GERG needs to go, but Wikipedia defacing? Classless.

Submitted by Gulo Gulo Luscus on November 21st, 2010 at 12:30 AM

I just finished changing the GERG Wikipedia entry, which as of 12:30AM Sunday began:

"Greg Robinson (born October 9, 1951 in Los Angeles, California) is a joke of a defensive coordinator for Michigan."

Real classy, guys.

Honestly, it's been a blast having GERG around.  The man has beautiful hair and that stuffed wolverine he pulled out today was pretty wild.  Regarding both GERG and the defense, I haven't seen any signs of quitting this year where lesser men would have given up.

Having said that...

I think it's time we all join together in looking forward to a new defensive coordinator.  This is in no way a direct commentary on the performance versus Wisconsin, or whether or not GERG deserves all/majority blame.  When things go this bad, heads will roll, and I believe he is un-retainable.  There is no benefit to axing him before the season is over, and I hope he uses these last two games to push the defense to be its absolute best.

Comments

Gulo Gulo Luscus

November 21st, 2010 at 12:47 AM ^

"He attributed this success to his "hard work and dedication" at Harvey Mudd College where he obtained a M.A. in 'How to not coach a defense'. He has followed this up with Doctoral level work at Michigan with the working dissertation title "Michigan: How I Made Bad Even Worse"."

orobs

November 21st, 2010 at 1:01 AM ^

"Honestly, it's been a blast having GERG around."

I'm really. Really. Drunk. So I am just going to pray that I missed the sarcasm of that comment.

TrueBlue88

November 21st, 2010 at 1:18 AM ^

if its not Casteel all of defensive coaches need to be shown the door! I hope DB and RR get the coaching search going before the bowl game and find a great defensive mind to come here and make Michigan's defense dominant again!

Hail

Foreverjian

November 21st, 2010 at 2:54 AM ^

Let me see if I understand your reason for this post.

Your statement implies a UM fan, and likely someone from this very blog went onto wikipedia and input fictious statements about UMs GERG.  Now I hate to burst your soap box bubble BUT, I find it highly unlikely that anyone that actually reads your statement actually wrote any of that.  Also did you ever consider the fact that anyone can write that, and by anyone I mean anyone on the face of the planet earth. 

So in summary, thank you for this helpful post.  It helped me fill 3 minutes of my night when there was nothing else going on and with the 30th irrelevant post about either RR or Gerg's job today.

#7  UW ffs, they're quite good!  Did anyone see us as the favorite here?

 

cheers!

dearbornpeds

November 21st, 2010 at 7:50 AM ^

     I believe some of the defensive staff has been close to rr for a long time.  I don't know if he can fire them;  at the same time, I don't know if he's willing to cede control of the d to a new coordinator. 

Bluemandew

November 21st, 2010 at 8:42 AM ^

    I have been trying to  figure this out for weeks. How is the youth and injuries on this team a acceptable excuse for Rich Rod but not Gerg? It seems the person who actually has to field the untit that the michigan secondary hating god has decimated would get the benefit of the doubt.  Getting rid of Gerg does no good if all Rich Rod is going to do is go out and hire his third DC who he is going to force to work with his toadies and run the 3-3-5. I think we would be much better of if we kept Gerg let him bring in whatever assistants he wants and run his own system. Then if they still suck  you actually have data to say Gerg sucks and it's not just being forced to run a system he doesn't have personel for.

  

Steve in PA

November 21st, 2010 at 11:05 AM ^

I'm not in meltdown mode, which some are after yesterday for a reason unknown to me.  We are who I (and we) thought we were before the season, a 7-5 team.  I think the PSU and Sparty games were much more troubling than yesterday, but that's another thread altogether.

What I have not understood since the beginning of the year is why we give the defense a pass because it is full of freshmen and sophomores, but the offense is the #1 offense in the B10 also full of freshmen and sophomores.  I have always been taught that defense is the easier of the two to learn, and in this system I think that holds even more true than in the majority of cases.

What I saw yesterday is exactly what I expected to see.  We're a 7-5 team that could have been an 8-4 or 9-3 team with competent coaching on the defense.

Stuck in Ohio 2

November 21st, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^

Well id say the reason for the pass on defense is largely due in part to injuries/transfers/early leavers,recent recruiting years etc and not to mention RR isn't exactly known as a defensive guru.

