Home Court Reffing

Submitted by bouje on January 26th, 2010 at 9:22 PM

So when we get jobbed on the road at Wisconsin people say "well it's because Big Ten refs are always going to side with the home court and the home court team will always win with the refs".

Where is this shit when we are home? What iffy iffy calls went our way? We get an elbow to the face but because our guy isn't a pussy and he doesn't get struck in the nose he's not bleeding all over. We have Sims clearly intentionally fouled and then clearly held before the ball even gets to him.

Yes I know we shot terribly (yet we shot better than them from 3), OReb were 6-9 in favor of Sparty, FTs were a + for us and TOs Michigan dominated.

If you look at the 4 factors it was obviously a very close game but with our domination of the TOs we should have won.

Whether you want to call it that MSU and UW are "grittier, better, more tournament savvy" teams that's bs. It's because they are big name schools that gets the benefit of the doubt from the officials over lesser schools.

That's just the way it is until we get back up to that level.

Comments

jonny_GoBlue

January 27th, 2010 at 11:19 AM ^

2 referees on the floor, to be honest.

A 3rd referee would have had a perfect view of the jersey grab on the last play.

Not that he necessarily would have called it, but at least he would have seen it.

bouje

January 26th, 2010 at 9:28 PM ^

I have no idea WTF you were watching. Sims' arm was held, his jersey was being pulled and he barely got 2 hand on the ball. That is a call at UW, MSU, OSU, any of the "big" schools.

BBall officiating is the most bs and subjective crap in the world. This is part of the reason why I hate watching basketball because of the complete difference of treatment of teams.

JT4104

January 26th, 2010 at 10:32 PM ^

MSU did not get that call when they lost their hoome win streak to Wiscy in 2003....hence the reason Torbert got that shot off late...

Reality is no official in his right mind makes that call unless Summers doesn't allow Sims to jump at all.

Everyone always preaches let players win/lose the game. Tonight Sims didn't make the play. End of story....

Sorry Bouje, in all honesty you are coming off real whiny about a game that had a lot of non-calls throughout for both teams. If your not gonna call them at the 5 min mark, you sure as heck dont call them at the 1.5 sec mark!

bouje

January 26th, 2010 at 10:43 PM ^

and then there is what happened with Sims. He had his arm and his jersey. I understand that they had been letting them play but that is what is wrong with College Basketball and the NBA in general. Star players/Teams get all of the calls especially at home and the lesser teams get the fucking shaft.

We saw it at the Kohl Center and we saw it tonight at Michigan.

SDCran

January 27th, 2010 at 2:44 AM ^

...Torbert got the shot off late because he caught the ball with under .3 seconds left. Much like tonight, great play call, player just missed it in the end.

I don't know about the rest of you. I thought tonight was the least physical UM-MSU game in a while. I always complain that MSU games are allowed to be played too physically. Tonight, there were very few plays through the game I was upset about, and there weren't many fouls called. (although I was pissed off twice when Peedi went up with a player waaaayyyy below vertical over top of him while he jumped....and once when they called exactly that on Peedi)

maizenbluedevil

January 26th, 2010 at 9:26 PM ^

As you stated, we shot terribly.

As others stated elsewhere, in a physical game, those kinds of fouls won't get called and shouldn't be.

Period, that's it. Blaming the refs is a cop-out.

Despite shooting horribly, the guys fought hard tonight and came 1 point shy of beating the #5 team nationally. The students were loud, it sounded like the atmosphere there was great. The program is headed in the right direction.

maizenbluedevil

January 26th, 2010 at 9:35 PM ^

Just for the record I wasn't inferring that's what you had said... the "program heading in the right direction" comment I made was just that, yes, this was a heartbreaking loss, but, there were also a lot of positives tonight... all of which are signs the program is headed in the right direction overall. As it continues to do so, these types of games will start to go our way more often.

bouje

January 26th, 2010 at 11:12 PM ^

Michigan got to the line more +1
Michigan lost the O Rebounding 6-9 -1
Michigan won the TO battle 18-4! +1?
Michigan lost the shooting battle (Which is also why they lost the rebounding column, it's no coincidence that MSU got 16 more rebounds when we laid up bricks so often).

The 4 factors again come out even but again we get jobbed near the end of the game at home instead of at Wisco.

Can you please tell me where my logic is faulty?

Stewart52

January 27th, 2010 at 2:47 AM ^

Their turnovers were completely mitigated by the fact they got so many defensive rebounds. One team had the ball, something happened, and then the other team got the ball. Whether it's a missed shot and defensive rebound or a turnover or a "factor of winning." The bottom line is MSU got the ball from Michigan without them scoring by defensive rebound +16 times. Michigan got the ball from MSU without them scoring by turnovers +14 times. Edge: MSU. You shouldn't look too much into some scale someone made up (Idk if Dylan made it or not); it's a tool not the end-all-be-all.

Stewart52

January 27th, 2010 at 9:40 AM ^

how many fast break points did we have that game? I can think of 6 (Morris, DeShawn, and Manny scored layups) off the top of my head, and thats about it. It looked to me like nearly all our steals we just came down with the ball and walked it up the court, which would make it equivalent to a defensive rebound.

