Have hockey season tickets in the student section next year?

Submitted by CleverMichigan… on April 14th, 2011 at 4:38 PM

If you will be sitting in the student section at Yost next year, please take the following survey regarding becoming a recognized student organization if you haven't already: http://bit.ly/gXwRa2

More information, including obvious pros/cons, is listed on the survey:

Recently, the Maize Rage contacted the curators of the @childrenofyost twitter encouraging us to register as an official student organization and get a table next to them at Festifall. We know that we cannot make this decision on our own, and would like your input.

Foreseen pros:

Possibility of University funded trips to away games, tournaments, meetings with free food, etc.

Possibility of accessibility to hockey practices (Maize Rage has had the above opportunities with basketball in the past)

Foreseen cons/issues:

We may need to "clean up our act" to enjoy the benefits of a recognized student group

We would have to be much more organized: electing a governing body, etc. We would ALL have to be much more involved (we're looking at you, sections not named 16 or 17).

Registering as a student group was previously attempted unsuccessfully about 2 years ago.

Please email [email protected] before voting if you have any questions.

Please vote if you are eligible, but even if you aren't feel free to add your opinion below. 

EDIT: If you're going to try to vote as a hockey player, maybe try one who's not graduating. If you are Carl, sorry Carl, you're technically not eligible to vote but we appreciate your opinion nonetheless!

Comments

Jskohl88

April 14th, 2011 at 4:55 PM ^

As cool as it would be to get the benefits from being an organized student group, there is something about the "organized chaos" that is the Yost student section. The benefits are great, I guess it would depend on how enforceable the "clean up our act" part would be. Would it really be worth it to scrap or at least clean up the see ya cheer? NO. 

Also, a great point about sections not named 16 or 17. I remember my freshman year (2006-07) when the maize rage was nothing more than a few rows. It was sad. Real sad. While hockey is nowhere near that sad, and the upward trend of the basketball crowd is encouraging, I would focus hard on how enforceable the cleaning things up would be. Practices would be sweet, but traveling to away games and tournaments isn't THAT hard, at least the tickets part certainly isn't, so think long and hard about whether it's worth it.

Just my two cents

Seth9

April 14th, 2011 at 5:25 PM ^

There is no way in hell that there will be significant student cooperation in cleaning up the chants used at Yost. If a student group was formed with the expectation that it would cooperate with cleaning up things like the penalty cheer, it would have no legitimacy and get no membership. Therefore, there's no reason not to try to form a student group because it will be a non-starter if it requires that cheers be cleaned up and it could be a boon to students otherwise when it comes to arranging things like trips to road games/NCAA regionals. Thus, it has no real potential downside and plenty of potential upside.

BeileinBuddy

April 14th, 2011 at 5:16 PM ^

If U-M was staying in the CCHA, then the monetary support for away games wouldn't be totally necessary, but once the B1G is up and running, crucial late season trips to Madison, Minneapolis, or State College might become a bit of a hassle.

Wolverine318

April 14th, 2011 at 5:45 PM ^

One of their pros is already available even if without registering as a student group. All hockey practices are open to the public. All you need to do is walk onto Yost. I tried pointing this out to them over twitter this morning but I guess they ignored my reply.
<br>
<br>I voted against registering. I kinda like being a rogue group.

BrownJuggernaut

April 14th, 2011 at 11:55 PM ^

Thanks for the shout out.

Responding to all the posts in this thread, I feel the key issue here is travel and how we can improve turnout. Clearly, most of us want to keep Yost the same. We were voted best student section; there's a lot of things we're doing right.

I will agree that perhaps we need to find a better way of distributing the fans. I'm personally one of those people who wants to watch the game and watch us win. I do think sections 16 and 17 are louder, but that's because everyone ventures there. They are the most packed sections. If we had evenly distributed sections, I don't think people would be complaining about turnout.

As far as travel goes, what can we do? If we go to the University, there's a high likelihood that we will have to curb a lot of the things that make Yost an intimidating environment. Would it help turnout? Yes. However, I think the bigger problem might lie with actually getting groups together to go to the away games.

May be you want to go to the away game, but you don't know anyone.  Are you going to go by yourself? Probably not. This is where organization (email list, Facebook) would come in handy. You can easily create events on Facebook and have people who want to go go to these games with new friends. It'll also foster new friendships which I am 100% behind.

