Fed investigation at MSU is, in fact, related to basketball player incident

Submitted by guthrie on February 28th, 2014 at 6:18 PM

There has been some discussion about whether the federal investigation at MSU was started the way the investigation at UM started.  In other words, was it initiated by a complaint about the alleged assault by basketball players in 2010 similar to how it was initiated at UM by a complaint about the assault by Gibbons?

The RCMB (I know, I know) has been quick to point out that MSU's investigation is merely housekeeping and has nothing to do with the specific incident involving the basketball players.  Turns out, that's not true.

By the way, the names of the guys accused in 2010 at MSU have never actually been publicly released.  That's why I simply refer to them as basketball players.  They were described only as freshmen on the basketball team and MSU had four freshmen in that class.  We all think we know who the two guys were but there has NEVER been an official statement revealing their names. 

 

http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/lansing/article-9937-breaking-msu-probe.html

Comments

Spar-Dan

February 28th, 2014 at 8:41 PM ^

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20140228/NEWS01/302280037/MS…

"In a statement issued in October of 2010, Ingham County Prosecutor Stuart Dunnings III noted that assistant prosecutor Debra Bouck (now Debra Rousseau) had screened the case and found no reason to file charges and that Chief Assistant Prosecutor Lisa McCormick had agreed with the decision.

“I have prosecuted numerous prominent persons — including police officers, attorneys and athletes,” Dunnings said at the time. “In each instance, I believe that our office has handled the case regardless of status, and shown neither favor nor prejudice to any person.”

In that specific case, Dunnings said, “our office reached the conclusion that no crime had been committed.”

________________________________________

Yes, the two are exactly the same.

guthrie

February 28th, 2014 at 9:04 PM ^

I love it. Spartan fans now want to rely on the defense of, "but they were never prosecuted!" Yeah, just like Gibbons. You guys are COMPLETELY missing the point.

The Feds are now investigating you (and UM) to see if you properly implemented the new mandatory rules provided in 2011 stating that universities are now obligated to investigate any known instances of possible sexual misconduct and the use the lowered "preponderance of the evidence" standard to determine if the allegations are true.

In UM's case, we can point to the expulsion of Gibbons and say we implemented the proper procedures. MSU can't say the same with its situation.

readyourguard

February 28th, 2014 at 9:17 PM ^

Assault occurred-check.
University authorities immediately become involved-check.
Local Police investigate-check.
No charges filed by prosecutor-check.
Internal investigation done by each school-check.
DoE sets new mandates for sexual assault as it relates to Title IX-check.
MICHIGAN revamps their policies as standards based on the DoEs mandate, and expels Gibbons based on new criteria-check.
MSU-hasn't gotten around to revamping.
Feds investigate EACH school to see if everything was handled above board-check and mate you fucking asshole

AlwaysBlue

February 28th, 2014 at 10:56 PM ^

significant details in order to conclude that the cases are alike. One of the two has a witness, a victim who wanted charges to be filed and who filed a federal complaint. One of the two had a nationally known attorney become involved. One of the two resulted in the formation of a group that protested the handling.

dinkmctip

February 28th, 2014 at 6:44 PM ^

http://statenews.com/article/2014/02/breaking-assault

"In other words, was it initiated by a complaint about the alleged assault by basketball players in 2010 similar to how it was initiated at UM by a complaint about the assault by Gibbons?"

-"Cody said the victim filed a Title IX complaint against the university after the MSU police investigation had concluded."

Another note from the article

"Earlier this week, U.S. Department of Education officials revealed that MSU is being investigated for two Title IX complaints, but would not confirm details. "

Not sure if both complaints are the same incident.

LSAClassOf2000

February 28th, 2014 at 7:14 PM ^

I believe there was something in the Detroit News and perhaps the Lansing State Journal as well that indicated the second complaint is a sexual harrassment complaint, but neither article game much in the way of information beyond that, so I am not sure if was related. It may not be, but again, there wasn't much said about either. 

