Grady and Minor

Submitted by ShockFX on September 17th, 2008 at 11:41 PM

I think they both suck and should not play.  However, apparently lots of people want them to play over McGuffie/Shaw.  Rather than having to read this in every thread, can people please use this thread to explain why the hell they think they should play?

 

Thanks.

Comments

chitownblue (not verified)

September 17th, 2008 at 11:56 PM ^

I am, honestly, not that down on Grady. People say he fumbles a lot, but I'm having problems recalling specifics. I'm not saying I'm right, just that I can't recall.

The kid really only got a chance as a Freshman - he had around 30 carries before he was hurt as a sophomore, and then missed essentially all of the following season. I'm not saying he's good - just that I'm not ready to bury him yet. His TD against ND showed what he's capable of, I suppose.

Minor should not play.

Musket Rebellion

September 18th, 2008 at 12:38 AM ^

I'm more up on Minor than I am Grady. Grady was supposed to be the next big thing, thought he would supplant Hart as the lead back and fumbled his way down the depth chart with Mike Martin. Minor has shown flashes of being a strong runner this year in limited carries. The TD run against Miami was some of the strongest running I've seen this M team do. However he does fumble a lot, and White Lightning didn't fumble at all during Hurricane Schism down in South Bend so how about we keep him around. I'm all for Shaw getting more touches as well.

Jim Harbaugh S…

September 18th, 2008 at 1:03 AM ^

Grady in short yardage and goal line situations - I think he can excel in that role.  I'd be fine with him getting 3-5 carries a game (if the situation dicates it).

Minor fumbles too much for my liking -  he seems to either get a powerful 10 yard run or put the ball on the turf - I can live with him getting a couple of carries to give other guys a breather.

Brown, I have no idea what to think about him - apparently neither do RR and co. From what I've seen he has had 2 carries as a qb and that is his only PT. Call me crazy I think Avery Horn has been on the field just as much as Brown.

Shaw has looked solid when he is healthy - the clearcut number two back in my opinion.

McGuffie is clearly the number 1 guy I'd like to see him get about 25 touches a game.

 

sedieso

September 18th, 2008 at 1:06 AM ^

grady brings that nice change in pace and i think he is a case of high profile kid who never had his chance to shine (please correct me if i am wrong). ive always liked minor when he could hold on to the ball but i wanna c more of carlos brown and......avery horn. the guy just looks like a fast bugger and i wouldnt mind seeing him returning kicks

PattyMax64

September 18th, 2008 at 1:32 AM ^

I don't see any major problems whit these dudes at all. Fumbles happen all the time, we were just lucky to have a RB who never really fumbled the past 4 years.  The only possible problem with these guys could be their competition and that they are not fast enough for rich Rod's liking.  I wish Gray would just be moved to FB and goal line RB.  Minor can play, has great vision and is basically a gamer.  If you were to make this post at the beginning of the year it would be the opposite reaction from everybody, saying bench Grady (or kick him off the team for the DUI) and START Minor.  We have played 3 games, the Utah game shouldn't even count for RBs because it was a shitshow from the O-Line that allowed for no lanes.  Minor also has great vision and speed for a guy his size.  If you want a in depth view read the season preview and watch some of those vids, it will ppull the wool from over your eyes...

ShockFX

September 18th, 2008 at 1:41 AM ^

I've actually been saying Grady and Minor sucked for some time now.  Grady fumbled in ND2005 game, and that insane cutback that cost a TD.  Minor fumbled in the horror, and against Wisco, and against ND, and against Utah, and etc etc etc.  Grady also has fumbleitis and questionable vision.  Minor, while decent vision, has never been able to get the corner due to his speed.  Brown is fast but poor vision.  McGuffie has no fumbles all year while Grady has 1 backbreaking fumble, and Minor has 2 backbreaking fumbles. 

Also, Minor's two good runs this year were not really that awesome.  The one against Utah was against a stunt, that's why the middle was wide open.  Miami, McGuffie drove it down the field, then Minor broke one tackle on the edge because he couldn't get the corner on the guy, then made it look good with that flip into the endzone.

I also challenge that Minor is a gamer.  If by gamer you mean less talented than his teammates and less likely to help them win the game, but he tries hard, well, he does fulfill that.

