Fitz/Hawthorne/Pass Interference and other questions

Submitted by James Burrill Angell on September 11th, 2011 at 9:15 AM
A couple questions to the Board if you don't mind as i overnighted Friday and tailgated since dawn. 1) I was at the game and my seats kept me from seeing that pass interference on ND's drive. People said the call was legit because of blown coverage. Who missed their assignment. Thought I saw coaches and players squabbling with Kovacs. 2) equally my seats prevented me from seeing how the ND receiver got so open on their last touchdown. Any thoughts on what happened on coverage there. 3) where was Fitz Toussant? 4) brandin Hawthorne, where have you been all my life. Great game kid. Amazing game. Never seen one like it and likely never will again. Side note. When I got back to my tailgate there was a car full of dame fans next to me. As we're both packing up our respective stuff I see this guy take off his ND shirt and put it on the ground, go into his truck, pull out a bottle of some form, pour the contents on the shirt, strike a match and lights the tanker on fire,then gets in his truck and drives away leaving the smoldering shirt. I do in fact feel for ND fan right now.



September 11th, 2011 at 9:20 AM ^

1. It was PI. JT Floyd nearly yanked the jersey off of Floyd's back. Probably saved a TD in the process.

2. Cover 3 with the FS (MRob) at the LOS. He couldn't get back to center field in time it looked like.

3. Banged up in practice this week.


September 11th, 2011 at 9:27 AM ^

1)If you are talking about the one they called on Avery that put the ball on the 2, I thought that call was questionable at best. I was sitting in the 3rd row of that corner. If they called that, they absolutely should have called PI when ND intercepted that pass in the opposite endzone. I watched that one on our beautiful HD scoreboard. Awesome replay machine, but come one 2 weeks in a row where the down and distance is constantly behind or not accurate, and the play by play scroll needs a spell check. Sorry, I digress.

2) That was a blown assignment. In the presser after the game, Hoke said they tried to show a look and then get out of it. Well, that didn't work.

3) Fitz mentioned in the practice video that Fitz was banged up. The internets didn't expect him to play yesterday morning, and he didn't.

4) Hawthorne did have himself a game didn't he?


September 11th, 2011 at 9:40 AM ^

My question is what was with the placement on Avery's PI. It was a play from the 22 yard line, and I thought the PI was committed in the end zone which should have the ball placed at the 2? Or is that just an NFL rule. And why was it 15 yards instead of half the distance to the goal line? It was in fact placed on the 7 yard line.


September 11th, 2011 at 9:44 AM ^

The maximum a pass interference can advance the ball in the NCAA is 15 yards.  The interference was in the endzone, so the ball would be placed on the 2, except the "maximum advancement" rule came into effect, so the ball could only be moved from the 22 to the 7. 

Half the distance doesn't apply here, since the penalty is a "spot foul"--the offended team gets the ball at the spot of the foul (with the 15-yard limitation).



September 11th, 2011 at 12:00 PM ^

Well, neither.  I try to be familiar with all of the rules (the TV announcers rarely know what they're talking about), and I remember back to when this particular rule was changed--as a result of a questionable pass interference call against Michigan in the Michigan-Notre Dame game in (I think) 1980 that went for 40 or 50 yards and set up Notre Dame's game-winning field goal.  They changed the rule in 1981 to limit a pass interference penalty to 15 yards.



September 11th, 2011 at 9:47 AM ^

My mistake. It was a standard 15 yard penalty. It was not on the 2. Last night I could have sworn I heard the official say that because the PI was in the endzone they were going to place it at the 2 and giving myself a WTF did I hear this dude correctly when it was placed at the 7 or so.   It was freaking loud in there, yo.

One Inch Woody…

September 11th, 2011 at 11:21 AM ^

From my recollection, Avery did not turn to see the ball, yes, and he was playing physically. However, he only initiated full contact AFTER the ball had touched floyd. You are allowed to have one arm on the receiver as long as it is not on the inside arm of the receiver.

