Gardner-Morris is there a double-standard?

Submitted by Chiwolve on

While I continue to believe that we have some of the most knowledgeable and passionate fans in college football, I am a little confused at the amount of outrage (multiple threads calling for Hoke’s head) over the way he handled Morris today and the utter lack of outrage we have collectively shown when Devin has taken big shots, been gimpy and PLAYED AN ENTIRE QUARTER WITH A BROKEN FOOT – without being taken out (http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/various-sources-twitter-gardner-played-fourth-quarter-against-osu-broken-foot)

Let me be clear with what I’m saying here – in no way, do I condone the way Hoke and staff handled Morris today – and I think every Michigan fan (including myself) is or should be appalled with the way the situation was handled this afternoon. My question is whether we as a fan base, have shown a double-standard when it comes to big hits / injuries suffered by Gardner vs. Morris? And if so, are there any legit reasons for this? (i.e. we are fed up with Hoke, and using this as a trigger for our anger)

I know I will probably get neg-bombed to Boliva for this, but I also now I’m not the only one who feels this way as evidenced by other comments, and think it’s a discussion worth having

Drailok

September 27th, 2014 at 9:02 PM ^

Morris was stumbling & foggy. He looked drunk. He did not appear to be leaning on his teammate because his leg hurt, but because he was seeing birds.
I've never seen Gardner take a direct hit on the chin & have his head snap back into the turf like that.

Canadian

September 27th, 2014 at 9:23 PM ^

Was disgraceful to see the coaches not pull him after that shot. He was falling down when walking back to sideline!!! I'm pretty sure that anyone who watches football has learned a little bit about concussions the last few years and there is no chance he didn't suffer a concussion from that hit.

KBLOW

September 27th, 2014 at 9:03 PM ^

No.  Gardener wasn't limping nearly as visibly on that foot.  It could've been a turned ankle for all anyone knew.  Plus, today, THERE WAS A VERY CAPABLE BACKUP QB WHO COULD'VE BEEN PUT IN AT ANY TIME!

btn

September 27th, 2014 at 9:04 PM ^

I doubt they were able to officially diagnose a broken foot during the game.  Likely Gardner knew his foot was hurt and played through it.

However, when you see someone take a cheapshot to the head, get up woozy, and then not only not get checked for a concussion but then stay in the game....and even get thrown back in the game after they are taken out.   It is something that was obvious and is actionable.

I do not think I can recall Gardner showing that level of distress after a hit to the head, and then he stays in.

reshp1

September 27th, 2014 at 9:05 PM ^

Head injuries are different and people are rightly more sensitive about them. That said, I sort of agree that people are looking at this with a very different lense than Gardner's 2013 pummelling. It's probably more that the game and season look lost as opposed to last year were we were in most games still until the near the end.

MGoBrewMom

September 27th, 2014 at 9:05 PM ^

And I hear where you are coming from, but no. Devin wasn't dealing with the foot and his bell getting rung. And, he didn't have a capable back up just waiting in the wings. Devin knows the offense (probably better than Shane), and was uninjured on the sideline wanting and able to step in. PLUS, Shane was a mess physically...when it was Devin, it was his foot, and he was playing out of his mind even with that. Different deal all together

Jon06

September 27th, 2014 at 9:06 PM ^

The issue is not the leg. Anyone who thinks the issue is the leg doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. The issue is that he got rocked in the chin, was obviously concussed, could barely stand, and the coaching staff pretends not to have even noticed. That's risking Shane's life out of incompetence or negligence. There are no other options. This is in an entirely different universe than playing a guy on a bum leg.

nowayman

September 27th, 2014 at 9:12 PM ^

collective take on the two injuries (or rather the two qbs taking injuries) and suggesting there was a difference in outrage based on the qb that was in.  

There wasn't.  The board nearly lit this site on fire when Gardner was left in during garbage time at ND.  And started sharpening pitch forks upon reviewing the late hit that occurred in that game.  

Now, I understand, it's about the outrage at leaving the kid in after he gets hit.  But I do believe the board would be just as pissed if it had been Gardner that was left in today instead of Morris.  

MGoBlue96

September 27th, 2014 at 9:15 PM ^

The leg to me was still an issue even before the possible concussion. Shane was clearly having trouble moving in the second half. Hoke was asking for trouble, when you leave a QB in who can't escape the pocket when your o-line isn't holding up in pass protection. 

Also as somebody else pointed out I don't remember Gardner showing noticable symptoms against OSU.

The decision to start Morris in the first place was ill-advised, given the state of this o-line. Gardner, mistakes and all, still gives this team a better chance to win.

MGoBlue96

September 27th, 2014 at 9:15 PM ^

The leg to me was still an issue even before the possible concussion. Shane was clearly having trouble moving in the second half. Hoke was asking for trouble, when you leave a QB in who can't escape the pocket when your o-line isn't holding up in pass protection. 

Also as somebody else pointed out I don't remember Gardner showing noticable symptoms against OSU.

The decision to start Morris in the first place was ill-advised, given the state of this o-line. Gardner, mistakes and all, still gives this team a better chance to win.

