Explain Sparty hate to a puzzled outsider

Submitted by MonkeyMan on

First off- I come in peace

Second, I come in peace (in case you missed the first sentence)

OK

I have lived in Columbus Ohio all my life since 1959. I heard "Go Bucks!" more often than "Good Morning!" (BTW we did have mornings there). So I sort of became a UM fan out of rebellion. I "get" the OSU vs UM hate- both teams have been dominant a long time and knocked each other out of fun stuff a lot.

I do not have as good a sense for what goes on inside Michigan (the State). I sense, from reading these boards, that most of you guys may actually hate MSU more than OSU (I scientifically counted things like "Fuck Sparty!"). I understand CFB state rivalry, but not this one so much. 

There are reasons this dislike should NOT be so intense:

1. UM has owned Sparty forever in terms of wins and losses- despite recent losses

2. I would assume there are many more UM fans in the State of Michigan than Sparty fans due to MSU's long track record of mediocrity- so you should outnumber Sparty fans quite a bit and feel like neighbors/coworkers are on your side

3. MSU has a high percentage of players who are from Michigan and that should give anybody from Michigan a sense of satisfaction when they achieve

 

So what is it? Is it the recent losses only? Was it this intense 15 years ago? Is it the coach? Would a nice guy coach end this dislike? Is it the fans? Are they really different than other fans? Does the fact that ANY team from Michigan is in the playoffs mean nothing?

I believe JH will have us back in the playoffs sooner than later and don't really think about MSU much. So, as an outsider to the state of Michigan, I am curious as to what has happened to make this hate so intense. I understand OSU vs. UM but don't understand why MSU angers so many more given the 3 items I outlined above. What am I missing as an outsider to the state?

thanks ( and I promise not to bring the subject up again)

Go Blue!

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ijohnb

December 6th, 2015 at 10:51 AM ^

My own personal sanity, I am forcing my self to change the way I look at State. I am always treating them and thinking about them as a fraud. As the team that "doesn't belong." But they do now. They are legit and have proven it over a pretty substantial sample size. My hate stems from the fact that I have trouble accepting them for who they are. Last night was kind of a revelation for me. They never had any fear they were going to lose that game. They possess an unmistakeable winners mentality and it is now firmly a part of their program. My hate is giving way to a begrudging respect. Believe it or not it is a little easier to deal with.

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bronxblue

December 6th, 2015 at 10:57 AM ^

They deserve credit for being successful, I'll give you that, but to say they've displayed some winners mentality all year seems like a stretch. They didn't show a killer ability against UM, or Nebraska, or really even Oregon. They won some games because they played all enough to do so, but for everyone saying Iowa was a fraud coming into last night, they played the same game as MSU. They just happened to lose.

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bronxblue

December 6th, 2015 at 11:31 AM ^

It was based on the fact they played in the far weaker division, missed OSU, UM, PSU, and MSU in the other division, and had an overall SOS that was about middle in America.  They also weren't particularly great looking in their marquee victories save NW, as they needed a last-second FG to beat Pitt and won an atrocious 10-6 game against a mediocre Wiscy outfit.  Virtually nobody who followed CFB thought they were the #4 team in the country, so that's what I mean by fraud.  Any other year, they are probably 8-4.

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Girlbleedsblue

December 6th, 2015 at 11:18 AM ^

I don't really think that much about them, but when I do it's because some Spartan fan has put his dick of inferiority complex in my face. Respect them all you want (gross) but you sound like you have Stockholm syndrome. When you have to win on other teams' mistakes, you are a fraud. I'm not saying that a win isn't a win, I'm just saying don't demand my respect on the basis that someone else lost track of downs or dropped a ball. I'm absolutely convinced that if all of the other teams went down in plane crashes, dantonio would call it the day of the Spartans and wonder why no one congratulated him for being the last team standing. TLDR: humble hearts, steel spines vs give me that trophy old man.



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ijohnb

December 6th, 2015 at 11:25 AM ^

do you not see that there is actually a built in inferiority complex in your statement? Why must you see their success as luck? What football related emotional gap are you trying to fill in by believing that? There are people on here saying they are done watching college football this year because of State. The fuck? If that is where are current perception of State is getting us, could it be there is something wrong with our perception?.

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ijohnb

December 6th, 2015 at 11:46 AM ^

is bizarre is that you can relate football fandom to "Stockholm Syndrome" and can boil down 7 years of high level success to "luck.". Yeah, I would say you are a bit delusional and think it is a fair question as to why you have to tell yourself that.

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Girlbleedsblue

December 6th, 2015 at 12:08 PM ^

You're the one talking about your personal sanity and your revelations. I'm talking about why I do not give them that much thought, and why I don't respect them when I do. I didn't say anything about any year prior to this one. But it's true, if you're Michigan, then Stockholm syndrome is a great analogy for what you described.

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ijohnb

December 6th, 2015 at 12:19 PM ^

you don't care about State. Really, I believe you. You posting on a thread about State was what convinced me. State is not our "captor." They are not keeping us "hostage." They are just good and you can't deal with it so you call it luck. I get it, it's cool.