For CCHA games, this can be easy. It'll be harder come B1G games where going everywhere besides State and OSU is somewhat of a hike. It's also a problem for NCAAs as well. I didn't think Fort Wayne was bad last year. Both trips this year seemed like sort of a hike (kudos to all those that went). I only know a few kids in the student section, so I didn't have a lot of options in terms of getting to these events anyway. I definitely think some sort of organization would help in this regard.

I just don't think the sacrifices that might have to be made would be worth it. If we concede the CYA chant, people will probably still do it. Us conceding the CYA chant gives the administration more right to make sure that security can enforce whatever rules we have to abide by. Additionally, if we concede the CYA chant (again only using it because it's probably the most prominent of our chants) and we keep doing it, if we have to negotiate in the future, the administration has something to hold against us because we didn't keep our word.

I think it's good to bring this up just to get the discussion going and getting everyone on the same page. Kudos (M&M variety) to the people who are in charge of the Children of Yost account for taking charge of this.

Seth9

April 15th, 2011 at 1:23 AM ^

1. I doubt that any of the pro-student group people (such as myself) are willing to give up the CYA chant. If that is a precondition of getting University support, then the group probably wouldn't get formed.

2. If someone formed a Children of Yost student group with the understanding that it would involve removing the CYA chant, pretty much nobody would join it and the group would become a non-entity.

3. Previous attempts by the AD to kill of the CYA chant or parts of the CYA chant have been unsuccessful. They likely know by now that they will not be able to surpress it. As such, they may be amenable to a compromise that both the student section and administration can live with.

4. The power that the university would have over a Children of Yost student group is the ability to decertify the group and remove university support. This would result in what is now the status quo. Thus, if the university ever made demands that we couldn't live with, we'd simply disband. This means that there is no effective downside to attempting to form a group.

Bando Calrissian

April 14th, 2011 at 6:20 PM ^

One of the greatest things about the Yost experience is that there has -never- been any organization to it.  You go your freshman year, you spend a few weekends learning the cheers, and that's it.  You don't need a flier put on your seat, you don't need emails you never read from people who want to tell you new things to do, you don't get some marketing person from the university pestering you about this or that.  

Yost is Yost, it's spontaneous, it's unorganized, it's loose, and it doesn't need a hierarchy.  Or University recognition.  Because the second the group has a chairperson, the moment it has -someone- that can be hauled in front of a board or a camera or a newspaper to explain what did or didn't happen, the first time the University has something they can hold over a recognized, organized student section, it's already too late.  You've killed the Maize Goose.

I respect what these kids are doing, but even putting a name on the thing was too much organization for the student section, IMO. 

CleverMichigan…

April 14th, 2011 at 6:56 PM ^

....UMx, did you even read the OP? Maize Rage (the official basketball student section) were the ones who first suggested it. 

And Bando, if a group could be run as Seth mentioned, I could see benefits far outweighing cons. No one mentioned anything about signs on chairs, a president, or half the stuff you mentioned. "This kid" is tired of being one of FIVE at regionals, one of a few dozen students at the Frozen Four, etc. Hell, WMU had a debatebly better showing than us at the Joe. We don't need to change anything at home, but the traveling definitely needs improvement. Do we really need a group to organize bus trips? I don't know.  

Bando Calrissian

April 14th, 2011 at 7:23 PM ^

You know why there's only been five students at regionals?  Because Michigan keeps getting sent to places that are in the middle of nowhere, with expensive flights, 10-hour drives, expensive tickets, AND it always tends to occur at a bad part of the semester.  The last time Michigan had a decent regional location was Grand Rapids in '03-04, and that was the end of a stretch where Yost was a regional location on a somewhat regular basis.

And if kids can't find a way to get to the Joe without a student organization, that's on them.  It's a 40-minute drive.  I went to, what, 5 away games my senior year with a really great group of friends.  It's really not that difficult to do if you actually know how to look at a calendar, pull up an opposing athletic department website, and order some tickets.  

And, yes, if you're a registered student organization, there are specific steps and leadership standards that need to be provided.  University bureaucracy at its finest.  That means officers, meetings, etc.  The last thing I think of when I think of the Yost student section is a mass meeting, kids having to deal with SOAS or whatever it's called, and all that crap.

