Gholston Listed as Starter / Suspension?
Sorry for everyone sick of the MSU/Gholston talk. This just broke, and is relevant regardless of what some people will say. Gholston might be out because of the Michigan game, and him being out might hurt MSU which directly impacts Michigan in the division standings.
Anyways, on the Depth Chart released today, Tommy Gholston is listed as the starter. It appears that at the press conference today they'll be announcing that he was made a captain, or called a racial slur (which we know is untrue, but maybe Saint D saw a way out of of suspending his favorite defensive player by claiming this and is taking it).
LINK to news, not depth chart: https://twitter.com/#!/mattcharboneau/status/126319468858191873
UPDATE: Apparently, MSU is looking into a possible infraction in which they were made aware of (maybe they didn't watch the game). Also, it looks like they're only looking at one play. I wonder if it's the punch or the helmet twist.
Bigger joke than I thought. They're basically downplaying the whole thing, saying it's possible & only one play. I just hope the Big Ten Offices aren't as blind & stupid about this whole thing. Either way, we'll find out soon as the Big Ten only gives teams a few days to announce either way before they make their own announcement.
UPDATE 2: "I wouldn't characterize it as dirty play, I would characterize it as reaction." -Mark Dantonio
October 18th, 2011 at 7:40 PM ^
October 18th, 2011 at 7:41 PM ^
October 18th, 2011 at 7:43 PM ^
October 18th, 2011 at 12:01 PM ^
Gholston's most egregious offense was against Denard. I highly doubt that anything Denard said to him could be construed as a "racial slur."
But having a press conference and accusing Michigan players of that would be a typical Douche-tonio* move to deflect responsibility and criticism for the felonious behavior displayed by Gholoston and some of his teammates.
* Not a nickname; resereved only for when he does something douchey.
October 18th, 2011 at 2:26 PM ^
Felonious...like Roundtree's attempt to decapitate Johnny Adams? Face it, your team is no better. Enjoy watching Gholston play on Saturday. I know it eats at you inside. I'm sure the crushing burden of 0-4 doesn't help matters much either. Damn, what do you people have left? Recruiting dominance? How'd the past four years of recruiting dominance work out for you?
October 18th, 2011 at 12:02 PM ^
While I agree that calling someone an Uncle Tom is a slur, would it make much sense for Lewan to call Gholston that? I'm a white guy who lives in whiteville, so maybe I'm wrong. It made sense to me why Jalen Rose would think Duke was a bunch of Uncle Toms, whoever Lewan calling Gholston that would make no sense.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:07 PM ^
And there is a perfectly good reason why he might have been using the name Tom. This is a bunch of b.s.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:08 PM ^
Bingo. But all the usual dummies will take the OMFG RACISM! bait anyway.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:18 PM ^
and the irony is that Tom is a non-violent man, refuses to follow the master's orders to beat others, and gets beat to death himself (without resisting) for his disobedience.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:20 PM ^
Calling a black man "Tom" is a shade better than calling him "n*****". If things happened as is being said - i don't know what to believe - i'd figure Lewan probably never realized that part, but to Gholston it's a total affront. So there's not much room for understanding here. It becomes a toxic brew on the field, whether one agrees with it being "right" or "wrong."
October 18th, 2011 at 12:40 PM ^
There is/was a well-known story about why the name Tom would be used, the recruiting story. More, in the recruiting story, Gholston was upset that he was being called the wrong name, not that he was being called Tom in particular. I imagine that he would have mentioned being offended for racial reasons if he had in fact been so offended.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:30 PM ^
The Uncle Tom thing seems hugely unlikely. Most of Michigan's and MSU's players are black. So why would Lewan deem Gholston an Uncle Tom for playing at State? Makes absolutely no sense. Also, how often do white people call black people Uncle Toms? It's an epithet black people apply to other black people.This Tom thing sounds like something a Sparty -- or Gholston himself -- manufactured as an excuse.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:40 PM ^
Yeah, I'm convinced. Wasn't trying to flame anything up here, we're just all having a discussion, and I think it's a good one.
Meanwhile, never meant to imply that I thought what Gholston did in the end was excusable in any way. I think that D'Antonio's comment says it all.
