Fat Charlie is not saying it's his player's fault for Navy, he is just saying
Sorry I didn't get this up sooner, been on the road this week.
From the Chicago Tribune, so Irish, pls don't make the obligatory remark about Michigan fans overreacting. I will let the Tribune pontificate for me. Just another example of the Weissian Syndrome where I'm not saying, but I am just saying it's someone else's fault. Players need to be thrown under the bus to teach them a lesson because accountability stops there, I have no idea how anybody actually wants to be around this man.
Weis putting blame on Irish players?
Not surprisingly, after watching its highest hopes get obliterated by a loss to Navy on Saturday, Notre Dame was in search of why it happened and who was responsible. And apparently Irish coach Charlie Weis has no shortage of candidates. It is a week of "accountability and dependability," Weis proclaimed Sunday. Disgruntled Irish fans might agree with the premise if not the target of the accountability crusade, but Weis apparently already looked in the mirror and then moved on to his players. "There's going to be plenty of evidence today of guys understanding who was at fault for what situations," Weis said. "As you know, after a loss, I'm not big on giving up players, ever. That's not my way. But I think when they watch the tape, there's going to be plenty of evidence. Don't sit there and point the finger at anyone other than yourself because here's what happened on the play."
Chicago Tribune
November 12th, 2009 at 11:12 AM ^
Don't really see what the problem is....
November 12th, 2009 at 11:14 AM ^
If RR did this ESPN talks about it for 15 minutes on CFL.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:21 AM ^
don't complain to me about negative media, especially on espn
November 12th, 2009 at 12:56 PM ^
I'm not clear on this....isn't that the same network that has Lou predicting national championship every week for ND, even with every loss? Just looking for clarification, not piling on. We have our own problems to worry about.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:15 AM ^
your coach sucks. the offensive talent on your squad is off the charts, and charlie can't deal with the fact that perhaps he isn't as great as he convinced himself he was. and yes, i watched the notre dame navy game.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:30 AM ^
Are you just piling on or are you actually making a point?
Glad you watched the game, you might want to look at the boxscore as well though
November 12th, 2009 at 11:39 AM ^
just trying to help you out. as you stated, you weren't exactly sure what the problem was. i clarified matters for you. you are welcome, sir.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:47 AM ^
your reply doesn't have anything to do with the OP though? thats why I was confused
November 12th, 2009 at 11:15 AM ^
The problem is only what? 350lbs? 375 maybe?
November 12th, 2009 at 11:16 AM ^
wrong with this quote... COME ON. There is no difference (IMO) between what Weis has said and what Coach Rod or even Martin has said.
Much ado about nothing.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:55 PM ^
But a lot of people get bent out of shape when Rich does it too. How many "RichRod throws players under the bus" threads have we had?
November 12th, 2009 at 12:58 PM ^
Charlie has been there five years, so if the players aren't good enough that is his fault at this point since he recruited them. Rodriguez's recruits are freshmen with only a handful of sophomores. If he pulled this sort of thing in 2012 he would be just as big a d-bag as Weis is.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:16 PM ^
There may be a LOT more reason it's more egregious that Weis does it now, than when Rich does it. I was just saying that it shouldn't surprise anyone that people make a big deal when Charlie says it since they make a pretty big deal when Rich comes close to saying it. And the differences you mention DO make a really big difference.
Beyond that, I've never seen Weis take blame for ANYTHING himself. And Rich has never said anything as arrogant as having a "schematic advantage".
