Harbaugh Studying the Eagles' Option Offense

Submitted by BursleyHall82 on

Jim Harbaugh was on the Dan Patrick Show this morning, basically just to provide some Super Bowl analysis. He didn't get asked any Michigan questions.

It was a pretty unremarkable interview. The only interesting thing I took out of it was that Harbaugh seemed VERY interested in how the Eagles ran the RPO (run-pass option). He remarked that they seemed to run that type of offense 6-10 times, and Harbaugh said he was going to study each of them closely.

Of course, he studies everything closely, but in my overanalysis of what he said, I deduced that he's going to be incorporating some of those option plays into the Shea Patterson offense. You can listen to his segment here:

http://www.danpatrick.com/dp-podcasts/

dragonchild

February 5th, 2018 at 11:24 AM ^

I'm a fan of RPOs because of how they can flip the script on defensive gameplans and essentially option anyone on the field.  Dropback QBs can scramble on "broken" plays but this always strikes me as an underutilized version of the RPO -- they only do it if the defense is clearly overplaying something.  The RPO can really pick on a defender without relying on the QB to improvise, and it can often result in a relatively simple read.

rc15

February 5th, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^

Every year you see players saying "we knew exactly what they were going to run" or someone saying that a team has run/pass tells by minor differences in how the RB is lined up. RPO removes that, because the decision isn't made until during the play. If you have a QB that can make the right reads, it seems like a great way to keep the defense honest.

Need to make sure our OL can handle the complexity too though, or we'll end up getting a bunch of illegal man downfield penalties.

dragonchild

February 5th, 2018 at 2:16 PM ^

I think vertical RPOs are downright nasty because instead of trying to get a defender to bite on a fake you're forcing one to choose between two targets 20 yards apart, but yeah if the team's not comfortable with it that's a great way to get illegal man downfield.  And as we all know, according to the refs, Michigan is the only school in the country that actually commits illegal man downfield.

Not all RPOs are as risky, though.  You get everyone running sideways and toss the ball over a poor guy roaming the flat, there isn't necessarily a lot of vertical O-line movement.  It's conceptually a variation of the ol' pro-style bootleg.  Dunno if they're still doing it but Nebraska would run the veer with Martinez and a pitchman; I remember it stringing out the defense like crazy and thinking, "That would be an awesome RPO."

JonnyHintz

February 5th, 2018 at 11:30 AM ^

The kid has appeared in 10 games, has over 3,000 passing yards in a P5 conference. He’s projected to go in the first round in early draft projections, and he’s high in the preseason Heisman projections.

Technically, no, you don’t hand just the offense to him. But it’s a fairly safe bet that it’s going to be his after a competition that I really don’t expect to last all that long.

UMFoster

February 5th, 2018 at 1:05 PM ^

Yards and Touchdowns is how I look at it.  He didn't really produce either.

 

I'm not saying he is a bust or anything, just saying Shea is on a different level right now.

 

EDIT:  The picure didn't load when I first looked at the comment.  I get it now and apologize for the snarky comment. haha

UMFoster

February 5th, 2018 at 11:17 AM ^

IMO, Shea in an offense similar to that would be great.

I am probably going to get grilled for this, but our offensive system is somewhat archaic.  Not many teams thrive with our current system anymore.  It would be nice to see more of a spread approach on offense.

 

Just my opinion.

dragonchild

February 5th, 2018 at 11:37 AM ^

with our QB play last season.  Barely any completed downfield passes, QBs going down like dominoes, and the O-line couldn't run zone to save their lives.  Defenses would've been comfortable downfield with single coverage since no one could hit DPJ anyway, and we might've been down to Milton if the QB ran 10-15 times a game the way the O-line was busting.

There's an academic argument to be had about whether or not our system is truly archaic, but I think last season's results make for a bad example.  If we went to a RichRod-style zone read we wouldn't have been any better, and not because we didn't have the physical makeup to run it.