October 18th, 2011 at 2:31 PM ^
How dare you accuse such a pillar of society things such as making things up. Further, I that anyone doubts Gholson when he said he went up to Hoke afterwards and said "thanks for bringing the program back." I'm just confused as to why Hoke couldn't confirm that. Maybe 'cause it didn't happen and Hoke didn't want to call him out?
October 18th, 2011 at 3:27 PM ^
confusion on the whole "Tom" story, we can just refer to him as "Thomas" Gholston from now on. Or if that still offends some people, we can just call him "That F#$%ing thug from MSU" Gholston instead.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:29 PM ^
Also, Gholston didn't seem all that upset about the incident when reporters asked him after the game, as I imagine he would be if Lewan really said that, and he really took it that way. Instead, he just had a stupid sheepish look on his face and said he forgot both plays... As if he just blacks out when he's in the game. The whole situation is completely transparent. I'll be amazed and disappointed if anyone believes his BS outside of EL. Disgusting behavior.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:42 PM ^
No, to Gholston it's not a total affront. It's Lewan bringing up an issue from Gholston's recruiting that Gholston came out and told a story about. If what you said was true, no black parents would ever name their kid Tom. In this situation, without "Uncle" in front of it, it's just a fucking name. Obvioulsy without any back story, Tom might be taken as racist, but the circumstances here make it completely different.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:35 PM ^
wanted to make a racist statement, I'm sure he could come up with something better than calling him "Tom" . I suppose if he called him "a Tom" that would fit the racist accusation a little better. So it's just a coincidence that Gholston claims he chose MSU over UM was because he was repeatedly called Tom on a recruiting visit?
October 18th, 2011 at 12:16 PM ^
How exactly do we know that he wasn't called a racial slur?
We have no idea what was said. We do, however, know that Gholston punched him (among other infractions). There is no reason to assume Lewan said anything objectionable besides the fact that Gholston punched him. The burden of proof is on Gholston here, not Lewan.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
Kind of, but not really.
In our justice/cultural system we say "Innocent until proven guilty" but the accused are hardly treated that way, especially when it's something so touchy. I'm not comparing or contrasting the two, but two instances where the accused is automatically viewed as extremely guilty are rape & racism.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:30 PM ^
actually that is not right. Once the prosecution or plaintiff has established all elements of the crime (both the act and the guilty mindset), the burden shifts to the defendant to establish a justification/excuse defense, known in legal terms as an affirmative defense. The "guilty mindset," or mens rea, for battery is only the intent to actually strike someone (which is clearly satisfied here). if gholston wanted to say "yeah i did it (which is obvious) but i had good reason," the burden would be on him to present a valid excuse.
in this case, being called "tom," which wasnt short for "uncle tom" but was instead referencing the fact that gholston was mistakenly called "tom" on one of his michigan visits, is probably not an awsome excuse.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:07 PM ^
As others have pointed out, we don't know with 100% certainty. But we can get to 99.9+% through circumstantial evidence. Consider the following:
- Gholston proved himself to be a douche on other occasions during the game.
- Gholston (and State) desperately want to shift focus from indefensible dirty play on several occasions, and "at least dodgy" play on others. Playing the race card is a convenient way to do that.
- It's a pretty safe guess that Lewan's teammates wouldn't be down with him tossing racial epithets during the game. Do we really think that Ricky Barnum would be cool with this? (They play kind of close to one another. A lot.) His other teammates, white or black? No freakin’ way.
- We have a fully understandable story as to why Lewan might have called Gholston "Tom" - based on the recruiting visits where someone supposedly called him Tom instead of William. If Gholston felt dissed because one of his suitors kept calling him by the wrong name, that seems like legitimate trash talk fodder. (Can go two ways on this - (1) we cared about you so little we did not bother to learn your name, or (2) you were such a prima donna about somebody accidentally calling you by the wrong name that I'm going to mock you for it. I'm cool with either of those tacks.)
- We have never caught a whiff of any allegation of racism pointed toward Lewan.
- As bad an epithet as "Uncle Tom" is, it is likely to be applied to someone who is viewed as overly-conforming to "white" society. How the hell would that fit Gholston?
- Also, "Uncle Tom" seems much more likely to be uttered by an African American to another African American. Otherwise it loses its impact – see the bullet point immediately above.