Or it could just simply be that the underclassmen on offense are smarter football players then their counterparts on defense.Either way its hard, if not impossible to narrow it down and confidently blame GR or the players themselves, which is why I really don't think GR will be fired but time will tell I suppose..I mean after all he does have at least 1 or 2 more chances to win this season then we can really evaluate him.

chatster

November 21st, 2010 at 9:36 AM ^

Bluemandew, Greg Robinson was Head Coach and, for part of the time. Co-Defensive Coordinator at Syracuse from 2005-2008.  While running his own schemes and working mostly with his own assistants and his own players, Robinson’s defenses at Syracuse were ranked 57th (when his defense consisted of Paul Pasqualoni’s players), 107th, 111th and 101st during those four seasons.  Robinson's 2009 Michigan defense was ranked 82nd among FBS teams.  His 2010 defense is ranked 111th among FBS teams.  That's four out of six seasons in which Greg Robinson coached defenses were among the 20 worst in college football's top division, and only one season out of those six in which Robinson's defense ranked (barely) in the top half of FBS teams.

Is it fair to judge Greg Robinson's coaching ability based only on his six most-recent seasons at the college level?  Could any Defensive Coordinator have made those six defensive units perform any better?  Michigan has a top ten offense; could Greg Robinson bring Michigan a top ten defense?

I'll leave it to the people who will be making the decision about Michigan's football future to answer those questions and weigh the benefits against the risks of having Greg Robinson coach Michigan's defense beyond the Ohio State game or the bowl game.  But for those of us who witnessed The Greg Robinson Error at Syracuse, there would be many more risks than benefits for Michigan to keep its defense in Greg Robinson's hands (even if he offered to coach for nothing more than free parking near Schembechler Hall).

Stuck in Ohio 2

November 21st, 2010 at 9:51 AM ^

But can you really compare Syracuse to UM? And outside of BG, Brown and Warren (kinda?) Greg really hasn't had much talent. Sure he doesn't have the best track record but let's also not forget that he has two rings in the NFL. I know, the NFL is completely different but IMO his ring argument holds about as much water as his Syracuse past record arguement, not much.

I must say that I am on the fence about his firing but the thing I see (or at least believe to see) is lack of connection with the players. Sometimes it seems like he has a hard time connecting with 20 year olds and motivating them or coaching them. Or is this just me?

Bluemandew

November 21st, 2010 at 10:46 AM ^

Answer one question for me please. How is Scott Shafer doing after being 2008's scapegoat of the year? Another example of a coach that looks like he can accomplish good things when aloud to run his defence with his coaches. All I am saying is what change do we really get if we fire Greg Robinson and then Rich Rod hires another DC with the same assistants again and again forces the new DC to run the 3-3-5 or the whatever you want to call the multi front we run? My guess probably not much better.

chatster

November 21st, 2010 at 11:07 AM ^

Scott Shafer's Syracuse's defenses have  been excellent, compared to Greg Robinson's Syracuse defenses.  Granted, the level of competiton between Syracuse and Michigan isn't equal, but Scott Shafer and his assistants have taken some of Greg Robinson's Syracuse recruits and made them better players, including Doug Hogue and Derrell Smith whom Robinson recruited as running backs, but whom Shafer and 'Cuse LB coach Dan Conley have turned into very good linebackers.

Just consider how Greg Robinson did at Syracuse from 2005 through 2008 when he hired his own assistants, and ran his own schemes, and used mostly his own players.  The last three of those Syracuse defenses were among the 20 worst FBS defenses.

While Michigan has suffered several unfortunate losses to injuries and defections among the players it expected to be contributing to its defense in 2009 and 2010, is there any evidence to suggest that by giving Greg Robinson another year to work with Michigan's defense, the Wolverines will experience the same level of improvement that Syracuse's defense has enjoyed with Scott Shafer working as Defensive Coordinator the past two seasons?

If you assume that continuity is more important than quality of performance, then Greg Robinson may as well stay at Michigan.  But isn't it possible that Dave Brandon will work with Rich Rodriguez in locating a Defensive Coordinator who would help Michigan's defense improve?

chatster

November 21st, 2010 at 11:30 AM ^

If Dave Brandon encourages Rich Rodriguez to hire a new Defensive Coordinator (with help frm Brandon and some other influential Michigan football alums), might he also suggest that any new Defensive Coordinator be allowed to hire his own assistants, establish his own defensive schemes and be more involved in recruiting than Greg Robinson has been, so that Rodriguez would be less involved in (a) hiring a new DC than he was in hiring Robinson, and (b) determining the type of defense that should be run, rather than imposing a defense he prefers on a DC who might be ill suited to run it?

