kmd

August 30th, 2009 at 1:19 AM ^

Engineering and Business are their own colleges separate from LSA. So it's not like they can say "oh shit, I'm in over my head with all this extra practice time" and switch to underwater basket weaving right away. You have to wait at least a year and go through some administrative stuff. Even if they aren't struggling enough to justify transferring colleges (and I don't think they are, B-school has pretty high standards for admission and AFAIK Omameh was doing fine in engineering), it's not unreasonable to say the thought of switching to something easier might have crossed their mind if they had started out in LSA.

kmd

August 30th, 2009 at 1:48 AM ^

I think Kinesiology changed their standards recently so you have to reapply after sophomore year to get a major, since there was such a disparity between the athletes and the other students and they wanted to strengten their academic reputation, so I believe some of those players that started in Kinesiology might have eventually been funneled back into LSA. I'm not sure what the rules are about cross-enrolling with LSA from Kinesiology, but students might have been doing that to prepare for their inevitable transfer back to LSA, and only started in Kinesiology because of lower admissions standards and reserved spots for athletes.

But even with that, I think Kinesiology is actually is the best option for athletes. It seems like it should be the path with the most chance of success for students that have devoted their life to athletics and very well might pursue a career related to athletics.

jmblue

August 30th, 2009 at 1:07 AM ^

The record-level GPA could be explained by RR bringing in "his kind of player" that takes nothing but cupcake classes so they can spend an excessive amount of time on football.

No it couldn't. The vast majority of the 2008 team (which achieved that record GPA) was recruited by Lloyd Carr.

kmd

August 30th, 2009 at 1:28 AM ^

Even if the players were recruited under Lloyd, the freshmen had to choose to stay under Rich Rod, and Lloyd never really got a chance to instill them with any ideals about the importance of academics and challenging yourself and things like that. The freshmen (which includes RR's recruits) are probably the ones that have the biggest impact on GPA, since intro level classes are generally graded hard and upper level classes are graded easily, and they're also the ones that are still adjusting to college. Additionally, everybody was heavily encouraged to "buy into the system". If "buying into the system" involves excessive amounts of practice time, there's the implication you have to take easier classes to balance things out.

Meeechigan Dan

August 30th, 2009 at 7:25 AM ^

This is horseshit. You are simply witnessing the standard at major D1 athletic programs - a suffocating football obligation that impacts academics - and somehow painting RR as having diabolically kicked it up a notch. Bullshit. He requires what all D1 coaches require.

Zonereadstretch

August 30th, 2009 at 12:40 AM ^

Significant substance?

While relating to “recruiting” violations (as reported back in May) as opposed to our “practice” violations, significant substance would be coming out and saying "I don't view it as a bad thing. If we suddenly had zero violations, I would have to ask myself what the coaches were hiding," said Doug Archie, OSU's associate athletics director for compliance and camps.

http://media.www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2009/05/20/…

Wolverdore

August 29th, 2009 at 10:55 PM ^

Just remember how big of a deal the whole AAN series with Carty was at the time. Ultimately nothing but bad press came out of it. If anyone is well adjusted to bad press and dealing with inaccuracies in the press, it is RR and his team. I hope this will all pass as not that big of thing. No other schools will want to get involved with finger pointing as they will be next on the hit parade. I can imagine a lot of copy cat investigations upcoming.

blueblueblue

August 29th, 2009 at 11:00 PM ^

I am not convinced about the timing complaint. Think about the timeline. First, the journalists have to get some idea that things might be amiss. Summer workouts have to actually happen - the violations had to have time to occur. At this point are already nearing the mid to latter part of the summer. Then they have to get interviews from players. As a researcher, I know that interviews take weeks to set up and execute. I would say that there is a good chance Freep could not have reported the violations any sooner. They had to first get the idea that violations were occurring, then get the interviews. That process takes time - often months.

Second - when would you all have liked the article to be released - next week right before the game? Before the ND game? Would it have been better if they would have put out the article last week? Why? What if they were still waiting on that last interview or two to help build their case?

Journalists often serve as a check on a system. Recruiting violations are found at some schools, other violations are found at others. It is silly, even somewhat immature, to sit here and think that we got some kind of raw deal, to blame it on the media. The world is not out to get UM football. We have been hearing about violations all summer at Alabama, USC, FSU, etc. This shit happens. UM is a high profile school, it is not surprising that some violations are found here (hell, it would not be surprising if more were found); especially if so many schools commit them.