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Girlbleedsblue

December 6th, 2015 at 12:30 PM ^

Not sure when you added the part about them not being our captors, but it's just an analogy. It's also applied in cases of abuse, btw, though I don't think you are being abuses by them either. I think you just find self-preservation in cheering for Sparty. Dude, it's ok, but don't project your own issues on to the rest of us.

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ijohnb

December 6th, 2015 at 12:43 PM ^

don't cheer for them. They are just good. Can't wait for us to see them next year. Two good teams, should be a good one. I guess to you it is a bad team v. another bad team that gets lucky. It must suck to live in that world as a "fan."

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Soulfire21

December 6th, 2015 at 10:49 AM ^

It's mostly the recent wins.  Ask a State fan when the first college football game was played and they'd tell you 2008.  Interestingly, they have become exactly what they claim to hate about Michigan: arrogant. At work the Spartans have become completely insufferable (to the point of even claiming they dominated Michigan this year a la previous years even though they never led until there were all zeros on the clock).

Many of us live in Michigan and we have to deal with Spartans much more often than buckeyes.  It is comical to see how they act when they win.  I got a text last night from a friend from high school who went to State and it said "Good game for us, what time does Michigan play?"  Great, you just won a Big Ten championship and you're still talking about Michigan.  To there's a combination of irony, an inferiority complex, their constant need for praise and validation, the "disrespect" thing, etc.

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ijohnb

December 6th, 2015 at 10:57 AM ^

is the thing though, those are State fans, not the team. You take the fans out of the equation and State is a pretty impressive outfit. I also don't think Dantonio is unreasonably fixated on Michigan either. If he was, there would be a noticeable drop off at other points in the season and there isn't. I don't think he or the team has a Michigan "obsession.". I think it is the fact that they so obviously "expect" to beat us and have results to back it up that drives us batshit crazy.

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The Wolverine …

December 6th, 2015 at 11:23 AM ^

I disagree with that....I live in Lansing and see and hear the local media and their team hating on Michigan. The fans here doing nothing but talk about Michigan and post stupid shit all day about how bad we are and how we were exposed as the 7-5 team we really are and not one Sparty fan I know has admitted that their team got lucky in any of their games this year.



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The Wolverine …

December 6th, 2015 at 12:16 PM ^

Because if you really see the team and their coach talk about Michigan...then you can see the hatred towards Michigan...Dantonio has obsessed his hatred towards Michigan since the little brother comment by Mike Hart, I feel he has used that to fuel his fire to hate Michigan even more.



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JonnyHintz

December 6th, 2015 at 11:52 AM ^

Do you not count beating Purdue by 3 at home, losing to 5-7 Nebraska, being up only by 7 late against a middle of the MAC CMU team, or winning on a 4th down spike by Rutgers as "noticeable drop offs"? I mean let's face facts here. MSU really showed up for 3 games this year. Michigan, Ohio State, and Iowa. They beat Michigan on a fluke play that had a .02% probability of happening. Not because they played better, not because they blocked a kick and out worked us. They won because our punter made his only mistake(s) of the season and gift wrapped that win for Sparty. Then they have the audacity to proclaim for the rest of the season that they're better. They led for exactly 0 seconds, and won. The way they won, required absolutely no skill. Now that's not discounting the success they have had over the past 8 seasons. They've built a good program that knows how to win. But it's the way they HANDLE winning. At least ACT like you've been here before. I mean for as much bragging as they've done the past 8 seasons, you'd think they'd at least be aware that it's come at a time when Michigan is in its worst 8 year stretch in program history, and both Ohio State and Penn State have gone through scandals. Point being, you don't have to be a pretentious prick about winning. Especially when you win some of the ways Sparty has won.

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The Baughz

December 6th, 2015 at 10:52 AM ^

I cant stand their whole "It's us against the world" and "chip on our shoulder" mentality. Certainly they have been disrespected in the past, but they have been a very good football program as of late, and at some point, you have to drop that charade. I coach high school football and we always tell our kids that there are two kinds of people in this world: Those who are humble, and those who are about to be humbled. Sparty was a dropped punt snap away from being put in their place. It will happen...eventually.

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ijohnb

December 6th, 2015 at 11:02 AM ^

is where you get yourself in trouble with your perspective. What would have it have meant for them to be "put in their place." In a lot of ways that statement feeds into their mentality and how they are able to maintain it. That statement conveys an inherent lack of legitimacy in our perspective of them which allows the disrespect card to be played time and again to great effect.

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SHub'68

December 6th, 2015 at 11:16 AM ^

and that is part of the problem. They do not understand 'act like you've been there before.' Not one iota. Nor do they give the very respect they constantly whine for. The whole 'little brother' thing. The media should have laughed him into oblivion for acknowledging the comments of a player and worse, ridiculing his height or some shit. And more recently, mocking opponents fans. These things can be done in the locker room, but not publicly. Completely classless, disrespectful stuff coaches just don't do. And worst of all, through all of this, they keep fucking beating us. Watch..we have one National Title since the 1940s and some a-holes went and split it up on us as a going away present for Tom Osborne. But these dicks? They beat us on one of the clusterfuckiest cluster fuck punts of the ages, lost to Nebraska, beat OSU on their worst day in years, take out Iowa's biggest offensive weapon in the first quarter, and will probably fluke their way to the damned CFP, start next season ranked #1, and STILL claim the disrespect card...