Lets hope NOTHING about Michigan Football in in year 5 resembles anything in ND/Weis pt. 5.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:38 PM ^
I heard on the radio that one of the DT's on the ND team was quoted as basically saying that Navy had a better gameplan (which is of course impossible since they were playing against a team coached by Charlie Weis). Safety Kyle McCarthy was apparently quoted as saying essentially "the loss is on the players." The local press (which I think is enjoying sticking it to Charlie) asked Weis about the discrepancy between the statements and he said, "That's why one guy is a captain (McCarthy) and one isn't." Douche-tastic!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-091108-notre-dame-note…
November 12th, 2009 at 12:08 PM ^
Cant see what the problem is? Take off your golden blinders. If that sort of blindingly selfish ("I am not saying, but I am saying"), self-serving behavior is ok to you, then I feel you probably have a tough time in this world.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:25 PM ^
You realize your only quoting the original poster and not Weis.
As for your "self-serving behavior", was it self-serving when he refused surgery on his 2nd knee till the end of this season so he could continue to coach and recruit through the spring and summer? Don't make a baseless post just because you want something to be true.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:47 PM ^
i've refused surgery on my shoulder because it would keep me from message board posting
November 12th, 2009 at 1:07 PM ^
Played sir, well.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:16 AM ^
Why are so many Michigan fans bagging on the ND program and Weis; last time I checked, our program is in very big trouble with a possibility of a 2nd losing season in a row, defensive problems that will take years to fix, and a coach that is on the hot seat also. Judge lest ye be judged....
November 12th, 2009 at 11:41 AM ^
I really could not add anything else to the discussion that had not been said multiple times. Also, I hate Charlie. When I travel, I meet people who are not UM or even B10 fans that hate ND because of Charlie. Hence, we get to look over the wall occasionally.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:16 AM ^
Hey Irish,
since we've got you here, and you often exhibit signs of rationality, I'm curious as to what you would like to do with Charlie Weis. Fire him? Keep him? Does it depend on the last two games of the regular season?
November 12th, 2009 at 11:42 AM ^
Going 8-4 with who we have yet to play is not a safe proposition for Weis, I think he has to win out to stay.
Me? I have to weigh the potential losses from a coaching change and where we currently are, I can't personally justify it unless there is a clear improvement that will be made over the short term and long term. Today I don't think that would happen with a coaching change.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:37 PM ^
It's obvious ND has regressed! This is a team that a highly respected analyst predicted would go 12-0. Stop drinking that Blue & Gold kool-aid. Tell CW & company: You're Notre frickin' Dame, play like champions today and everyday.
Okay, I don't believe any of that crap, I just wanted to see what it felt like to type it. It wasn't that satisfying; I guess I'm not cut out for trolldom.
Okay, I don't believe any of that crap, I just wanted to see what it felt like to type it. It wasn't that satisfying; I guess I'm not cut out for trolldom.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:21 AM ^
Maybe they hate playing for the guy so the only way to get him fired is to lose! All of them are already accepted into the business school so it's not as if they are going to get kicked off the team!
November 12th, 2009 at 11:24 AM ^
I'm talking about that bus.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:37 AM ^
As much as it pains me to indirectly defend ND, Navy is very tough team to beat. They run a relatively unusual offense and play with tremendous discipline and effort.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:45 AM ^
If there is one team in the country who you can expect to play to the same level through 12 games its Navy. What they did against OSU was no fluke
November 12th, 2009 at 11:51 AM ^
That offense is also deceiving in that it seems simple but in fact is not...Navy has become the Princeton basketball of college football. Easy to look down on them until you play them.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:59 AM ^
yeah, dobbs is amazing at what he does, he reads the line almost without mistake and by doing so deceives everyone's defensive front. Its all about execution and they execute as good as any team in the country
November 12th, 2009 at 12:43 PM ^
while I agree with your post to a point, I believe more of this loss has to do with ND just not being very good.
This Navy team lost to Temple, and it took them overtime to beat both Southern Methodist & Air Force.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:58 PM ^
I respect the service academies, but despite Navy's consistent 8+-win seasons since 2003 they are not really a good team. They beat a lot of mediocre-to-bad teams and then lose in their games against aboverage competition.