SWPro

September 27th, 2014 at 9:12 PM ^

In the game with Gardner you could tell something was not right but he could walk to and from the sidelines. There were times when he would take a hard step or turn and you could something was wrong but he was able to walking normally.

 

Morris couldn't walk without visibly hobbling. He wasn't able to protect himself in the pocket with his movement.

 

THEN Morris takes an extremely hard hit to the chin and almost falls over waving off the sidelines.

 

If the medical staff evaluates Morris's leg and determines it's a sprain or a twist or even a break and he tells Hoke he wants to continue then I lighten up on Hoke. Give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

When they didn't check out him (with doctors) after the hit I was angry at the refs and the staff.

 

When they let him not only run a play but throw a pass after the hit I was furious.

 

When they let him back in after Gardners helmet came off, even for a running play, I was livid and wanted Hoke gone for that and nothing else.

 

Gardner has shown he is a tough kid and a competitor and has taken a beating. But he was never put in a situation like Morris was today.

KSmooth

September 27th, 2014 at 9:09 PM ^

Playing with a concussion is WAY more dangerous than playing with a broken foot.  Now I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions that Morris was concussed -- the staggering could have just as easily been from his leg injury -- but if it turns out that he was concussed, then leaving Morris out there was plain reckless.

AeonBlue

September 27th, 2014 at 9:23 PM ^

We'll never know if he was concussed for sure because they don't talk about injuries. And if it so happens that DG starts in the next game, we won't know for sure if it's because Morris is concussed or if the staff had a change of heart on whomever they were "exited about in practice" the most.

SysMark

September 27th, 2014 at 9:14 PM ^

The difference was the headshot Morris took.  They didn't even appear to be checking him.

IMO that was one of the cheapest, dirtiest shots I've seen in college football in a while.

991GT3

September 27th, 2014 at 9:16 PM ^

a qb in obvious distress and his lineman waiving to the sidelines to come and get him and a QB who has taken several hits but gets up and forms the huddle. DG did not know he had a broken toe and he did not show it during the entire OSU game. Watching Morris trying to tough it out but clearly in considerable pain with lineman signaling the sidelines is altogether different.

That said, I do agree those of us that want to see Hoke removed will seize an any opportunity to further our cause. But this is not one of them. Morris should have been pulled.

JamieH

September 28th, 2014 at 4:07 AM ^

Gardner knew he had a hurt foot--he didn't know how badly it was hurt.  As someone who had played sports on a stress-fractured foot I can tell you I didn't know for sure it was broken until I tried to drive my truck the next day and I couldn't put enough weight on it to push in the gas pedal.  But the day I broke it I finished the game.  So it wasn't "crazy" that Gardner was able to play through the pain and finish the game.

Morris looked like he was about to collapse out there.  For Hoke to be oblivious to this fact is practically criminally negligant.  I mean, if you are so out of it that you don't notice that your own QB is about 5 seconds away from collapsing on the football field, then what the hell are you doing as a coach?

PrincetonBlue

September 27th, 2014 at 9:17 PM ^

People can die from head injuries dude.  On the other hand, injuries to most other body parts aren't so bad and people can play through them somewhat (e.g. Matt Stafford, Cam Newton, Gardner, etc.)

MDot

September 27th, 2014 at 9:19 PM ^

Truthfully, I think the outrage has more to do with how bad we suck right now. If Michigan was 4-0 heading into this game, and 5-0 exiting it, the outrage wouldn't be the same.

 

Im not saying Hoke handled this situation correctly (he didnt), Im simply saying we suck right now, and everything is being over-analyzed right now (and rightfullly so).

MGoBlue96

September 27th, 2014 at 9:21 PM ^

Morris could not, and that left him exposed behind poor pass blocking. Hoke was just asking for Morris to take more shots, including the head shot, given those circumstances. Idiotic, plain and simple.

RJMAC

September 27th, 2014 at 9:34 PM ^

I don't like the comment from Hoke that If Morris couldn't go(play) he would have come to the sideline or gone down to a knee. That is not the players decision or choice when dealing with a noticeable head injury. He looked wobbly. If Hoke didn't see it, then at least have better communication with players and coaches next time so that when a player is woozy, they are removed from the game .

RJMAC

September 27th, 2014 at 9:22 PM ^

Different circumstances with Morris. His leg injury is probably a sprain. Sometimes you can play with it. He should have been taken out because it was affecting his throwing, which wasn't good already. The possible head injury is a definite take him out immediately protocol. Gardner's broken foot, I'm not sure it was diagnosed/discovered until after the game. If the coaches knowingly knew he had a broken foot during the game, then that's a no no as well.

SDCran

September 27th, 2014 at 9:28 PM ^

Keeping this strictly about the injuries, people are mad about BH not being psychic. Let's assume the anger is about the still-presumed head injury. BH had no reason to think it was a chin shot since there wasn't a targeting penalty called. When he saw Shane stumble, why would assume it was anything else other than the known leg injury? He didn't have the same TV replays we had. If it was as bad as everyone wants to think the refs would have stopped play and sent him off.