Meeechigan Dan

August 29th, 2009 at 11:04 PM ^

Good points, but while "the world" is not out to get UM football, RR is despised by many in the Michigan establishment. He doesn't fit, isn't accepted and they have reveled in his failures and the defections of players who couldn't cut it.

blueblueblue

August 29th, 2009 at 11:12 PM ^

What makes you say that? Who is this "Michigan establishment"? I am honestly curious as to whether there are reports or information, or even rumors, coming from inside the program regarding folks who are not supporting RR. Not to sound naive, I am sure he has his detractors - but to the point of them wanting the program to take a fall?

GatrHatr

August 29th, 2009 at 11:02 PM ^

And I am getting a weird vibe. Some of the quotes from the players struck me as -
"I've never had to do this before and am not sure what to think about it because I am a stud and nobody has ever told me what to do."

I'm sure there was extra work done beyond the NCAA rules. I would feel fairly certain in saying that there were no actual violations committed. By that I mean that there were no coaches present that were not supposed to be there. I assume there will be an investigation which will bring negative light to the team. I just have a feeling that no violations will be found....IMHE

Hannibal.

August 29th, 2009 at 11:05 PM ^

The current players who talked to the team remained anonymous becuase they were afraid of retaliation, but what about the former players? Rodriguez can't retaliate against them, so why did they remain anonymous eh?

jrt336

August 29th, 2009 at 11:05 PM ^

This is so stupid. I don't get why the FP (and almost everyone else) is hating on Michigan. They're basically saying "RR + Michigan are bad, look at St. Dantonio and MSU. They're the clean program like UM used to be. Now they have that scummy RR."

jamiemac

August 29th, 2009 at 11:06 PM ^

Devin vs Ricardo: A live blog we cant lose

Yeah, until the Freep published a violation story right in the middle of it.

When are people gonna make that connection to the curse of the Live Blog. Or, are we not able to joke about this?

marc_from_novi

August 29th, 2009 at 11:08 PM ^

No actual specific evidence is provided that makes it clear the extra time spent was mandatory. I wish all of the wimps would just leave the program once and for all. I find it quite interesting that RR is trying to build one of the most significant walk-on programs in the country. Who in their right mind would be a walk-on at UM if RR required them to break NCAA rules on time commitment?

karpodiem

August 29th, 2009 at 11:29 PM ^

so why are you posting links to the original story when a poster comments the original story lacked any validated/named evidence of the workouts being mandatory, as if re-reading it suddenly invokes some revelation?

honestly I know you are trying hang out here and you may have a thing for Michigan or whatever but I'm really kind of annoyed that you are taking this the next level in trying to assert there is validity to the suggestion that these workouts were mandatory; as I have read it, these accusations were made by unnamed sources, and were pushed forward by a individual who a easily discernible vendetta against Michigan.

Irish

August 29th, 2009 at 11:36 PM ^

"Rodriguez required his players to arrive at Schembechler Hall by noon the day after games. They would then go through a full weight-lifting session, followed by individual position meetings and a full-team meeting. Then, at night, they would hold a full practice. Often, they would not leave the practice facility until after 10 p.m.

In September 2008, three weeks into Rodriguez’s first season, senior defensive tackle Terrance Taylor talked about his previous Sunday. “It was, like, 10 hours,” Taylor said. “Everybody was like, ‘Where were you at?’ ‘I was at practice all day.’ My parents were still here. They were like, ‘Where were you at?’ I was like, ‘I was at the building all day.’ ”

In the "Sundays were Miserable" section of the article

karpodiem

August 29th, 2009 at 11:43 PM ^

Again, I don't think you comprehend what I said.

Rosenberg asserts that these were mandatory. Rosenberg asserts quite a bit of ridiculous shit. Nothing in that quote you pasted asserts it was mandatory. That bullet list includes claims made by an unnammed source. AN UNNAMED SOURCE. IN THE QUOTES YOU SEE MADE BY PLAYERS, IS THERE ANY REFERENCE TO THE TIME PUT IN BEING MANDATORY?

Because the players were there all day does _NOT_ imply they were mandatory. Why do you keep suggesting this is the case???