PattyMax64

September 18th, 2008 at 2:35 AM ^

Sure Grady fumbled against ND in 2005, but how long ago was that? Oh wait, 3 years ago...  We haven't seen any real Grady aside from his work in the last game (which was mightily impressive) for a year and a half.  He got the reputation as a fumbler as a TRUE FRESHMAN getting minimal carries behind Hart.  This type of attitude towards players is harmful, because it limits the actual potential for someone to change over the 4 to 5 years they are in college.  Most backs get better ball skills as they get older and stronger. Not to mention he had the most physically impressive run of the ND game when he CARRIED a man 5 yards into the end zone.  But all of his good work gets overshadowed by a fumble that many people on this blog have said should've been blown dead due to forward progress.

 And the opinion on Minor is also not as accurate as you would like to think. Minor has great vision that is aided by his height, allowing him to see more of the field.  None of the RBs should be judged by the Utah game because it was all a mess, and any play that worked was basically due to luck.  Even in that game though, his fumble was because his hand hit the ground.  What I find the funniest in your argument is the gamer rebuttal.  The fact that he is a gamer is just that.  He does what it takes o do what he has to.  He will outrun people if need be, or he will run them over.  It doesn't matter, either way Minor is going to try to make a play.  Sure he is not as fast as Shaw or McGuffie, but he has the second gear needed to break a big play.  There has not been enough of a sample size on either of these two guy this year, in this offense, to make a decision.  

And the play that you called into question, if there was proper blocking, he would have gone in untouched, but the two guys who touched him on the play were crappily blocked.  He hit the hole that was there for him.  And I doubt that Shaw or Mcguffie breaks the tackle from the second man.  Grady or Minor however, would be a much better bet.  It seems that Shaw is in the mindset of "Outrun" McGuffie is "Avoid then Juke" Minor is "Run Over then Outrun" and Grady is the "Runover" Runaway Beer Truck type, a great option at FB in this offense.

msoccer10

September 18th, 2008 at 10:54 AM ^

I am a believer in giving the older guys the first shot at playing. I also thought McGuffie's blocking in the first two games wasn't very good. As such, I was an advocate for Minor/Grady/Brown. Like other people said in this stream, none of them really got a legitimate chance to shine IMHO. I think after the last game, however, McGuffie looked good enough to claim the starting tailback job, even if he needs to work on some things like blocking (another thing we miss Hart for. Always thought it was awesome how a tiny guy like him could shut down a blitzing linebacker) Shaw has looked explosive, but I am not ready to concede  him the #2 by the way. Still not enough carries to prove himself yet. I agree though, that the fumbling problem for Minor and to a lesser extent Grady could quickly end this discussion completely if it continues.

WolvinLA

September 18th, 2008 at 1:08 PM ^

Actually, Toussaint is 5'10" so I think that makes him taller than McGuffie, right?

Edit: After checking Rivals, I realize I was wrong.  McGuffie is taller, but they weigh about the same, so Toussaint is a thicker back.  Maybe that's what I was thinking. 

chitownblue (not verified)

September 18th, 2008 at 7:59 AM ^

As I said, I know it's a popular meme that Grady "is a fumbler" but all I can remember off the top of my head is 2005 ND and 2008 ND. Again, I'm willing to be proven wrong. I'm sure much of my ignorance is built around the fact that he's been absent for so long due to injury.

Minor, however, I do have a fresh memory of - he fumbles his ass off. Further, he's never displayed good vision, or good speed. He's been able to break a few tackles. There has never been a point where I've felt that Minor was even the second-best back on the football team.

Which brings us to Carlos Brown - there was no doubt in my mind who should have been Hart's primary backup last year, and who should be the "incumbent" this year (for the record, I'm ok that he got supplanted by McGuffie/Shaw, I'd just like to see some more opportunities). Brown sometimes lacked vision, but definitely has the flat out speed that RR looks for. His play vs. Illinois and Minnesota last year were 10 years better than anything we've seen from Brandon Minor.

jamiemac

September 18th, 2008 at 9:12 AM ^

.....about Carlos Brown.

 What gives with this injury he has. He has not looked hurt the couple plays he's been in there.....i really feel we're going to need to get something out of him during the Big 10 season. He's a weapon, IMO, and is being wasted right now.

 

jamiemac

September 18th, 2008 at 9:24 AM ^

But, RR keeps saying great things about Brown.......so I am not sure he's discarded him as the odd man out.......but, this mysterious injury situation is odd, so maybe he's become the odd man out and RR is just keeping his ego/confidence afloat by talking him up in pressers and such....its just a goofy situation as I see it.

Tim Waymen

September 18th, 2008 at 11:36 AM ^

I always liked Carlos Brown.  I thought that he was the better of the two backup tailbacks last year.  I really wonder what is going on with him playing 1 snap at QB every other game.  I'm sure that the coach knows best, but I am really surprised about Brown getting limited playing time.  I wonder if there is something going on behind the scenes.  Maybe he's in the dog house?  Maybe he's being saved for QB?  I have no idea.