MGoCombs

September 27th, 2014 at 9:43 PM ^

I can't see points so I wouldn't be surprised if you're getting killed for this, but I had a similar thought. There was immediate moral outrage about leaving Morris in to get beat up, when all I heard about Gardner was "he's a tough kid" and "he can take it." I'm not saying blatant racism or anything like that, mainly because I think the circumstances were different. However, something just seemed off to me in the way we (yes I'd even include my white self) described our feelings seeing Morris get pummeled in a similar fashion to how we watched Gardner get pummeled several times.


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DetroitBlue

September 27th, 2014 at 9:48 PM ^

I don't recall ever seeing DG as dazed as Morris looked after the headshot. He's definitely taken some big time hits over the years, but I can't remember ever thinking he looked concussed or had a head injury. It might be a stupid distinction, but to me there's a difference between playing on a broken foot, or with broken ribs, or whatever, and playing concussed. Morris appeared to be concussed and that is why it's a bigger deal to me


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Cold War

September 27th, 2014 at 10:06 PM ^

 

1) Folks are at an all time high level of frustration with Hoke in general, and this is an outlet.

2) Folks pushed Morris to start, and they felt a level of connection and responsbility for him as a result. He became "their guy".

.

Reader71

September 28th, 2014 at 12:46 AM ^

If a guy hurts a leg, you can ask him if he can tough it out. If a guy hurts his head, you can't ask him anything, because his brain might not be right. Heads and necks are out of the players hands. There's the double standard. Now, there are some people saying that Shane should not have been out there anyways because his leg was hurt. That's bullshit. We never yanked Denard or Devin in such cases. Amazingly, I was pissing while this happened. I have no idea what any of this looked like.

taistreetsmyhero

September 28th, 2014 at 2:31 AM ^

there's no way hoke didn't notice he was woozy, or else why pull him in the middle of the series.

i could've sworn there was a rule where, if a player is shown to be concussed and allowed to play, then the team gets some sort of punishment by the ncaa? or am i just making that up?

Reader71

September 28th, 2014 at 10:58 AM ^

I'm sure I'll get hammered for this, but I can see how Hoke got it wrong. Morris had been hobbling on the leg, so its possible he didn't see it as wooziness, just a guy trying to play through a leg injury. The hit, as far as I can tell, wasn't a helmet to helmet hit. I could be wrong, but it looked like a helmet to the shoulder. Morris did motion to waive a substitution off, which would be dismissed if he was hit in the head, but because of the circumstances, I can see if they wanted to make the change based on the leg and then wanted to give him a chance to tough it out. This is going to read like an effort to pass the blame, because I've been a huge Hoke supporter, but its not: What the fuck are Paul Schmidt and Phil Johnson (the trainers) doing during this? Shane comes off, and it looks like Schmidty is just talking to him. After all that, no one seems to be concerned for his head. And Nuss smacks him on the helmet! No one seems to have any idea! I still think this is a huge fuckup and it falls on the head man. Just because I can see how it could have happened does not mean that its an excuse. But seeing it, anyone who is using it to call for a firing is clearly just pissed with the output. If this happened to a 4-1 team, there would be no outcry. Just a bunch of warriors trying to do their job, and mistakes were made. Empathy is missing. I can't see how someone looks at that and says it was anything other than a disastrous mistake that thankfully wasn't compounded.

Tater

September 28th, 2014 at 3:39 AM ^

What if it was David Brandon who decided that Morris would play today?  Brady Hoke certainly had the look of someone who was really pissed at his boss all day.  Maybe Hoke was so pissed that he wasn't paying attention to whether or not Morris looked OK.  

Bottom line: I don't think hBrady Hoke would ever compromise a player's heath on purpose.

maizenbluenc

September 28th, 2014 at 8:53 AM ^

Since Hoke has been here, there has been increasing ineptitude on offense. Whether it is due to youth. small mistakes, execution, or play calling, or all four, it doesn't matter. The quarterbacks in particular, the running back, and the wide receivers are getting killed out there - week in and week out. This year, and last.

To some extent, we were pissed about Gardner getting killed all last season, and poor damned Toussant. We aimed (maybe misguidedly) our frustration at Borges and Funk. We got Borges' head and thought we'd be better with Nuss.

Now it is just obvious that the real problem is in a management system where the head coach meets with the OC twice a week, whether they need to our not - and while that seems hands off - remains loyal to his position coaches and sets an overall strategy for the offense that is simply not attainable with the young personnel on hand. Hoke does not recognize the need, nor either direct or agree to the changes necessary to enable this set of offensive players to be successful.

If for nothing else, I think the entire offensive coaching staff (at the very least the tight end coach and the line coach) and Hoke should be gone for fielding an offense that puts the players they purport to care bout in extreme danger week in and week out.

FWIW - having Nuss on the field is not working. We need a QB coach and an OC. Rich Rod had McGee in the box to read the opposing teams defense, recognize down and distance, sense momentum, and call plays. Rich - with his headset on - sent those plays and checks in and added his sense or quick checks. Smith was on the field to coach up the QBs as they came off based on what was sent down from the box. Shane may have been pulled if there had been a decision maker in the box. Of course that would depend on Brady Hokes headphone GA getting the message to Brady Hoke fast enough to get him out.