The Maize Rage came out of a need to create a student following for a struggling program.  To aspire to get to where Yost has been for 20 years.  No need to be like them just because they think it's a good idea (and based on my experience with the Maize Rage, had student tickets all four years, you don't want to steal ideas from those kids).

farside286

April 14th, 2011 at 7:33 PM ^

your complaing about 10 hour drives.  Hell I made the drive to St. Louis for the regional final day of and came back the next day.   Wasn't too hard, I missed no class.  I booked everything the night before in less than an hour. 

 

We really just need a find a way to motivate the rest of the students.

3FrenchToast

April 14th, 2011 at 7:38 PM ^

But, on the bright side, forming a cohesive student section could be a path to political leadership!

I think your last point is crucial here, and that it's important to remember what the state of each program currently is. Maize Rage are doing quite well, but when you start going to the NCAA tourney after a decade out (and how), that incentivizes people to get involved. No, it shouldn't work that way, and yes, I stayed to the end of Northwestern 2008 (my last undergrad home game), but the resurgence of student support for basketball has to be linked to the team's performance. And while the Maize Rage aren't perfect, it's heartening to finally see some student presence, especially while watching on TV.

I will add, though, that the student section at Yost continues to impress me. I bounced around a bit this season, but the students seem to be twice or thrice as many as my first season (2004) and the involvement is awesome.

And one more thought about Western's presence at the Joe...they were coming off of a huge tournament drought and one of their best seasons in years (ever?), and with the drive being reasonable it makes a lot of sense. I was there both days this year, but unfortunately I think it's easier for us to get used to playing at the Joe and thus can't get as organized as a fan base. I was, however, disappointed at the student turnout, though I thought the NCAA regionals in Fort Wayne fairly well attended for being a bit of a drive.

CleverMichigan…

April 14th, 2011 at 7:38 PM ^

  1. UNO had a longer drive than us. NoDak had a longer drive than us. The "we're too busy to travel" thing is totally pathetic on our part. I'm a junior in aerospace, and the friends I drove out to St. Paul on a Wednesday night with are seniors in engineering. Our academic schedules are as shitty as they come. 
  2. Your first paragraph is pretty much reinforcing my previous point that our traveling is pathetic. There are obvious reasons for it, but the fact remains that cost and distance are a burden to our students, and the University could help with the cost. 
  3. I think you're missing the point where I'm really not crazy about this either, I'm just presenting both sides and sending out a survey because it's not my place to decide something on behalf of that whole group of people. SCS can attest to the ridiculous drunk reply I sent to the Maize Rage prez on the subject.
  4. As I said in that drunk email, I'm involved in the greek system. So yes, I know EXACTLY the cost of affliation, and exactly how much the University will hold things over your head and the bureaucracy associated with it. 

SCS100

April 14th, 2011 at 8:58 PM ^

I will attest to said drunkenness. For the record, we know full well that copying from the Maize Rage might not be the best idea, but we figured we'd explore the idea and see what the rest of the section thinks. The small group of us in 17 and the three of us controlling the twitter account should not be speaking for the entire section, hence the poll.

Bando Calrissian

April 14th, 2011 at 8:14 PM ^

1.  NoDak hockey fans are pretty much the exception to every rule.  (Hostile Mascot) hockey is all they have.  No pro teams, no other D-1 programs, and they have a dominant program to follow.  It's the perfect storm.  While our programs are similar in on-ice success, the rest of the picture is in no way comparable.  

As per distance, on Google Maps, the drive to St. Louis from Omaha is 7 and change, the drive from Ann Arbor 9.  Grand Forks to Minny is 5 and change.  So, your argument doesn't hold there.  

And it's not like every other team in the regional packs the house and makes us look bad.  Pretty much every year, unless the regional host school makes the tournament and gets placed in their own back yard, those rinks aren't even close to half full for the first sessions, and almost completely empty for the regional final when the losing team fans bolt.  So you can't point to regional attendance and say Michigan isn't doing as well as other schools, when the reality is the way the NCAA has reconfigured the tournament after the elimination of both Super Regionals and most/all campus rinks has pretty much tanked chances of any of the regionals having decent attendance across the board.

2.  The University helping with costs (if they're even interested in doing so) means you owe the University something.  My experience with administration with hockey student section issues always ended up at the same impasse:  "We'd love to do these things for you, but (insert permutation of compromise on cheers)."  

3.  Yeah, I get it.  Don't know what email you're talking about, but OK.

4.  It's really quite ridiculous how many hoops student org's have to jump through.  

Like I said, I appreciate what the kids are doing, but I don't think incorporating the student section with the University is 1. the way to fix the things in the "con" column, or 2. appropriate for the identity of Yost.

