gettin a lil bit fussy, a lil bit nervous, its been the coaching of borgess that called alotta bone head plays that made no sense,as ive said now and ill say till the end its the coach responsibility to have his offense prepared,look what mattison has done on d,yes im frustrated with borgess ,and hope he can pull it back together,if not then reality has to come to light and hoke might have to make that call,not just for team sake ,for his as well,again it is too early to justify firing ,but cant keep this up also,sorry unaccetable,and to make a remark like he has a player like robinson that doesnt fit his style,,haha,what a joke,thats like saying bulls couldnt coach jordan almost,because he was diffrent,he is a offense cordinator i think he be happy having him to do all kind of things, again no not all borgess, but cannot ignore his role,and that is to produce and pull talent frm his crew, and so far its only been gibbons, even hoke wich i believe is a good coach,seems like a good fit here,has also baffled me with some of his moves , prime ex;toussaint hasnt produced to lighten load for robinson yet this season, yet rawls when he played against purdue came away with good gains and looked like he had passion in his running,yet hoke failed and still has failed to pull him for at least a couple of downs a serires or 2 to give rawls a decent chance at trying to help,even watching his interviews after some key loss,even a win wich rawl did better than toussaint hoke has said and blamed the line for his poor performence all season wich is crap because ive seen all gam es and most where horrible attempts,that not a kinda thing we need to start making excuses,he shoulda pulled him at least 2 games ago and gave rawls more oppurtinity,would it have worked cant say, might if was evr given more opp,so i guess we will run toussaint again,then wait for some other excuse than saying we need to explore all options,espically when his play has been this bad,but i am a wolverine fan regardless,and hope the best for this staff,but something needs to be adressed here with these serious issues, cause we still have hopes to finish strong,no one is perfect we make mistakes,but we have to take our mistakes seriously,and learn frm them

coldnjl

October 28th, 2012 at 5:02 PM ^

I think we can. OSU has a dynamic offense and UN has a very good defense (I think there are top 10 against the pass). We were more than in the game, and actually owned the TOP through Denards injury. We just missed the Big play. Our unit for some reason isn't as good as last year, whether it is due to the OL or Fitz. Our WRs are dropping passes that hit them in the hands. Lets be patient and let them get the players and experience needed to really run their targeted offensive scheme before we start talking about hot seats. 

Leonhall

October 28th, 2012 at 10:00 PM ^

If you are going to compare how Ohio did against Nebraska compared to us then I 'll compare how Ohio did against Purdue at home with how we did against Purdue...how teams did against other teams means absolutely nothing.

ijohnb

October 28th, 2012 at 4:46 PM ^

never made sense.  There was no indication that Will believed what had happened with him to be his fault.  No doubt he had been scarred, but there was no evidence of any kind that he was blaming himself for what had transpired.  An "oscar grab" scene that never really rang true.  Good performances, but it rang a little false to me.

woomba

October 28th, 2012 at 4:35 PM ^

I doubt Borges' seat will be that hot for another few years - he's not running the offense that he was brought on to do due to Denard's skillset and it won't be until he has proven his ability/inability to  develop a pro-based attack in a few years that we will seriously be having this discussion.