They always play good (even great) teams very tough and make it close but '09 Notre Dame is definitely their best win ever. Previous to this it might have been their win over Wake Forest last year who was 7-5 in the regular season and then beat Navy in the bowl game.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:57 PM ^
Except ND was able to beat them fairly consistently over the last 45 years ... ya know, having a 43 game win streak and all.
November 12th, 2009 at 11:43 AM ^
aside from the Navy win over the Fighting Irish, the very fact that even if Notre Dame had beaten Navy last Saturday, that there was a stadium full of people and more operating in a belief system that had the Fighting Irish beating UConn, Pitt and Stanford in succession and finishing 10-2. That made about as much sense as Michigan football being now on a collision course with 7-5 this year.
Bitterness? In November it's all I have left.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:50 PM ^
at everyone but himself........I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:11 PM ^
This thread is one of the best ever. It takes me back to the Haloscan days.
I have LOL'd a ton here. I thought hard about clicking on yet another "Charlie is fat" thread--but wow--what might have been one of those primal-urge satisfying bitch fests has turned into a genuine MgoBlog HOF thread! Love it!
THIS is Michigan and Notre Dame Blue Blood stuff if ever there was!
November 12th, 2009 at 1:46 PM ^
Ever since the book "Under the Tarnished Dome" trashed Lou Holtz and diminished his effectiveness as a coach to a point where he realized it was over at ND, ND hasn't really done squat. The most damning part of the book was when the author said that Holtz would not talk to injured players, ignoring them until they got back on the field. Instances were cited where an injured player would walk past Holtz on campus and Holtz would ignore him.
Since then, ND has somehow gone from being a school with an absurd recruiting advantage thanks to its Catholic HS pipeline to being a school where "academic standards make it difficult to recruit."
This begs a few questions: WTF was Lou Holtz doing that nobody else has been able to do since? Lou Holtz got enough recruits to fill his roster with NFL draft choices; why hasn't anyone else been able to do that? Did ND suddenly raise their adacemic standards? Did football players suddenly become scholastically unable to adhere to ND's traditional standards?
ND is the biggest sleeping giant in the game. The excuses of Charlie Weis are just that: excuses. I don't know what they did at ND to fuck up the second-greatest program in the history of college football, but I hope they keep it up. It has been fun to watch.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:59 PM ^
But some things have changed. Mainly, over that time, TV. Yes, ND has their own Network. But not only can you see major powers that were hard to find on a weekly basis (Florida schools, etc), but you can see just about any major program regularly. So kids don't have to go to ND just to be seen on TV by family or whoever. The internet and everything opens up everybody to everyone. Used to be you'd just heard storied tales out of South Bend, or Ann Arbor, or Austin, etc. Now everyone can get exposure.
Second, I say this kiddingly, but have you been to South Bend? It's not a nice town, and not the most diverse in the world. Beautiful campus; the town, not so much. And Chicago isn't THAT short a trip. So, it's not as easy to recruit to as when you could build your team on just the best of the Catholic school kids.
And, worryingly, losing brings losing. As everyone says, kids don't know what happened years ago...just the last couple of years. None of them were alive when Lou was doing it. That's the danger of being irrelevant for too long.
Now, have a lot of these things, like scholarship changes, affected all major powers? Sure. But ND was unique in getting a bit MORE of an advantage from some of these things, so if that advantage is lessened, it hurts them more than other teams.
But it doesn't excuse it. It's not impossible to succeed there by any means. I remember football coaches saying USC was down because the campus was in a bad neighborhood, but if you get the right guy in there, powers can be powers again. What they have in tradition and resources is a huge advantage over everyone else.
November 12th, 2009 at 4:41 PM ^
The tougher academic standards have been trumped up for quite awhile now as being a direct result of the Lou Holtz Experience. I also don't know how that comes into play (research), but I do wonder if there is a corrollary between on field success and graduation rates that are consistently above 90%, and also (unlike, say, Michigan) very, very high grad rates for African-American players.
I'm just sayin'