Football Discussion: Team with more talent: 2016 or 2018?
Non-news based off-season "I miss football" discussion.
Subject says it. Which team has more talent: 2016 or 2018? Weaponized Chase Winovich and weaponized Rashan Gary and Devin Bush and Aubrey Solomon and Long and DPJ and Tarik Black and Shea Patterson and Karan Higdon? Or Peppers and Hurst and Jake Butt and Darboh and Chesson and Wormley and Taco Charlton?
I know this team is still fresh-ish in comparison to that team of seniors, but I see a similar level of talent in the two squads. I think 2016 gets the nod, but only barely. I think by the end of the season the gap is basically nonexistent.
2016 was better in some position groups and 2018 is better in some position groups. The difference is qb. In 2016 our humble prayer was that our qb would not lose the game for us. In 2018 we have a qb who is so much better that we can reasonably hope that he actually wins some games for us. Therefore overall QB play makes 2018 better.
Which team is faster, stronger, can make more noise on a national scale? I’d argue that this year’s team is better. This team has defensive playmakers at every level, they’re faster, and if Shea can live up to his billing, this team can beat ANYONE on its schedule.
Absolutely anyone. We almost beat OSU with John O’Korn. We can beat them with Shea Patterson.
receiving core. Darbo and Chesson, Butt, Perry, Bunting (he replaced Butt on a dime).
Our corner back core will be hare pressed to replace Jordan Lewis and Channing Stribling. 2016 was a great year.
That said, lets beat OSU 2018!!
Agree. Higdon is the best UM RB in a long time.
QB was a wildcard in 2016 too. I would say Higdon and Evans are both better than Smith. I would also say that Black and DPJ have shown at least as much skill as Chesson and Darboh, with ceilings that are far, far higher.
Black was making some incredible catches and moves. So yeah, having him back helps a lot. He's definitely as talented as the 2016 receivers. DPJ will be as well.
Sorry to bust the illusion but it was done on an emulator where you can slow down game time.
Damn, I've always sucked at this game, haven't I?
WR and TE are hard to judge because the QB play was so bad last year. Even so, the TE's were pretty darn productive.
McKeon+Gentry last year= 43 catches for 561 yds
Butt in 2015 (going into 16) 51 catches for 654 yds
In 2016, Butt had 46 for 546 playing along side Darboh and Chesson (1362 yds between them)
TE in 2018 is simply not close to Jake Butt.
You're comparing the groups lol, not individual players to Jake Butt. And you just proved my point: 43 catches for 561 yards (with vastly worse QB play) vs 46 catches for 546 yards. So thank you.
I think this is the spiciest hot take of the thread yet. I don't think I agree. Peppers was so fucking disruptive.
I mean, I hope this ends up being true by the end of the season, but damn, Peppers was in every ball-carrier's face all the damn time. I just don't recall seeing that level of impact with Hudson last year.
Am I wrong?
Peppers was hurt by the way he was used to cover up for the lack of athleticism at a lot of positions on the 2016 team. It was essentially his 2nd season after missing most of 2014, and he was playing a new position in a new defense. On top of that he had KR, PR, and saw plays on offense. So while his athleticism allowed him to do a lot, he was lacking in the technique department and it showed in his coverage. I don't know that you can fully compare the two because Peppers erased the screen game in a way I've never seen before and that doesn't show up on film.
Position by position? Hard to separate talent from proven ability because we have to project quite a bit. Plus, 1 is subjective and the other we can look at stats for back up.
2016 DT > 2018 - Glasgow and Hurst are better than Dumfor and Solomon. 2016 depth was better.
2016 DEs ~ 2018 DEs - Taco was a 1st round pick and had 10 sacks in basically 10 games. Gary has more talent but Taco was no slouch. Winovich and Wormley are different players, but equally talented? Wormley was physically just bigger and therefore had more "talent" but Winovich has ridiculous stats from last year. Thing is 2016 had more depth because of Winovich and Gary.
2018 LBs > 2016 LBs - Gedeon was very solid, but Bush is better. Whoever replaces McCray will be equally or more talented, just less experienced. Peppers and Hudson are close enough to not overcome the difference between Gedeon and Bush. Though Peppers busted less than Hudson IMO.
2016 CBs > 2018 CBs - I mean, Jourdan Lewis was probably the best CB Michigan has had since Woodson (maybe Hall or Jackson). Hill is very good and so is Long, but neither are Lewis level and Stribling is about equal to Long. 2018 depth is better because Clark went down and we know Watson is a lot better now than he was then. Plus, Thomas looks to break out.
2018 WRs > 2016 WRs in that DPJ and Black have the potential to be better, but Chesson and Darboh were proven. Depth wise 2018 is better.
2016 TEs > 2018 TEs. Butt was Butt. The depth behind him wasn't great though. 2018 has McKeon and Gentry, but neither are Butt level good, yet.
2016 OL > 2018 OL. This will probably be hotly contested, Magnuson was better than any RT we've seen. Newsome (going off beginning of the year) was better than anything now. 2016 interior was less bust prone (though they busted a lot) but Cole was a proven C while Ruiz might have the overall talent.
2018 RBs > 2016 RBs. Pretty sure this is obvious. Smith could pass block, that's about all he did better than Higdon or Evans.
2018 QBs > 2016. Speight did well but was limited. JOK was his back up. That should be enough.
There is no proven talent at WR coming into this year vs 3 NFL draft picks after 2016. I can see how you might think the talent is there, but we had no good pass catchers last year. Mc Keon looks okay, Butt not as good as what we had in '16.
If you could trade Butt, Darboh and Chesson for this set of WRs/TEs for the game against ND, would you do it?
In my mind its not close. Black was the only guy who did anything as a WR last year and he is recovering from a season ender. There is upside, but right now "ain't done nothin" competely applies.