Six Zero

September 18th, 2008 at 8:17 AM ^

I'll go out on a limb and call it now-- Minor will be gone next year, playing at Richmond or perhaps Hofstra.  Most likely griping about family values and RichRod the entire way.

 

jamiemac

September 18th, 2008 at 9:08 AM ^

The ND 2005 game had sone killer TO's by Henne. We should have benched him right then and there.....and, if not, benched him after the drive killing INT in the Horror last year.

Obviously, thats hyperbole......and that is what I feel about people saying banish BM and KG.....personally I dont feel either has been given a legit chance and when they do make a mistake its get magnified. That said, dont mistake this as meaning they should be ahead of certain peope on depth chart. Obviously, Sam is #1 and if Shaw is healthy he should be #2.

But, here's another point. Do you know who fumbled in virtually every game he played his freshmen year.......Beanie Wells, thats who. Sweatervest continued playing him and in the biggest game of the year his freshmen season--the 2006 clash of UM and OSU unbeatens--he ripped off a pretty back breaking TD run.

If you want players to ever come through on their potential, they have to play. We have a lot of time with BM and KG on the roster and I'd rather them play and have a chance to prdouce than get banished to the bench because of a few fumbles.

Hannibal.

September 18th, 2008 at 9:11 AM ^

I think that Grady also fumbled in the 2006 Vandy game, but it didn't cost us.

 I have never been impressed by Grady very much, and only occasionally impressed by Minor.  I think that McGuffie will continue to get the Lions share of the work, as he should.

Six Zero

September 18th, 2008 at 10:27 AM ^

...as the next Mike Hart and suggest selling off every other running back for extra tackling sleds and jockstraps, let's cross our fingers and see if he can handle an entire season of bangs and bruises in the Big Ten.  Let's face it, he's not the biggest guy in the world--Don't get me wrong, after three games I am DEFINITELY sold-- but I'm concerned about his ability to stay healthy given his small frame.

Certainly McGuffie with a nice change of pace back will be ideal, but other than Minor and Grady most of the others seem to be the same class of runner.

Can you say "TOUSSAINT?"  I sure can-- look for him to be the Thunder to McGuffie's Lightning next year.

ts

September 18th, 2008 at 11:37 AM ^

McGuffie living up to all his recruiting hype has been the best surprise of the season for me so far. I still think Shaw will have a breakout game at some point and will start splitting carries more evenly with the crime dog as the season goes on though.

I admit to being like "WTF no Minor?" during the first game but he and Grady have been outplayed by the freshmen since then. Now I'm just wondering how the staff could be so good at identifying RB talent but so clueless as to start Sheridan. The word out of fall camp was that Threet was a slightly better passer but Sheridan was a much better runner. Um, wrong and wrong.

ts

September 18th, 2008 at 12:37 PM ^

I hear what you're saying. Threet is definitely more of a gamer. But scout team D does not a strong arm make. The difference between Threet's arm and accuracy (not to mention decision making) and Sheridan's is way too immense to go unidentified in practice. I can only assume that RR really thought that Sheridan was going to be an effective rusher.

Goblue89

September 18th, 2008 at 12:25 PM ^

I really like the two back formations we used against ND with Grady as a lead blocker.  I feel that with his troubles in the offseason he will do whatever it takes (i.e. lead blocking) to get onto the field.  I also think he is our best option in the I formation and or obvious long passing downs.  As far as Minor is concerned, I also think he is out after this year and kind of hope that is the case.  He just doesn't fit what we are trying to do and his fumbles have been really costly-I don't care what anyone says, if you are a Division 1 football player at the University of Michigan you make that catch against ND!  In regards to Carlos Brown, for some reason I have this idea that RR has in some way been holding him back for something special.  Be it putting him in at QB for a whole serious and actually letting him pass or putting him in the slot, I just have a feeling he hasn't been playing all his cards with him.  I wouldn't mind seeing him return kicks either!

And for the love of God, can we please put someone else in to return punts.  I love Donovan Warren and all, but he is not what we are looking for back there.  Plus, if he gets hurt I am not real confident with our backup plan at CB.  I think Martavious Odoms should get a serious look!

jamiemac

September 18th, 2008 at 12:28 PM ^

I agree.....also, remember the Miami game. The running game had a lot of success in sets where Moundros was in as a lead blocker.

I liked those looks and the ones you referenced with KG. Slowly, but surely, the O is gaining an identity and RR and staff are figuring out who should play and where. I cant wait to watch this team keep progressing.