UMFoster

February 5th, 2018 at 12:00 PM ^

I never once said anything about a zone read offense.  Spread doesn't mean RR or Chip Kelly offense.  In fact you don't even need an athletic QB to run a spread offense.  Nick Foles and Carson Wentz aren't that athletic; especially relative to the players they are playing against.  Mason Rudolph isn't athletic by any stretch.

Also, spread offense doesn't mean long downfield passes.  You can still run  short and intermediate routes and be successful.

I think it could have been beneficial to run more spread concepts this year.  It prevents teams from stacking the box.  Therefore it would open running lanes.

dragonchild

February 5th, 2018 at 2:04 PM ^

We can boil it all the way down to the O-line splits but I'm not sure that's a good idea either with our tackle play.  Lateral mobility has been a big problem.

Otherwise I can't think of any sort of silver bullet that would've instantly made our offense better, that our offense last seasons showed any indication they could execute.

UMFoster

February 5th, 2018 at 2:15 PM ^

O-line splits?  That is not spread offense.

 

I'm talking about splitting more guys out wide.  maybe go 4 wide.  Having the receivers wider.  It forces the defense to pull more guys out of the box to defend wider which would open up running lanes on the inside.  If they continue to load the box then we have athletes outside one on one in space.  If you look at what the Patriots do with Gronk they split him out wide to create mis-matches.  I'm not saying that we have a Gronk on this team, but I think Gentry is comparable relative to the talent level.  It also forces another guy out of the box.

UMFoster

February 5th, 2018 at 11:59 AM ^

I said "Somewhat Archaic" to save myself some grief.  I knew people would grill me for it.  I don't think you will ever see a Wisconsin/Michigan/Stanford style offense in the title game anymore.  DC's have figured it out.  There is a reason that everyone else is adapting (Saban Included.)

yoyo

February 5th, 2018 at 11:18 AM ^

The play didn't work for reasons I can't remember but I really liked that fake toss to the left and quick pass to the right on the Eagles first trip to the red zone. The defense absolutely bit.

Fezzik

February 5th, 2018 at 11:19 AM ^

I just want to have a passing game this year. No more "we're too young, too injured, not good enough OL" excuses. Just some kind of passing threat please.

dragonchild

February 5th, 2018 at 11:29 AM ^

Those are legit reasons the offense stunk.  I'm somewhat more willing to entertain questions about why the passing seemed to get worse over the course of the season, but all the "I'm tired of excuses" are just shitposting at this point.  Yes, we know you're unhappy.  No one cares, because your entitlement isn't any sort of discussion.  You're whining, OK.  What do you want us to do in the offseason; give you a cookie?  We're discussing RPOs here, at least that's something, and the only thing you have to say is waah waah the football team isn't as good as I want.

Fezzik

February 6th, 2018 at 2:18 PM ^

Lol...entitlement? What are you talking about? Try relaxing a little guy and stepping off your judemental high horse. Injuries happen to every team every year. Speight struggled pre-injury and the guys who followed also struggled heavily. I don't see how any injury there broke our  already broken pass game. Black got hurt and showed some promise, but he was not saving the pass game last year.

We had Rs Jr's Harris and Ways at WR, not just freshmen. What's the "reason "our pass game stinks if those fourth year guys started all year if we can't use youth? McDoom, Crawford, and Perry all returned with experience under their belt but did any of these 3 improve from last year? 

The OL started a Sr, Soph (who started all of last year), Rs Sr, Soph, Rs Jr for the majority of the year. That's not that young at all. And we very well may be younger next year. Should we already write off the OL due to youth? Hell no. And we haven't had a great OL since well before Harbuagh got here. Youth and injuries doesn't account for a decade of lackluster OL play. 

Obviously with a great OL and all upperclass guys any pass game would be good. But that is NOT a requirement. Look all over the NCAA. There is absolutely no reason why service academies throw for more TD passes than us, only excuses. 

I don't know enough about RPO offenses to offer much. I'd love to see Patterson in this style of offense. It seems like the next big thing for football offenses. No idea on how complicated it is to run but would love if our guys had at least wrinkles of this.