Irish

August 29th, 2009 at 11:53 PM ^

When the writer says "Rodriguez required" it makes me think it was mandatory. He doesn't say Rodriguez required after every event that went on on sundays but I think it can be expanded across the rest of that paragraph. Adding the quotes from the player would lead me to believe that is a correct assumption to make.

JT4104

August 29th, 2009 at 11:59 PM ^

That is quite the assumption to make. For a team meeting on sunday after the game he requiered you to be there at Noon....

What honestly is so wrong with that, I'm pretty sure most meetings have a start time and if someone stays after said meeting I dont see that as mandatory!

Irish

August 30th, 2009 at 12:45 AM ^

No I don't think there is anything wrong with a required meeting that starts at noon on Sunday, assuming that meeting doesn't conflict with NCAA regulations.

Yeah I agree if someone or a group of someone's say hey want to get a workout in before heading out to do whatever, there again is no problem. But with the quotes from the players and the other items in the article it doesn't seem to have happened that way.

karpodiem

August 30th, 2009 at 12:01 AM ^

Your belief that Michael Rosenberg (if you are unaware of this individual's history with Michigan, just do some Googl'ing) would write anything truly subjective about Michigan, especially when utilizing unnamed sources and then extrapolating unverified claims (your assumption that the 10 hour Sunday session is indeed verifiable in your estimation, on the foundation of an unnamed source asserting that they were in fact, mandatory) shows exactly where your 'beliefs' on the issue lie.

Irish

August 30th, 2009 at 12:23 AM ^

No I am not a subscriber to Rosenberg, I came to the understanding he isn't well liked after reading the first few posts in this thread. There is too much in this article for me to just say oh its someone just looking for website hits. Its not as though he just said "OMG! I just saw a coach at a voluntary practice I better write about it."

He says he went and interviewed "Past or current players and parents", I have no reason to believe he would make up that key point of the entire article just to write a 1000 word essay on things he wanted to further makeup about violations to the NCAA's practice policy.

karpodiem

August 30th, 2009 at 12:36 AM ^

You want 'reason to believe'? Come on man, do your homework. Quit being so lazy. Indulge me with some research and read some of his past articles written of Michigan within the last year. Make him earn the benefit of your doubt by at least reading his previous work.

Actually I take that back. You should/will have reason to believe he trumped up this claim if you actually take some time and look what his history is.

Brodie

August 30th, 2009 at 1:55 AM ^

His history with Michigan? You mean writing on the Daily? Or writing a book that makes Bo look like a Saint compared to crazy old Woody?

I wish people would read between the lines and see what's going on. Nobody is anti-Michigan, this is about RichRod.

Irish

August 30th, 2009 at 12:10 AM ^

You should read more that one post before coming to a judgement of me, a good example would be my first post in the thread where I originally stated that I was pretty skeptical of the article posted by the original poster. I did edit it after reading the expanded version also linked to in that post.

Irish

August 30th, 2009 at 1:26 AM ^

From ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4431717
"One former player who started for Michigan last season told ESPN Saturday night that the report was accurate.

The player, who asked not to be identified for fear of repercussions from fans, said in-season Sundays at the football facility lasted from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m., including a one-hour lunch. That would be an 11-hour day. The NCAA daily limit is four hours, the weekly limit 20.

The same player said required offseason workouts included three-hour lifts on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays and two hours of speed and agility on Tuesdays and Thursday. That's a total of 13 hours; the NCAA limit is eight hours of required workouts.

This player said he would tell the Big Ten or NCAA what players were required to do and believes most of his former teammates would, as well."

Don

August 30th, 2009 at 1:48 AM ^

If this player's allegations are true, then it's difficult to believe that Bill Martin or the AD in general didn't know about this. I don't think it's very easy to hide about 100 players spending 12 hours at a University facility during the season.

Of course, the crux of things may depend on whether they were "mandatory." Regardless, when a former player says he's willing to go to the Big Ten or the NCAA to spill the beans, that's going to have legs of its own.

I'm not assuming the story in the Freep is accurate, but if RR and staff were indeed blowing past the time limits as blatantly as the story alleges, it was dumb, dumb, dumb, since it's pretty hard to hide.

Ugh. It's hard to fight the bad feeling that the anti-RR people in the AD have finally got their big stick. It would be ironic as hell if it was RR who handed it to them himself.