That's like saying football's a contact sport but just don't touch each other at all or that's a penalty.

Solid coverage by Avery and Floyd all night long. Michael Floyd killed us when he lined up in the slot though.


September 11th, 2011 at 11:35 AM ^

i agree completely.  avery was not guilty of PI.  he did not have his head turned and that's why the call was made.  but the rule is that you can get away with a little contact if your head is turned.  avery didn't make contact at all.  for instance, if the receiver had made an over the shoulder catch, his back would have been to the ball too and then if avery hit the receiver after the ball made contact with the WR, that wouldn't be pass interference. 

Mr. Yost

September 11th, 2011 at 11:36 AM ^

Floyd's was clearly PI, however, I'd like to see if the other Floyd, Michael Floyd pushed off as JT was clearly exclaiming.


Avery's would've been PI, but he missed Floyd (and the ball)...he just didn't turn around after getting beat and the ref through the flag. But replay after replay you could see it. You even saw Hoke damn near in the endzone after watching the replay arguing the call. It was a horrible one. Avery really didn't even touch him until the ball was well by Floyd and they were falling to the ground.


September 11th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^

Michael Floyd was definitely pushing off quite a bit, most noticeably on the 2-and-25 completion for 24.9 yards.  On that play the spot looked pretty bad to me too.  It looke like he was about a yard short, not the 6 inches where they spotted it (and they barely converted the 3-and-6-inches.


September 11th, 2011 at 9:51 AM ^

Got literally no push on running plays.  Worrisome.  I don't know how much was the fault of the RBs.  Hopkins worries me, because that fumble was inexcusable. 

The Avery PI call in the endzone was not PI.  The Floyd call on the last drive was clearly PI.

Hawthorne had a monster second half.  Our defense is not much better talent wise compared to last year, but they are stronger in fundamental tackling, and the scheme is better.



September 11th, 2011 at 9:57 AM ^

Are the jump balls by design.  Did our coaches see something in the ND secondary that made them think we could be successful with simply throwing it up?  Denard had to have thrown 6-7.


September 11th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^

I wouldn't necessarily call them 'jump balls'. Notre Dame was playing man to man almost the entire night. The defenders had their back to the ball and couldn't see when the ball was in the air. All the receivers had to do was locate the ball.




September 11th, 2011 at 10:03 AM ^

Where was Herron? I know Brian removed the veil on his WM performance and showed us he really played like poo. Maybe the coaches saw the same thing? Does anyone know?


September 11th, 2011 at 11:26 AM ^

I noticed CJ for one play in the first quarter. There could have been more, I really wasn't seeking him out. However, on that play, he lined up incorrectly. Marvin Robinson played the rest of the game. Marvin may have started for all I know. I was more focused on the DL and LB play at the start of the game.


September 11th, 2011 at 10:13 AM ^

Vincent Smith should be our running back. Everyone needs to stop worrying about home run ability and give credit to the guy who busts his balls getting positive yards on every play. He also catches the ball and picks up blitzes every time.


September 11th, 2011 at 11:22 AM ^

I thought the hit on Denard was pretty late and forceful enough to earn that call.

I'm definitely in the minority on this but I thought the Avery call was correct. There wasn't really contact but he didn't know where the ball was and was trying to block the receiver's facemask--Unless they've changed that rule, I assumed that's why it was called.


September 11th, 2011 at 10:22 AM ^

Avery pi could have easily been a good no call so I thought we got jobbed on that one. Branding Hawthorne should definitely start now as he showed he is a player. RB situation is murky at best.


September 11th, 2011 at 1:12 PM ^

I watched the defensive holding replay a few times on FanVision. WH got chop blocked, but then grabbed the pants of another DL trying to step over him while he was lying on his back. It was kind of bullshit, but probably not a total phantom call. The face-guarding PI, on the other hand, is not a college rule AFAIK.