1464

November 5th, 2018 at 9:59 AM ^

Reading the tea leaves, it sounds like the coaches are getting good vibes from Harrison and or Karlaftis.  If this is the case, there is no way we could possibly reject either of them.  However, I don't like this.  We get on other schools for pulling scholarships, and rightfully so.  Unless there is another side to this story, we shouldn't tolerate it.  I'm not going to sit here and suggest that I don't support the Harbaugh regime, but I wish things like this were not part of the deal.

1464

November 5th, 2018 at 10:25 AM ^

Right.  Harbaugh doesn't even know I exist.  But I didn't suggest that 'I' shouldn't tolerate it.  I suggested that 'we' shouldn't tolerate it, which, by definition, includes more than just me.  This is a borderline sleazy recruiting tactic, if taken at face value.  There may be more to this story, and the coaching staff is not allowed to tell their side.  The fanbase should not be cool with this tactic for our coaching staff while condemning the practice in other places.  

I never swore away my fandom, or signed some sort of petition to remove the coaching staff.  I'm not going to write a letter to the AD.  I just suggested that this was not a good look.  But hey, we're potentially playoff bound, so it's easier to intentionally misrepresent my point and immediately circle the wagons than to have a little introspection.  Good input, random internet guy.

LSAClassOf2000

November 5th, 2018 at 10:40 AM ^

I suppose the bottom line here, at least for me, is that this kid is over a year out from being able to sign an LOI (I have thoughts about even bothering to sign an LOI, but different topic), so there was never really anything substantive to pull and thus I have a difficult time feeling bad about it. Actually, these are the sorts of problems that I would rather have when talking about "advance recruiting" (i.e., not in the current cycle), if you will. 

JHumich

November 5th, 2018 at 12:09 PM ^

Yes, and he will be just fine. He himself is thanking the coaches; why would we perceive them negatively in the situation, when he didn't? Rather than hedging their bets, it sounds like they've communicated openly with him, and that he appreciates it.

Currently, if offers are not made very early, students are perceiving that as disrespect. It's a bit of a tangled, messed up process; but, I don't see us mistreating anyone in it...

1464

November 5th, 2018 at 10:51 AM ^

Correct.  I'm arguing from a place of ignorance, but it is a hypothetical argument either way.  This situation happens with other teams as well.  I guess my annoyance is that the tenor of this board is very different when OSU has a situation like this come up.

It wouldn't be even remotely surprising if there were extenuating circumstances.  The only logical conclusion that can come of this is that recruiting is a very behind the scenes and personal process, and that a bunch of grown men on a message board should not speculate over it to any degree of seriousness.

McDoomButt

November 5th, 2018 at 2:50 PM ^

Scholarship offers are not unconditional. Everyone involved knows that on both sides.

I felt the way you do about Erik Swenson, that sure reeked of shit. But the fucked up part about the Swenson case was how little notice they gave him. They have learned their lesson and cut these guys loose early so they have time to go elsewhere.

He's in the top 25 for defensive linemen and signing day is over a year away. He'll get a shot at another P5 program that does not share Michigan's opinion of him.

GarMoe

November 6th, 2018 at 10:04 PM ^

Key, and most appropriate, term being IGNORANCE and yet you dont shy away from telling us that “we” must not “tolerate” this that you are entirely ignorant about.  And yet you also litter the thread with your attempts to justify and soften your stupid hot take on this that you are admittedly ignorant about.  Did you feel ignored on the home front so you’re taking it out on us?   Thanks

J.

November 5th, 2018 at 12:33 PM ^

For me, the question is whether or not the coaches were transparent with the recruit during the process.  If the recruit is told "you're our #1 guy, no matter what happens," and then gets a phone call saying "XYZ has committed and we don't have space for you anymore," I'm not happy.  If the recruit is told, "we like you a lot, but there are a couple of other guys higher on our board.  You can commit now, which secure your spot if those players don't come, but if one of those other players commits, we're not going to be able to honor the offer," then I don't have a problem with it.

We obviously aren't going to know every detail, but I'd expect a much more vitriolic tweet from someone who feels they'd been misled.

1464

November 5th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^

Your request was acknowledged.  Unfortunately, it has not dissuaded me from my stance.  While I know that would make you feel better, I hope you can find a way to continue moving forward with your day with the knowledge that I passively dislike this news.

EGD

November 5th, 2018 at 11:14 AM ^

I understand where you are coming from, 1464, but I think it's time to accept that this is the way college football recruiting is handled these days.  Verbal committments are not binding and M has been burned by late decommitments as many times as they have processed guys out, so it's a two-way street.  "Processing" is within the NCAA rules and is used by our competitors like Meyer and various SEC coaches.  Harbaugh has used this method since he arrived, so I think it's fair to say he's comfortable with it and feels it's necessary to compete.