- Did I mention that Gholston proved himself to be a douche on other occasions during the game? I did? Good.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:51 AM ^
I'm sure the "internal review" will go on until they after they play Nebraska and Wisconsin, and he'll be suspended for the Minnesota game.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:52 AM ^
The B1G offices are on this. MSU has 3 days to respond otherwise they will take action. I'm betting some sort of decision will be made today.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:49 AM ^
I'd probably wait a few days to see what happens before everybody gets their panties in a knot. There may be questions from the B1G that have been directed toward Lewan or Denard. It is only Tuesday morning. Let's wait to see what Danfonio has to say in his presser, assuming it happens.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:51 AM ^
MD: "The lack of composure is frustrating, but we're not coaching that."
What?! That isn't coached?
October 18th, 2011 at 11:55 AM ^
He's supposed to twist the face mask deep in the pile, not out on the fringe where it can be seen. Lack of composure. Poor coaching.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:58 AM ^
Someone is going to suspend him, it is just a matter of who and how long.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:59 AM ^
When is the big ten going to acknowledge this situation? Dantonio does not believe in punishment. Hell, he's the one who told the 20 year old kid that he's teaching to do it. It's pretty clear why his players don't get drafted. They have no morals or respect.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:36 PM ^
...indicated that he has been in contact with the league office about the incidents.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:01 PM ^
MSU does not suspend anyone but does pay a lot of lip service to discipline, and the media is transfixed by Dantonio's stern words, figures that anyone with that jaw must promote discipline, and forgets about Saturday.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:31 PM ^
I disagree. I think much of the media, notably Adam Ritternberg with ESPN, is as vastly disenchanted with Dantonio-discipline as we are.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:25 PM ^
As soon as Mark Schlabach's glowing columns about the wonderfully intense Michigan State Spartan football teams contain a mention of their goonishness, I'll believe what you're saying. Until then, Rittenberg remains the exception that proves the rule.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:06 PM ^
"MSU issues a statement from AD Mark Hollis saying it has been notified of a "possible sportslike conduct violation.""
well B10 is on this, and in all honesty if they are I would prefer they handel it instead of MSU doing the smart thing and just suspending him preemptively
October 18th, 2011 at 12:06 PM ^
...from the way Taylor Lewan was tossing him around like a rag doll.
A point that keeps getting missed on the facemask twisting play against Denard is watch how he comes into the pile. He comes in with one knee aimed at Denard's ribs.
He is clearly attempting to break Denard's ribs, then he grabs the facemask and does the neck twist.
He should be banned from college football for either act.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:52 PM ^
He is clearly attempting to break Denard's ribs.
Come on, there's no need for sensationalistic hyperbole. If he really did lead with his knee, that just makes a douchey play even douchier.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:06 PM ^
MSU issues a statement from AD Mark Hollis saying it has been notified of a "possible unsportsmanlike conduct violation."
Anyone know what this is referring to??
October 18th, 2011 at 12:10 PM ^
Dantonio talks a goodd game but acts like a scumball by doing nothing. Wow, sounds alot like Tressel. I wonder if these guys know each other?
October 18th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
If you are serious, Dantonio was one of Tressel's assistants (and by many accounts worshipped the man and his ways)
October 18th, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
FAIL. He was clearly not serious.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:41 PM ^
Relatively low number of points suggested maybe he didn't know. Not a fail.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
Deep--My tongue was implanted firmly in my cheek.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:41 PM ^
Copy that.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:26 PM ^
Just a matter of time until it catches up with Dantonio too.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:09 PM ^
Hollis: "I take sportsmanship seriously, but it's equally important for me to evaluate this game and the particular play in its totality."
Read as: "He's good at football and he may improve our chances of beating Wisconsin so it's all good"
October 18th, 2011 at 12:12 PM ^
Man...that says it all.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:37 PM ^
"This is an isolated incident and Coach D and his staff will continue to emphasize the importance of maintaining one's composure during the heat of the moment," Hollis' statement reads.
(via ESPN)
This is, of course, after Gholston went back out to play after each of his personal fouls.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:49 PM ^
Absolutely. And tatgate was an isolated incident that is in no way indicative of real problems in the Ohio State athletic department.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:22 PM ^
Mark Hollis would never say totality. The guy has bad grammar and rolls with the situation.