ClearEyesFullHart

February 28th, 2014 at 6:45 PM ^

And honestly, just because they have two scumballs playing for them now that doesn't excuse what Gibbons probably did.  Glass houses and all that, but it doesn't make me feel much better about the situation.

tasnyder01

March 1st, 2014 at 12:15 PM ^

Unless I'm wrong, these two players aren't necessarily scumbags.  Just because there is an investigation doesn't mean they did anything.  I mean, either I'm missig something, or you're jumping to conclusions. 

And if you are saying "well, they're getting investigated by the gov't -->therefore guilty"  I really question your thought process.

ClearEyesFullHart

March 1st, 2014 at 2:58 PM ^

But you've got a young lady staing that Keith and Adreian had raped her. You've got Keith saying that their sex was consensual, but that Adreian had raped her. You've got Keith stating that the young lady said "I'm done" while the young lady claims that she said "Stop". You've got a prosecutor who says he cannot go forward because the stories told by the victim and the corroborating defendant DON'T MATCH. I'm willing to accept that the case may not be prosecutable, but I don't really see any way to frame this where the two gentlemen aren't scum balls. Do you?

dahblue

February 28th, 2014 at 7:33 PM ^

Looks bad at both schools but looks like the victim in EL is pressing for action while the victim in a2 did not. At the same time, the (alleged) rapist in a2 was kicked out while the (alleged) rapists in EL are starting for the bball team (though I hear they have been riddled with injuries).

hailtothevictors08

February 28th, 2014 at 7:38 PM ^

Most of us who followed sports on either campus knew about both of these alleged incidents back when they happened (09 for gibbons and iirc 10 for msu's guys). They weren't secrets. I had no connection to any team but many students knew that something murky happened and that there was some amount of he said-she said going on.



 
I just don't get why it is a story now. 
 
Yes, rape is horrid. Yes, a wrongly accused person can have their life damaged forever. Yes, BOTH of our fine public universities in this state should hold themselves to a high standard in all things.
 
No, we do not know what actually happened. 
No, these threads do not help us know if anyone is actually guilty or not.
Yes, they are getting about as tiring and repetitive as the Fire Rich Rod arguments circa Nov/Dec 2010
 
Again, not saying it isn't a big deal or news worthy, but rather why now?

Tater

February 28th, 2014 at 8:15 PM ^

I am still pissed, considering the "smoking gun" police report where one player said he watched the other have sex with someone who "clearly wasn't into it."

If Gibbons actually got away with raping someone, I am utterly disgusted.  However, if the evidence was "he said, she said" and Gibbons came off as someone wrongly accused, the Michigan staff did the right thing.

It sounds to me like Gibbons may have "slipped through the cracks" and there is a strong possibility that the rules were changed to prevent that from happening and give Michigan just cause to expel Gibbons.  

As for Sparty, one player corroborated the alleged victim's story.  It Tom Izzo gave a rat's ass about the safety of women on his campus, he would have never let them play a second in a Sparty uniform.  However, since he has had to work so hard to recruit against a revitalized Michigan program, he knew he would risk having a terrible team if he got rid of them.  

I don't care if a woman goes to Michgan, MSU, or Pudunk Junior College: she deserves to be protected from sexual assaults on campus.  Michigan has taken a strong step in that direction.  

Sparty is still hiding the names of the two players involved in the Wonders Hall coverup.  And it really, really pisses me off to see the media fawn over one of them for his relationship with a special needs girl and commend the other for his "bravery" in playing through injuries.

I so hope justice is done here.  Hopefully, they didn't victimize anyone else while they were at MSU and it's "no harm, no foul."  If they have really been stand-up citizens since then and the case will never be prosecuted, maybe there is nothing positive to be gained by revealing their names to those who don't already know them.  

But Tom Izzo MUST answer to someone for compromising the safety of every female on the MSU campus by helping the two players cover up the incident.  

 

 

 

AlwaysBlue

February 28th, 2014 at 9:05 PM ^

The AA case is not like the EL case. The latter had a witness, as you point out, and a victim/supporters who wanted charges brought.

