Gholston Playing yesterday

Submitted by SugarShane on September 30th, 2012 at 12:04 PM

Sorry if this was already covered in the game thread yesterday, but I didn't see much discussion on this and I was wondering how it has gotten such little coverage.


I'm wondering how the hell Gholston was cleared to return to the game yesterday after having the "wind knocked out of him?" 


The replay sure looked like to me like (? Isiah Lewish I think) had helmet to helmet contact with Gholston, snapping Gholston's head back.  Then Gholston laid ABSOLUTELY MOTIONLESS for a good 30 seconds.  Then he gets up, and has this glazed look in his eyes on the sidelines like "WTF just happened to me?"


Then it gets brushed off as him having the wind knocked out, and nobody makes a peep again.


Now I'm no doctor, but I wasn't aware that being smashed in the head and having your neck snap back (with no contact to your chest) knocks the wind out of you.  I also wasn't aware that not being able to catch your breath leaves you motionless/face down for a good 30 seconds.  I've had the wind knocked out of me--I remember rolling around the ground panicking that I was going to die.  Laying still was the LAST thing you do in that situation.


That dude was hit in the head and rendered unconscious.  There are no "tests" to clear a concussion; once you are (pretty obviously) knocked unconscious, you have a consussion--end of story.  Whatever crackpot MSU "doctor" cleared him to play shouild lose his medical license. 


Litt1e Rhino

September 30th, 2012 at 12:14 PM ^

He passed the test for not having a concussion that's why they cleared him to play. The wind knocked out is an excuse for him having a glass jaw. It was obvious he was out cold.

Litt1e Rhino

September 30th, 2012 at 3:43 PM ^

Yes it was a hell of a hit and it would have put anyone down including me. I think his lame excuse of "the wind was knocked out of me" is obviously false. When he said that, it made him sound like he couldn't be knocked out.

Also when I saw the hit I hoped it was not a spinal injury. I didt want to see him hurt like that. But getting knocked out and being ok was good karma for trying to hurt denard last year.

david from wyoming

September 30th, 2012 at 12:16 PM ^

The sideline doctor was on the sideline. You are just judging from the tv shots that you saw. I'm not saying some sideline doctors don't put concussed player back in the game, I'm saying the doctor had a lot more evidence at hand about the condition.


September 30th, 2012 at 1:32 PM ^

I thought it looked bad at the time, too.  But sometimes things do not turn out to be as bad as they initially appear.  I thought Braxton Miller was going to be done for the day after he went down with what looked like a knee injury , but he apparently was okay, too.

I don't think it's fair to assume that a doctor - yes, even one who works for MSU - is not qualified to make an appropriate decision in these matters.  





September 30th, 2012 at 3:54 PM ^

Thanks for that helpful insight.  

Let's be honest: if this were a player for say, Northwestern, we'd just say "Huh, it looked bad, but I guess he's OK."  But because it's evil MSU, coached by the diabolical Dantonio, we assume the absolute worst.  Of course their team doctors are crooked, right?




September 30th, 2012 at 12:21 PM ^

While this is a good point I think it is a good discussion to have since this kind of thing happens in football. And Dantonio has been pretty successful at feeding the mdia out of the palm of his hand and they don't question him. It doesn't seem like the op is suggesting he knows more than the doctor, but that there is evidence to suggest that something fishy could have happened.


September 30th, 2012 at 12:23 PM ^

He was obviously knocked out cold. Just for the sake of being cautious with his health they should've sat him for at least a series, or until the half ended. They didn't really need him then, and better-safe-than-sorry with these young college kids feels appropriate to me in the wake of recent Big 12 coaches getting fired for endangering players health or "toughening up" players. Whatever positive impact he has for his defense is easily offset by the negative impact of penalty yards and first downs he gifts to opposing offenses, too, so it seemed pretty pointless to lie to the press about his condition and run him back out there on the next series.


September 30th, 2012 at 12:19 PM ^

Was gonna be about how poorly he played (even before this incident). It seemed like he was constantly being pushed around and was only around the ball when the runner got past him.

The only play he had, the one Musberger was raving about, he was totally guess that's when he is at his best. Go Tom!


September 30th, 2012 at 12:22 PM ^

It's Michigan State athletics. They are win if we can at all costs. They have a scumbag coach who acts embarrassing as hell in every thing he does. They didn't put his safety first and it's not surprising at all. They'll cover it up, lie and spin their own story. Who's suprised?


September 30th, 2012 at 12:25 PM ^

My gf is a brain doctor (and M alum) she has said many times this season, "if the player loses consciousness for even an instant he has a concussion." So if Gholston was, "out cold" then yes, he is done for the day by rule. That was the rule when I was playing too from '01-'06 and our trainers followed it to the letter. The docs and trainers at MSU yesterday must have been convinced that Gholston remained conscious the entire time and passed all other head trauma tests. Clearly, they were closer to it than we were.

M Wolve

September 30th, 2012 at 1:36 PM ^

that it sounds obvious for me to agree with a neurologist, but yeah, that's the easiest way to determine a concussion (consciousness).  Staying consciouss doesn't rule out a concussion, but losing consciousness definitely rules in one.  Now, we don't know for sure whether Gholston lost conscioussness or not (although it for damn sure looks like he did).  If he was knocked out (likely), he should have been out for the game.  Second Impact Syndrome kills people.  I hate MSU and even more so OSU, but I don't want to see these guys get hurt.


By the way, were you playing football at M from 01-06?  We may know each other.


September 30th, 2012 at 12:39 PM ^

FWIW, a neck snap can definitely knock the wind out of you. That's what happened the first time I got the wind knocked out of me (Basically fell off the monkey bars onto my head, 2nd grade problems man).

That being said, when I saw the hit and the position Gholston was laying there, motionless, face down, spread eagle on top of Miller, I thought for sure there was some serious damage, a concussion at the least. When he got up and walked off without assistance I was amazed. You have to think if it really was something serious we'll find out soon, either him being held out of practice or poor performance in their next game or two.


September 30th, 2012 at 12:40 PM ^

A player's responses to subjective testing and "how he looks" is a terrible way of judging fitness to return. As an earlier posters have noted: if he was unconscious - by definition he was concussed, the most objective way is a CT or MRI scan. He probably would have lit up the side of his concussion (essentially a bruised brain) and sometimes the other side (the contre-coup side is the technical term) where the brain rebounds and smashes into the other side. Testing using a battery psychometric questions is so-far the best proven question-and-answer syle of surveying someone, but those aren't administered on the sideline. Medical personnel attached to a team unconsciously are swayed and influenced. Most have the best interests of the players in mind but many are not specifically trained (coming from an orthopedic background or for some not even from a sports medicine/ortho/neuro background, just a fan/love of the game) and because they are "part of the team" become caught up in the same fervor - it will affect people's judgment.

Putthing a player back in when he may have a concussion may actually be the worst thing to do. A second hit when not fully recovered from the first one may be far more devestating than two hits with a period of recovery. I hope that Gholston is actually OK and maybe he was just down taking a breather, but the consequences of that hit and going back in may not be evident until he has long left MSU.


September 30th, 2012 at 12:44 PM ^

Isn't the NCAA creating standards for player protection in these situations? The answer is yes, but without independant medical evaluation, the process is easy to abuse. There aren't any penalties apparent for violations either.

This says that they should be cleared by a health-care professional, but unlike the NFL you don't have a union which demands that professional be independent from the team. Also unlike high school, you don't have parents in close contact with the coaches or team officials monitoring safety.  Teams and coachs at the level of Big Ten have a lot of autonomy not seen at any other level of the sport.