Seth9

April 14th, 2011 at 9:42 PM ^

1. We are the most storied and successful NCAA hockey program and we have a large student population and student section. We should strive to have more fans at neutral regionals than other teams, rather than strive to avoid embarrassment.

2. There is no harm in trying to form a group and negotiate. The worse that can happen is that we can't make a deal that is amenable to the university and preserves the culture of Yost.

3. ...

4. ...

There is no reason that we would have to organize our group in the model of the Maize Rage and there is no way that a student group would even be capable of shutting down things like the penalty chant. The primary idea here is to organize the student section in a manner that would allow for easier travel to road and neutral site games, as well as to more heavily concentrate Michigan students at other venues. It would also be a useful resource for things like selling tickets for games people will be out of town for, coordinating car pools, and generally providing Michigan student season ticket holders with a network of other Michigan hockey fans to coordinate activities with. This does not mean that we would attempt to change the culture at Yost itself, which would probably be counterproductive.

Seth9

April 14th, 2011 at 11:26 PM ^

It could even be done via Facebook if that group were more active.

Exactly...

The FB group is not very active because a) it has no recognizeable legitimacy and b) most new fans do not join the FB group. A well-run student organization provides a more easily sustainable network.

Also, financial support from the university could be used to help do things with regard to transportation to major events (maybe buses or something). It would also come in handy when we switch over to the BTHC, at which point we would begin to have more distant conference road games.

Overall, attendence to games outside of Yost by Michigan students has been poor. We were pretty heavily outnumbered by Western fans at the Joe this year. We had somewhere around 10 students at the NCAA regionals (not counting the band, obviously). And attendance at St. Paul wasn't exactly high on our end. This is a problem and forming a student group could help fix it.

goblue7612

April 15th, 2011 at 12:04 AM ^

What would forming a student group accomplish in getting students out to the tournament games? They wouldn't provide us with free room or board, tickets, or transportation.

Bando Calrissian

April 14th, 2011 at 7:26 PM ^

And if you want everyone to get involved, and not just sections 16 or 17, you need to figure out a way to get the University to put the student section back together, instead of being broken into two by the blocks of non-student seats behind the benches.

It's been attempted before, but it's apparently their way of trying to gain leverage against the cheers, specifically CYA, so good luck.  Sat through a few meetings with AD folks about that one when I was in school.  We got nowhere.

goblue7612

April 14th, 2011 at 8:17 PM ^

It's not divided into two groups. There are at most three rows of nonstudent seats behind the benches. The problem is that everyone has decided that section 16 and 17 are the "cool" place to be since it's by the band, so everyone who wants to be loud and obnoxious/annoying move over there. The people behind the bench are generally longer term student season ticket holders who no longer have the burning desire to be absolutely as obnoxious as possible (which isn't a bad thing). If you watched carefully, the only students that weren't dancing were the students behind the benches, generally the seniors who have been there done that and are more concerned with watching hockey than dancing.

Bando Calrissian

April 14th, 2011 at 8:30 PM ^

A lot of good those three rows that are pretty much hidden underneath the overhang do.  The point is that the student section used to be a contiguous block of seats, with the only break being the two or three rows for opposing parents, until the Athletic Department made a specific and calculated decision to all but split it in half in hopes it would tone down the cheers.  It was never the same after that.

Wolverine318

April 14th, 2011 at 9:32 PM ^

Agreed. I am one of those longer term season ticket holders behind the Michigan bench, but I sit in section 17. 

However, I disagree with your assertion that long term student ticket holders are the only ones that care about hockey. You will be hard pressed to find those that watch hockey more closely than my friends and I section 17. Many of us went to St. Louis and to St. Paul (I didn't go, but if I didn't have to teach my chem 130 section, I would have been there in a heart beat) . Just because we dance and have a giant swedish flag doesn't negate our interest in actual hockey one bit. 

kmd

April 15th, 2011 at 1:42 AM ^

The athletic department always has the first 3 rows behind the bench completely blocked off for family of the players, but they also keep some tickets in the 4th and 5th rows for recruits, student-athletes, coaches, etc. Add in the fact that you already lose 3-4 rows for the bench, and the fact that the upper few rows are generally empty because the overhang blocks the scoreboard (except for big games, like MSU), and you don't have much of a middle left.

goblue7612

April 14th, 2011 at 8:23 PM ^

I think this is a very worthwhile discussion to have. And I'm glad that our inputs are being solicited prior to a decision. However, I do agree with a few of the posters that one of the charms of Yost is its spontaneity. For example the first time the spelling chant was done, very clever and amusing. The 80th time it was done...not so much. The first time the entire student section did the blues brother dance, awesome...the 150th time...not so much. I think having a university affiliated student group would make things a lot more regimented with section leaders and such like the Maize Rage has. I have nothing against the Maize Rage, but there is no reason to emulate them.