I heard a few years ago that this was going to blow up and that Izzo was implicated. My understanding was either the victim or another group was pursuing legal action. I heard this from someone I was told was a fairly well connected EL booster. When nothing happened I figured he wasn't as connected as I was led to believe.

UM2k1

February 28th, 2014 at 8:59 PM ^

Payne and Appling are "innocent victims" because they were never charged, yet UM covered up the Gibbons incident. My gut tells me it was ineptitude at both institutions, and not intentionally hiding sexual assault. At least I hope that is the case.

Michigania

February 28th, 2014 at 9:49 PM ^

NOT ineptitude. What u dont understand is that the AA police deemed no case, and girl also refused to press charges. But the university office has been trying for yrs to boot gibbons nonetheless, and they finally got him before he left. Good for them. No ineptitude.

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

February 28th, 2014 at 9:01 PM ^

attention? ESPN jumped on the Gibbons issue - now the broader story is building and major media silent.

Wonder how long until FSU and the Heisman winner get the microscope treatment?

allintime23

February 28th, 2014 at 9:08 PM ^

I wonder if Hollis will do what's right or do what he does? Actually I know he won't do anything. We all do. If these actions took place at any of these schools my heart goes out to the victims.

UMgradMSUdad

February 28th, 2014 at 11:15 PM ^

Here's one of the things that bothers me about these proceedings: who is on this committee or tribunal or whatever that makes the decision about guilt, and what is their background?  Suppose, for example, that a reasonable person would find more evidence of wrong doing on the part of the MSU players than the Michigan player, but the MSU committee determines there's not enough evidence.  I know this sort of thing can happen in the courts as well:  juries and judges don't all view evidence in the same way, but at least in the case of the courts there's some level of transparency in the proceedings.

guthrie

March 1st, 2014 at 12:18 AM ^

Not trying to be a jerk, but I honestly don't think that makes one bit of difference in terms of what the feds are looking at.  This isn't going to be a question of what the ultimate findings of the universities were in each respective case.  It's a question of whether the universities even got to the point of trying to make the findings.  

In other words, UM can say to feds, "You want to know if we are performing the mandated investigations on complaints of sexual misconduct and then conducting hearings based on the mandated lower standard of proof?  Yes, we are.  As proof, we kicked out Brendan Gibbons using our investigation and new hearing."  UM might still have problems about whether they started the investigation quickly enough.  But there is no question that the investigation was done and hearings were conducted.

Can MSU say the same?  I have no idea.  We'll all find out soon enough.

 

mikoyan

March 1st, 2014 at 11:04 AM ^

I hate to say it but no school is lily white in these sorts of things.  It seems like there are still Glenn Bryant III clouds hanging at EMU.  Toledo just had an incident with one of their players getting a DUI (and a 1 game suspension).  I'm sure if you dig through stuff at other schools, you'll find stuff like this.

bronxblue

March 1st, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^

I long for the days when government, police, and school officials could just do their jobs and I would not have to read hundreds of people rant about them with axes to grind.

artds

March 1st, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^

Why are the major detroit media outlets avoiding this story? This is a huge deal considering these two clowns are still on the team and were never punished.

ADSellers

March 1st, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^

Check out the comments at the bottom of this Detroit News article. A Bloomfield Hills woman named Elizabeth Anne Huxley claims that her daughter ashley, who was a student at msu who commited suicide in 2012, was brutally raped by 4 msu football players. She read the article about the title 9 investigation and plans to contact the university

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140225/SCHOOLS/302250080/#comments

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

March 1st, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^

If anyone thought Doug Smith was a persistent individual, I cannot imagine the depth of passion this mother will draw upon to seek resolution/justice.

MSU is in an extremely tough situation: 2 star players that have to play for MSU to remain competitive, brewing public knowledge about their incident, and a group of Feds with some agenda. Now other folks like this mother start to raise incidents.

There are no winners here. It's just a case of whether players and MSU will be lose anything for their actions.