If Rodriguez balks at losing the friends he brought to Michigan from West Virginia, then maybe Michigan will be looking for a new Head Coach also.  Could this "battle" come down to whether it's more important for Rich Rodriguez and his friends from the WVU defensive coaching staff to stay at Michigan than it is for Michigan to have a good Defensive Coordinator?

Bluemandew

November 21st, 2010 at 12:15 PM ^

You just made one of my main points for me. Wich is what is the real change MI gets if you just bring in a new DC who is then once again forced to use the same scheme and assistants. I argue it does next to nothing. If Gerg is fired and a new DC hired those who supported that will have progress to point to next year no doubt about that. But I think at least some of that progress would happen with or without a new hire due to the youth of this defence this year. The real question is does it benefit these players more to have yet another coach or keep Gerg and some continuety?

chatster

November 21st, 2010 at 1:33 PM ^

Is one of your main points that it's better to continue ineptitude than to seek improvement?  I don't believe there would be any benefit in doing that, unless the only way to keep Rich Rodriguez running the Michigan offense would be to have Greg Robinson running (or is that "ruining?) the Michigan defense.  Continuity of Greg Robinson's defenses didn't work too well for the Kansas City Chiefs or the Syracuse Orange in the years since 2000.

Let' s say that keeping Rich Rodriguez for the offense is very important, and the only way for him to stay at Michigan is for his assistants from West Virginia to continue to work with him.  Would you then consider the possibility that somewhere in the world there might be a Defensive Coordinator other than Greg Robinson who could mesh well with Michigan's defensive assistants from WVU, run the schemes that Rich Rodriguez likes to run on defense, and get the Michigan defense up to a national ranking in total defense of say 67th (where Michigan ranked with Scott Shafer in control of the defense)?  Or what about making Bruce Tall the Defensive Coordinator and replacing Robinson with a decent linebackers coach who can run the schemes that Rodriguez wants to run on defense?  Wouldn't that also satisfy your continuity concerns?

NJWolverine

November 21st, 2010 at 8:31 PM ^

If Rodriguez was so loyal to his defensive assistants, why did he hire Shafer, who ran a 4 3, and G. Robinson, who ran a 3 4.  There is is a lot of correct talk about the defensive assitants undercutting G. Robinson, which is true, but the reverse is true also.  By bringing in two DCs with different philosophies, Rodriguez was in a way questioning the 3 3 5 run by the defensive assistants he brought over.  The effect, of course, is a ugly, unworkable mix of schemes that results in disaster on the field.  As I pointed out before, if Rodriguez himself believed so much in the 3 3 5, why did he not bring over a 3 3 5 DC, or at least not bring in a DC who runs a totally different scheme, which was the case with Shafer and continues to be the case with G. Robinson?  He had the choice of a 3 3 5 DC and decided against it twice.  Right now, I don't think any of the defensive assitants are happy becuase none of them have their scheme totally in place.

There is no question that a change has to be made.  Even with the defense's personnel shortcomings, the defense has ceded in B10 games 35, 34, 38, 41, 65, 16 and 48.  It's just embarassing.  I believe Rodriguez has ceded the right to control the defense.  He doesn't seem to get involved unless he has to.  When he has, he prefers the 3 3 5, which has resulted in unmitigated disaster.  He sees that, and hopes that blending other concepts can save the defense and still have it maintain the 3 3 5 core.  It has not.  I see these decisions as almost trying to kick the responsibility onto something else while trying to figure out what type of defense he should have.  It's a fatal hesitancy that has cost us dearly.  Regardless, the time for delay has ended, as a decision clearly needs to be made about the identity and direction of this defense. 

AgonyTrain

November 21st, 2010 at 10:20 AM ^

What...the hell is that? Is that a stuffed toy in his hand? Is insanity a reason to terminate for cause (assuming performance alone isn't) cause I would like to save his severance money.

goblue20111

November 21st, 2010 at 10:23 AM ^

Yes, let's fire Greg.  Nothing screams consistency and is better for recruiting than a 4th defensive coordinator in 5 years.  I agree with bluemandew 100%.  I understand the NFL is different from college but you don't DC two teams to a SB with the defense that those Broncos teams had.  Who here is old enough to remember them? Because they were really good defenses.  Is Greg the DC version of Charlie Weis (can coach in the NFL but can't do it in college)? Maybe but I'd like to give him a shot with his own scheme and players.  Can we also remember that Greg DCed the 2004 Texas squad that beat us in the Rose Bowl to the 23rd ranked defense in the nation that year? The man's fallen on some bad luck.  Syracuse, while historically not on the level of Michigan, has been a top 25 program throughout history by mosy statistical measures.  He went there when they were really  bad and couldn't do much but I still think he deserves a shot. 