I also agree that getting more students out to our away games and tournament games is very important. As another of the 7 students that was out in St. Louis, I can admit that that turnout was very disappointing. However, did the athletic department do anything for the Maize Rage in helping them get out to Charlotte this year (serious question)? I just don't see much benefit for turning the Children of Yost into an actual group. As long as we all show up to games, and voice our support for the team, there shouldn't be much else we need to do.

*I have had student season tickets for 6 years, and will continue as a student for at least 2 more years.

SamGoBlue2

April 15th, 2011 at 4:04 AM ^

Let me begin by saying that I didn't want to disclose my identity, but I feel that it might be necessary now. I am the president of the Maize Rage and I am the one that brought up this discussion. Let me also say that, like I told the president of the Children of Yost, I am not trying to push this group either way, and whatever happens, I will completely support the decision. In no way do I want to divide Michigan sports fans.

To clear things up a bit however:

1. As it has been stated, if the group does become an officially recognized student group by the university and the university/athletic department tries to eliminate the CYA chant or anything else that is an integral part of the Yost student section by threatening to disband the group, then in essence nothing would change from what is now the status quo. If that were to happen, then disband and we are where we started. If the group gets money from the AD but is later told that they will no longer be supported financially if they don't clean up their act, then  once again we are where we started. They can take away money that they have given, but if you are not registered as a student group, then they aren't going to give you any money in the first place, so there is really nothing to lose when it comes to that.

2. To answer the question about the NCAA basketball tournament, no, the athletic department did not do anything to help us out in that regard. We were given one day (the Monday of the first week of the Tournament) to order tickets, which were $87 per game. Since we won the first game, we were automatically charged for the second game. The 12 of us that went had to fund everything ourselves, which sucked. HOWEVER, the athletic department did pay for 60 all-session student passes to the Big Ten Tournament in Indianapolis for the past two years. We have to get transportation and lodging ourselves, but there are extremely cheap student discounts available for hotels (we stayed at a decent place for $50/night, or about $12/person/night). The athletic department has also funded away game tickets and transportation to the Northwestern game two seasons ago and to the Michigan State game this past season for about 50 students (yes, that Michigan State game in East Lansing). The AD obviously can't pay for everything, but they do help us out quite a bit.

3. In no way does registering as an official student group mean you have to change ANYTHING about the game-day atmosphere at Yost. It can still be as spontaneous as ever. Perhaps by becoming a student group you can have weekly meetings to organize away game trips or something like that, as has been mentioned previously. But please don't think that just because you might become a student group means everything now has to be perfectly in unison and organized during games. IT DOESN'T. That's what makes Yost what it is, so keep it like that.

4. Quit hating on the Maize Rage, we are doing our best and becoming a formidable student section. Hahaha, just playing, but really, we are in this together so support all Michigan sports and students.

Thank you.

lhglrkwg

April 14th, 2011 at 9:31 PM ^

the corporations want you to become an official student section man!

but seriously, official student section gives michigan more control over the raunchier sides of the student section. if it aint broke, dont fix it

VictorsValiant09

April 14th, 2011 at 11:09 PM ^

This is all a good idea in theory, but as others have said, one of the charms of Yost is its spontaneity.  If anything needs to be done, it's:

A.  coordinating/providing assistance to get to road games,

B.  moving the band back up to the perch area, and making the student section more contiguous, as someone else mentioned.

Bando Calrissian

April 15th, 2011 at 1:37 AM ^

I wouldn't count on the band going back to the perch.  I was up there for three years, and while I loved it, the ways in which the numbers had to be cut down in combination with the odd location made the band inaudible in a good portion of the arena.  I subbed once in the new location, and while it was a vastly inferior location for pretty much everyone involved, the numbers and sound make more sense there.

Personally, that corner of the end zone where the band was before, when the damn thing was like 90 members, loud as hell, and provided an easily-accessible platform for director-dancing and prop storage (conveniently-stashed broom, etc.) was far preferable.  :)