A few clarifying facts about Oregon-Arizona

Submitted by SalvatoreQuattro on October 3rd, 2014 at 6:25 AM

Why does this require it's own post? Because some people are going to suggest that Zona' performance is "proof" of RR's status as the next Saban.

Here's why it it questionable.


Oregon's OL is flat out atrocious due to injuries. They gave up 7 sacks to Washington State's crappy defense. If WSU can cause havoc in Oregon's backfield than that suggests Oregon isn't very good at this blocking thing. In all honesty we ought to have been on upset alert after Oregon struggled to beat what is a bad Washington State team.


Secondly, Arizona is 75th in the nation(after tonight) in scoring defense. That is atrocious and reminiscent to what RR did at UM.So contrary to what some have suggested RR still does not have a good defense.Casteel is not the miracle worker some have made him out to be.

 It's about fit and RR fits better in the Pac 12 than in the Big Ten. RR's emphasis is on speed while the Big Ten is size and power.

In having said all that it has to feel good for RR for his team to flourish whilst UM's goes Three Mile Island. The injustice he was subjected to by some UM "supporters" while head coach has to have  Rodriguez' inner Nelson express itself.


UM is an embarrassment. Arizona is seemingly on the rise. What a perfect storm of suck this is for Dave Brandon and Michigan fans.


Mr. Yost

October 3rd, 2014 at 8:43 AM ^

Because I was reading my post on here from the year Hoke was hired (had to be like my 10th post ever on here).

I said "If Brandon really wanted to be innovative, he'd be the first to hire two head coaches. He'd have a co-Head Coach for offense (Rich Rodriguez) and a co-Head Coach for defense (Brady Hoke). Offensive decisions run through Rich Rod, Defensive decisions run through Hoke, Team decisions are shared and if there is a disagreement, they have and Associate AD for Football Operations."

Looking back on it, I was just daydreaming outloud...but I wonder if we'd be in a better position today.


October 3rd, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^

The answer is no you can't.  You can't play at the pace they do AND have a great D, or atleast I haven't seen it yet.  The spread teams have the defense on the field too long for them to be great.  Last night said more about Oregon and the attrition on the offensive line than anything.  They could not keep there D off the field or in spread terms, I guess, they didn't run enough plays.  Plus they were a stupid penalty away from making it very interesting. 


October 3rd, 2014 at 7:37 AM ^

RR win conference championships before Michigan... got to Michigan and was treated like shit from day 1... had no chance at Michigan unless he did what no coach could do under the same circumstances... was fired by an arrogant prick of an AD... got to Arizona and beats good team on the road when B1G's best team couldn't... stubborn Michigan fans continue to refuse to accept that they suck as human beings.

What did I miss?


October 3rd, 2014 at 8:05 AM ^

Our offense, behind a healty O line - versus Oregon's atrocious injured one - is ranked 104th in the nation. I'll say that again: The University of Michigan's offense is ranked 104th in the nation. There is no way we'd put 24 on Arizona's defense.

Our "special" (according to Mattison) defense is ranked 49th.

So yeah - ha, ha - the joke is on the Arizona fans ...

We - The University of Michigan fan and donor base - are getting our just desserts right now. We deserve this. We fucked ourselves with this Michigan Man bull shit. Dantonio was right: "Pride comes before the fall".


October 3rd, 2014 at 8:29 AM ^

For example, this lovely piece eviscerating us this morning, titled "Rich Rod Sticks It To Oregon, Michigan":


Here's the lede: 

"It would officially be the worst week in recent Michigan history
except the week isn't over yet.

The Wolverines still have to play Rutgers on Saturday."

What gets me is that Yost came from down the street from RR (and was the game's greatest innovator in his time). Lloyd came from        farther away, Tennessee. WVU coach Don Nehlen, RR's mentor, worshipped Bo. The Michigan Man excuse that drove RR away was purest garbage. 

Now 90% of college football is using the offense RR invented, and the world's most reductive and stupid reasoning is still being deployed to keep us talking--but NOT really playing--dinosaurball. And all to assuage the ego of an AD who couldn't get in the game as a player but has utter control now. 

Take Brady's increasing record of failure and chart it against RR's increasing record of success (RR told MarySue and Martin that the first few years would be hell, and realized he had no players after his first few practices. The bare cupboard was very very real.) Which coach do you think most would feel bore more promise?



Mr. Yost

October 3rd, 2014 at 8:46 AM ^

That's easy...but that doesn't mean it's good. It just means Rich Rod shows more promise than Hoke.

Charlie Weiss may be the only coach in America that shows less promise than Hoke does right now. So what's your point?