It's sort of like having luxury boxes in the stadium, I think.  Would it be better if we didn't have this issue?  Sure.  But it's not realistic to expect other teams to stop doing it, so it's probably necessary unless we are willing to accept being an 8-4 type of program.

grumbler

November 7th, 2018 at 4:03 PM ^

The problem isn't that you "passively dislike this news," the problem is that you actively dislike this news, and make insinuations about the coaches based on your invincible ignorance.  

I am the one who passively dislikes this news, as I passively dislike any news when someone's hopes don't get fulfilled.  I don't encourage any one else to dislike it though, because my dislike is passive.  I then certainly don't argue that someone else "refuse to tolerate" the news, because that is the exact opposite of passively disliking the news.

BassDude138

November 5th, 2018 at 10:18 AM ^

This isn't exactly "pulling a scholarship" since the kid is over a year away from being able to even sign his LOI. I think it sucks because the kid was so pumped about Michigan, but Wiltfong just CB'd Harrison to M, so there's that.

ak47

November 5th, 2018 at 10:24 AM ^

You'll get shit on for this but this is 100% a consequence of the staff being way too willing to take lower rated guys early in the process. They've had to force decommitments a lot of years. The coaches are obviously comfortable with it but it doesn't make it not shitty.

1464

November 5th, 2018 at 10:47 AM ^

I'm sure I will.  This site doesn't do well with opinions that are against the grain, even if they're honest and defensible.  But to your point- I agree.  The staff seems to cast too large a net at first.  I get it, I guess.  Get in early for these guys because you have to build a relationship and nobody hits on all their top targets.  I don't know if there is a better way to do it.  What I do know is that they're putting the quality of the team above the best interests of the players.  Maybe that is just the necessary evil of fielding a championship level team, but we don't have to like it.

I think most would prefer not to know how the sausage is made...

Blue In NC

November 5th, 2018 at 11:47 AM ^

So I get your general point and I don't like this either or a school not honoring a scholarship.  But the timing of 2020 vs 2019 is important in this context.  It's also important to note that Michigan has in the last few years quite a few instances of getting in on guys early before other teams have been recruiting them.  This may have been an instance where they offered early and then some things changed.  It's not great, but given that it is over a year out from signing, it's not exactly a stain either.

Aero01

November 5th, 2018 at 12:13 PM ^

There's a big difference between presenting an unpopular opinion that is honest and defensible vs presenting that same opinion and saying that the differing viewpoint should not be "tolerated" (whatever that means).  In my opinion that is what's causing the negative reaction to your post.

markinmsp

November 5th, 2018 at 12:40 PM ^

Frankly though, I don't see how your position IS defensible as there isn't many listed in his or earlier classes for his (NT) position. (I guess Mazi Smith would be closest.) He is rather highly rated and thus desired. I can't help to think there has to be something more going on here.

GoBLUE_SemperFi

November 5th, 2018 at 3:44 PM ^

I just don't agree that this is how it is.  You go about this as though it's some big negative to the kid, when the reality is that Michigan is a championship level program that offered the kid.  Now, I'm sure that they have been in constant communication and when he committed, I'm sure that he understood that there were kids higher on the board that might potentially make his offer uncommittable.  He can now take the elevated pub and ratings and move on to another program.  That's just the way that it works, much like the kid that sits in Michigan's queue, until the offer from Stanford comes through.  It's all part of the process and I simply don't see anything wrong with it.

reshp1

November 5th, 2018 at 10:25 AM ^

I share you general reaction, but also keep in mind we have no idea what was actually offered to him. It's entirely possible that the offer was given with the caveat that something like this could happen. Given how far signing day is for 2020, I think this is probably a best for everyone situation. At the very least, he gets some visibility in his recruitment with a high profile commitment. 

ak47

November 5th, 2018 at 10:32 AM ^

I don't think the school should be doing conditional acceptance of commitments (outside of things like outside of football behavior or academics). If you need to see more growth and development from a player tell them they can't commit yet. Once you accept a commitment they should get a spot in the class. I think players should be able to sign letters of intent whenever they want, things like coaching changes, academics, behavior issues can void it, but a scholarship offer should be real from the day it goes out. 

J.

November 5th, 2018 at 12:56 PM ^

That would be nice, and I'd support the necessary NCAA rule change.  I think you'd see an end to scholarship "offers" to 8th graders and "commitments" from sophomores.

Until that rule change comes, though, this is the new normal.