That aside, though, I was more trying to say that it's not like if you win those "4 factors" you automatically win the game and use a possible tradeoff of turnovers and defensive rebounds as a reason why.

ming

January 27th, 2010 at 3:54 AM ^

50% of the home team's shots were from beyond the arc while the visitor shot less than 25% of their shots from 3 point land. Yet the visitor got called for more fouls than the home team and the home team shot more FTs than visitor.

Most people knowledgeable in basketball would say the visiting team was "homered" based on these numbers.

Truth be told neither team garnered an advantage from the referees as it was clear from tip off that the refs were going to let them play... especially after one of the referees left the game.

As for the tugging jersey foul...

1. Only a small percentage of "jersey tugs" are ever called, even during a tightly called game.
2. This was a loosely called game.
3. There were 1.5 seconds left when the tug occurred.

Bitching about the lack a seldomly called foul in a loosely called game in the last 1.5 seconds of a 1pt game is dumb. Period.

m83econ

January 26th, 2010 at 9:29 PM ^

and not the other. When you got your hands on the shorts of a player moving toward the basket with the ball, why shouldn't it have been intentional?

JT4104

January 26th, 2010 at 10:36 PM ^

Watch the play and take the homer glasses off..

Green clearly reached in with his left hand at all ball and as Sims went through the right arm came around..

The fact that they got .6 back on the clock should be fair enough seeing as how the official who made the call arm came up at the .9 mark anyways.

Before anyone says I'm wrong, the clock stops when that hand comes up. That was a gift that everyone seems to be avoiding to talk about right now!

jmblue

January 26th, 2010 at 10:43 PM ^

I'm not worked up about it because it's never, ever called intentional in that situation, but it looked to me like he just slapped him around the waist (and Steve Lavin, who isn't a UM homer as far as anyone knows, seemed to think the same).

FWIW, I think the intentional foul rule is dumb and should be replaced with a flagrant foul rule. It obviously was intended for flagrant situations, not ones like this one.

jmblue

January 26th, 2010 at 10:49 PM ^

I'm not worked up about it because it's never, ever called intentional in that situation, but it looked to me like he just slapped him around the waist (and Steve Lavin, who isn't a UM homer as far as anyone knows, seemed to think the same).

FWIW, I think the intentional foul rule is dumb and should be replaced with a flagrant foul rule. It obviously was intended for flagrant situations, not ones like this one.

might and main

January 26th, 2010 at 10:50 PM ^

There's a lot of ways to see this game. Not getting the call at the end is redunculous. But I'm impressed with how we played. We were solid, against a really damn good team with one of the best coaches in the country. One more play and we win. They made the last play, and got the call.

bronxblue

January 26th, 2010 at 9:52 PM ^

UM lost because they couldn't hit shots down the stretch. This is how MSU wins games - I saw it for 3 years while I was there, and it has been the theme since Izzo took over. Keep it close, play tough defense, rebound, and don't panic down the stretch. UM played its collective butt off today, but in a close game they threw up airballs and forced the issue while MSU just plugged along. It will take a couple more years, but soon enough Coach B will have players that understand his system and make the right calls toward the end of the game. Right now, UM is still pretty inexperienced with closing out games like this, and it showed. Hats off to MSU for winning a tough game on the road, and hopefully UM learns from this.

wooderson

January 26th, 2010 at 10:18 PM ^

Honestly I thought overall we got the better of the calls slightly. We were really bumping their guards on their drives and it rarely got called.

A little frustrating that Manny got thrown out last year for the same thing that Lucas did today, and apparently according to the rules Lucas should have been tossed. It was clearly inadvertent though so think it's the right call not to throw somebody out for that. Just makes what happened to Manny that much more frustrating.

The grab at the end will never, ever be called. Great play call by Beilein though and executed perfectly by Douglass on the pass. Just bad luck it didn't go in (what else is new?)

Bottom line: If Michigan had brought the same amount of heart in all our bad losses that we did against MSU, UCONN and Kansas we would be in great position to make the tournament.

MaizeyBlue

January 27th, 2010 at 12:31 AM ^

Well besides the two airballs, don't forget Summers (I think) bricked a 3-pointer and we were out muscled for the rebound at the end of the game too... Its just too bad we had to lose that one...

It's also bad because I made a bet this year with a msu grad that if one of our teams sweeps the other a profile picture on facebook has to go up stating that the other team is the best team in the state. Now I'm left hoping be break a what, 16 year drought in EL? YIKES!

chitownblue2

January 27th, 2010 at 8:43 AM ^

Honestly, I don't have a problem with no whistle on that. Refs in the NCAA or NBA will go to every extent possible to not put a guy on the line with a second left - the only time you see it done is when someone gets their head taken off at the rim or floored on a jumper. That was the sort of call that gets whistled with 10 minutes left, not a second, at any level of basketball - and if you think otherwise, you don't watch much basketball. I'm not saying it wasn't a foul, and I'm not saying I like it - but you will see refs consistently not make that call on a near unanimous basis.

Also - I'm not even sure that would have been a shooting foul - the the guy had lost contact with Sims by the time he received the ball.