I could name 15 awful to medicore coaches right now that show more promise than Hoke.


October 3rd, 2014 at 11:06 AM ^

I think RR likely has an 11-2 record in 2011 if he was not fired, just like Hoke did. I say that though with the caveat that with a Mattison level DC (which he was unlikely to bring in) that team could have been a National Campionship contender with what likely would have been one of the best offeneses of all time. I was one of the few at the time that wanted RR to get one more year to prove what he could really do. I was sad to not get to see that offense. I feel somewhat vindicated now. Of course I would have rathered had Hoke prove me wrong. 


October 3rd, 2014 at 9:40 AM ^

Rich Rod has beaten a top 10 team for now 3 years in a row. Hoke's Michigan has never beaten a ranked team on the road. These are facts.

When RR got canned, weren't we all saying how gaudy stats or position rankings didn't matter, you just had to win? Well, right now Arizona is just winning more than Michigan.


October 3rd, 2014 at 10:56 AM ^

depends as much these days upon the style of offense that you play--spread results in more possessions, more scores etc.  Michigan basketball is a fair comparison.  We haven't and likely never will rank high in defensive stats under Beilein, but we play a defense that fits our personel and system.  And that glorious offense.....

Plus, you've got the fun factor.


October 3rd, 2014 at 10:47 AM ^

People are always quoting FEI in their RichRod arguments because it's how you make it seem like his offense was kickass his whole tenure here while glossing over how bad it looked against good opponents.

His final year he got 17 on MSU, didn't score on Wisconsin till it was already 24-0, 7 on OSU, and then only 14 against Miss St. Just saying we were 5th in FEI is a oversimplification which conveniently ignores that the offense was just bad against teams that were any sort of challenge


October 3rd, 2014 at 11:27 AM ^

I want to say I remember Roundtree having two absolutely brutal drops in the Gator Bowl that were surefire touchdowns.  I'm nearly positive there was one and want to say there were two.

Not that 52-28 is much better than 52-14, mostly because of that whole 52 thing.


October 3rd, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^

but it was 24-0 at half. thats nice that we scored more against MSU and Wisconsin but we still lost both games so who really cares? Just because Hoke sucks doesnt mean we get to revise RichRod's tenure and reimagine it as being not an equivalent (or worse) disaster

Evil Empire

October 3rd, 2014 at 9:06 AM ^

Beating a top-5 team on the road is so far above anything that Rodriguez accomplished at Michigan that the gauge goes tilt.  Road record: 4-11.  Road record against ranked teams: 0-6, average score 42-16, with only one close game (Iowa 30 Michigan 28, 2009).  Hell, his home record against ranked teams was 2-5, with all of the losses by double digits.  The wins were against teams that ended up unranked (7-6 Wisconsin, 6-6 Notre Dame).  Rodriguez had to go.  Unfortunately that decision took Brandon way too long and it may have been the last good move he made.


October 3rd, 2014 at 9:53 AM ^

No he didn't. Give him the money to go get Casteel like you gave Hoke to get Mattison and you still have at least an 11-2 team seeing as how you have a coach who knows how to run an offense with the pieces you have. Then you have senior Denard and a couple years of Gardner. No way would RichRod have been worse off from a record standpoint. Of course, the other option is to go hire someone with a mediocre track record at best and give them support far beyond anything the previous coach got and still be in the same spot in year 4 of the new regime as you were in year 2 of the old one. 

Space Coyote

October 3rd, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^

The major issues for the defense during his tenure were not DC related. Certainly GERG running a scheme he didn't fully understand didn't help, but the bigger issue by far was position level coaching. Braithwaite (currently at Chattannoga), Gibson (well documented), Tall (currently at Charlotte), those were not good position coaches. The best position coach on that defense was actually GERG coaching the LBs.

A single DC change wasn't going to fix many of the issues that defense had.

Space Coyote

October 3rd, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^

I don't know how he'd do in a non-spread system, I think a lot of his techniques that he tends to teach are highly spread favorable, so I don't know if you can just plug and play. But I also can't say that you couldn't plug and play, because I have never talked to him or seen him in another system.

But he has shown very well at all stops and did a good job while at Michigan. If you're a spread coach, you could do a lot worse than Frey, no doubt.


October 3rd, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^

You're probably right that just bringing in Jeff Casteel and keeping the same assistant coaches wouldn't have been a perfect cure-all.  However, if Casteel was given carte blanche to hire/retain as he saw fit, which probably isn't that hard to imagine happening, then I really think that Michigan's defense would've improved enough to result in double-digit victories.