MGoDC

November 21st, 2010 at 10:50 AM ^

Not necessarily disagreeing with your sentiment here but come on, John Elway won those superbowls.

Do you know who else won those superbowls with the Broncos and has been fired recently from that very same team? Head Coach Mike Shanahan. Hell, Gruden was fired from the Bucs a mere 7 years after winning his superbowl. Sports is a "what have you done for me lately" type business. I guarantee if Mack Brown has a few more down years that Texas will fire him too. Hell, he already has a warm seat after only one bad year despite coming off a 12-0 regular season last year.

Steve in PA

November 21st, 2010 at 11:12 AM ^

Not necessarily disagreeing with your sentiment here but come on, John Elway won those superbowls."

I've been making that point since he was hired.  GERG isn't a great DC, he's just been blessed to be in places that had a great offense and he could field a middling defense and get by.  I'm a longtime chiefs fan and am quite familiar with his body of work in the NFL.

jmblue

November 21st, 2010 at 2:42 PM ^

 Nothing screams consistency and is better for recruiting than a 4th defensive coordinator in 5 years. 

I've posted this before, but it apparently bears repeating, since people keep trotting this tired argument out:

Our 1997 national-championship team was on its third DC in four years.

OSU's 2002 national-championship team was on its third DC in four years.

Texas's 2005 national-championship team was on its third DC in three years (and the new DC actually replaced Greg Robinson).

History has shown repeatedly that a new coordinator can effect positive results right off the bat.  We also saw this in 2006 when Ron English was a first-year DC.  The idea that a bad coach should be retained purely for continuity's sake is crazy.  Keeping a bad coach around is never a good idea.  Continuity is only a good thing when it means keeping a good coach around. 

chatster

November 21st, 2010 at 10:48 AM ^

There is one "positive" comparison between Michigan and Syracuse for this season.  Michigan beat UConn 30-10 in the 2010 season opener for both teams.  UConn was held to 10 points, but gained 343 yards and had 16 first downs.  Last night, UConn on the road beat Syracuse 23-6.  Syracuse held UConn to 254 yards and 14 first downs.  While Syracuse's opposition hasn't been even remotely as good as Michigan's, Syracuse currently is ranked 6th among FBS defenses.

As for Greg Robinson's success in the NFL, the rankings for his NFL defenses from 2000-2003 were:  2000 Denver Broncos - 24th; 2001 Kansas City Chiefs - 23rd; 2002 Kansas City Chiefs - 32nd; 2003 Kansas City Chiefs - 29th.

Granted, when Robinson was Co-Defensive Coordinator at Texas in 2004, the Longhorns were ranked 23rd among FBS defenses, but Texas ranked 25th among FBS defenses in 2003, and 10th in total defense in 2005, after Robinson left.

jmblue

November 21st, 2010 at 2:46 PM ^

It seems like throughout his career, GERG has had an almost Chauncey Gardner-like ability to receive credit for other peoples' doing, while somehow avoiding responsibility for his own mistakes.  It's incredible to me (in the literal sense of not believing) that anyone could review his track record and consider him worthy of continued employment here.

jmblue

November 21st, 2010 at 8:42 PM ^

OK, tell me this: what exactly has Greg Robinson done in his two years here to give you any confidence that he can be a top-notch DC?  The long-term goal is to be a national champion, not a team that barely scrapes out a bowl bid.  When you've coordinated the two worst defenses in school history, your job shouldn't be safe.  Anyone can perform poorly with shaky personnel.  That takes no special skill.

BTW, I don't think Floyd's injury was that devastating (except to him personally).  Avery's done a pretty good job in his place.

Stuck in Ohio 2

November 22nd, 2010 at 5:54 PM ^

"Anyone can perform poorly with shaky personnel."

Unless I'm misunderstanding this, you just answered your own question and made my arguement right there..?

And yes, Avery has done a nice job. My point with the Floyd reference was that when he went down, it was a MAJOR loss for the defense and for morale..At the time of his injury Floyd was an average player.

My point in mentioning his injury was that losing an average player was a MAJOR loss for the D, which in turn is a testament to the level of talent and youth GR is coaching.

squints02

November 22nd, 2010 at 5:56 PM ^

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