January 7th, 2016 at 12:37 PM ^

In fairness, a similar thing happened to Harbaugh on the second-to-last play of the Minnesota game, the one on which Leidner ended up wasting ten seconds while he changed the play and eventually threw an incomplete pass in the face of a blitz that his line failed to pick up. Harbaugh raced down the sideline and frantically tried to call a timeout when the offense started shifting, but the refs didn't notice him. Good thing they didn't, because that whole thing blew up in Minnesota's face.

Space Coyote

January 7th, 2016 at 12:36 PM ^

Was a moderately successful head coach at various parts of his career at three different spots. Also took over defensive play calling his last year at Ball St and drastically improved that sid of the ball.

Yes, the same repetitive and I creative jokes that have been tossed around hundreds or thousands of times the past year are great and all, but they also aren't accurate. But continue doing it, it's really great


January 7th, 2016 at 1:22 PM ^

Thank God, Space Coyote. The "rip on Hoke" jokes have become such low hanging fruit yet far too many people join in. Was Brady Hoke a successful head coach at Michigan? No, he wasn't. But that's doesn't mean he's awful at everything. He was a damn good DL coach for us for a long time, and his defenses here were good if not great every year he was the HC. Is it so hard for Michigan fans to give Hoke the slightest bit of credit where it's deserved?


January 7th, 2016 at 2:33 PM ^

"Not when he was our DL coach on a team that won a fucking national championship."  

Of course.  DL coaches don't have coordinators.  They report to a coordinator. 

And you can't take all credit for the defense's success away from him because he had a coordinator. Chip Kelly had an OC too, do we not give him any credit for Oregon's offense?

First, I haven't taken all the credit away from him.  I'd give him a lot of credit for hiring Mattison.  Second, the comparison here is a poor one: Kelly was an OC for 7 years at New Hampshire and 2 years at Oregon; Hoke was a DC never.  


January 7th, 2016 at 2:58 PM ^

Hoke was a DC never.  

Incorrect, his first stop was as a defensive coordinator.  In addition to that, during several different seasons at Ball State (including the one where BSU started off 12-0) he called the defensive plays.

I'd give him a lot of credit for hiring Mattison.

You clearly haven't done much research on him.  Did you know he coached for Harbaugh Sr. along side John and Mattison at Western?  What about his stop as linebacker coach in Toledo?


Do some research before you make asinine claims



January 7th, 2016 at 3:28 PM ^

1) You're talking about his coaching in high school?  No I didn't consider that.  I wouldn't imagine many would.  High school DC doesn't really come into a discussion re. Power 5 coaching jobs. 

2) You're not refuting any point I'm making.  I did not disparage any of his prior experience. 

The claim I'm making is that he hasn't coached a defense as the defensive coordinator.  This is true.  Calling people asinine in a reasoned discussion makes you and your argument appear weak. 


Hoke defenders as defensive as those who do the same for RR.  I root for Hoke, I always will, just as I do for RR.  I've met both.  They gave everything they had.  But they both failed, and I'm glad neither is coach at Michigan.  

My pointing out that he has never been a DC (with the exception of Yorktown, Indiana High) does not mean I'm belittling the man.  I'm stating a truth that's relevant to the topic of him taking over DC at Oregon.  Your overreaction is an indication that you probably went all-in on Hoke, and having a difficult time accepting his failure.  I did the former as well, but I'm long past the latter. 


January 7th, 2016 at 6:23 PM ^

  Your overreaction is an indication that you probably went all-in on Hoke,

100% fact.

 and having a difficult time accepting his failure. 

I have, at this pint, accepted his failure.  Because of personal reasons, often I still take offense to those who would seek to disparage him.  I have to bite my (figurative) tongue everytime I see Brian make a remark about Hoke's perceived lack of coaching ability.  It is pretty easy for me to place the majority of the blame relating to Brady Hoke's failures as head coach at Michigan on Dave Brandon, and since my opinion matters not, I really don't think there's much downside.

Your initial comment was "He never coached the defense", which is absolutely incorrect.  You have since changed your argument to better fit the reality, and I am okay with that.

Regarding whether or not he ever had the official title of "Defensive Coordinator", well, I can agree with you that he has not.  But this is far and away from the inital statemnt of "He never coached the defense."

Anyways, I suggest we move on, I have been down the defending Brady Hoke path plenty of times, and regardless of whether I think he would have ultimately worked out here or not, the current result is a stellar defense, a lot of high quality (albeit somewhat raw) talent, and Jim Harbaugh as the head coach.

I want to add that I have always respected you as a poster, and am not looking to continue the back and forth, rather, I am interested in trying to explain where I am coming from.


January 8th, 2016 at 11:00 AM ^

I'd rather not have a negative back and forth as well, but a meaningful one is always appreciated.  I don't think it's unreasonable to define DC as running the defense.  I've perhaps naively assumed everyone has that same view.  As an extreme example, RR was a head coach, apparently had almost no involvement with the Defense (except meddling/demaning 3-3-5).  Would his head coaching experience qualify him for a Power 5 DC spot?  I don't think so.  By that logic, I'd say just by virtue of being a head coach, one is not qualified to be a DC. 

Yes Hoke is different, he did an excellent job here on the DL and he has experience in various defensive positions over his career.  But that's different than being a DC, and "coaching the defense", which gameplanning and playcalling. 

Again I wasn't trying to disparage Hoke.  He was my guy for a long time as well.  

snarling wolverine

January 7th, 2016 at 3:05 PM ^

This is true, but the fact remains he never had responsbility for the defense.

As head coach, wasn't he responsible for the entire team? I don't understand how people can argue that he's qualified to be a head coach but not a defensive coordinator.  Do you think he had no input in our defensive gameplans?


January 7th, 2016 at 2:56 PM ^

People are missing an important point - most coordinators are promoted from the positional ranks.  There aren't that many accomplished coordinators who want to make lateral moves.  They go on to be head coaches.  

By any reasonable standard, Hoke is qualified to take a DC job.  Besides his positional duties, he likely was strongly involved in defensive gameplanning when he was a head coach.  






January 7th, 2016 at 11:37 AM ^

Good thing they have dynamic offenses.  The cultural fit between old school Hoke and Oregon is about as good as the RR hire at Michigan, though.  


January 7th, 2016 at 11:57 AM ^

When asked recently about the influence of Oregon’s offense, Hoke subtly revealed his disdain for the tactical shift Michigan experienced under Rodriguez. He is convinced that modern spread option offenses can be counterproductive to the core values of smashmouth football and are, therefore, to be avoided.

“Right, wrong or indifferent, when you’re zone blocking all the time -- when you’re playing basketball on grass -- you practice against that all spring, you practice against it all fall and then you’re going to play a two-back team that wants to knock you off the football,” Hoke said. “I don’t think you’re prepared."