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Amaizin' Blue

December 6th, 2015 at 10:54 AM ^

Did you eat paint chips as a child?

But seriously, as I became a Michigan fan from NY and then as a student and alumnus, we beat Sparty regularly. It seemed like every 3 years or so they would pull an upset but there was no doubt we owned them.

Now after watching our hoops program crater in the past 20 years and Izzo taking advantage of that (to his credit), we are suffering a similar fate in football. Look at the series history in both sports and you'll see who the "Leaders and Best" are. But only recent history truly counts.

Dantonio is easy to hate which I do just like I hate Izzo. They whine and bitch and moan but I will admit they are very very good if not great coaches. Dantonio had the fortune of us heading into a historic low point for our program. To his credit he built his up.

Still, with JH on board we are headed in the right direction and have competent people in charge. We always run a program to be proud of rather than some of the scum that comes out if East Lansing.

The past 8 years have hurt but rest assured well emerge stronger. Our hate will always be there for Sparty but there is no doubt who out #1 enemy is.



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bronxblue

December 6th, 2015 at 10:54 AM ^

It's mostly the recent success, plus the fact that they are a profoundly unlikable team generally. Same with Izzo with his antics, but at least there you have a track record. When I was at MSU during the JLS era, they couldn't fill a third of that stadium most weeks, and yet they would throw food and rocks at my 100 lb wife as she ran around with her UM shirt on in the middle of winter. OSU I never hated as much, and while ND annoyed me they aren't a bunch of monsters. But MSU is like every bad sports radio caller and bro trope rolled into one mediocre school.

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Lampuki

December 6th, 2015 at 11:06 AM ^

That's how I fell. I went to Michigan in the 80s and early 90s when we dominated them. I should hate OSU and ND but I don't have the same visceral feeling about those schools. It's their coaches players and fans. They are dumb and never stop taking about things like App St and the Fab 5 even though those teams dominated them.

I am also tired of the soap box fans saying we are becoming them. Not even close. You can despise your Rivals and talk about it on a forum without becoming your rival or obsessed. Those holier than thou types are the biggest tools on this board.



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SHub'68

December 6th, 2015 at 11:30 AM ^

winning and athletic excellence I would handle fine. Even arrogance is acceptable after a period of dominance. But for the coaches to continue the whining, the tantrums, and classless fan-taunting is just, well, not how you're supposed to do it. They are doing it the wrong way and they are regularly beating us. Throw in the fan stuff others have mentioned, and this has turned them from a rival we liked beating, and didn't like losing to, into a rival we hate.

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Girlbleedsblue

December 6th, 2015 at 10:56 AM ^

It's 2 things ... The constant begging for respect and the way they make everything in their lives about michigan. The university itself is fine, but their athletes and fans are a damn embarrassment.



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Badkitty

December 6th, 2015 at 4:23 PM ^

My take is that we're a better university in general.  Would you pay out of state tuition to go to Michigan or State?  I don't live in Michigan after I graduated and I have met very few, if any, Sparty alums, either undergrad or grad school, since I left Michigan and that was over 20 years ago.  I have met a lot of Michigan undergrad or grad school alums all over the country.  

Their beating us recently just gives them some sense of validation that they are "just as good" somehow.

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Badkitty

December 6th, 2015 at 4:23 PM ^

My take is that we're a better university in general.  Would you pay out of state tuition to go to Michigan or State?  I don't live in Michigan after I graduated and I have met very few, if any, Sparty alums, either undergrad or grad school, since I left Michigan and that was over 20 years ago.  I have met a lot of Michigan undergrad or grad school alums all over the country.  

Their beating us recently just gives them some sense of validation that they are "just as good" somehow.

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Leonhall

December 6th, 2015 at 10:58 AM ^

I'm done watching college football until our bowl game. I didn't watch last night and will not watch playoff game with MSU in it. I'm turning off college football and things related to our rivals. At work, I will ignore the idiots.



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ijohnb

December 6th, 2015 at 11:13 AM ^

let them do that to you. Bowl season is a great time of year. The only thing that State being in the playoff did was ensure that our bowl game will have higher ratings than theirs. ESPN - New Years Eve? Good work there, no amount of obnoxious commercials is going to fix that scheduling debacle.

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kb

December 6th, 2015 at 11:01 AM ^

bragging rights, couch-burning fans, Sparty - one of the stupidest mascots on Earth, the ugly colors, etc. MSU also had it's heyday of dominance back in the fifties and sixties when they won or shared six football national championships, so they have some history too.

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DrMantisToboggan

December 6th, 2015 at 11:01 AM ^

For me it's the undying inferiority complex, even with their greatest run of success since the the late 50's early 60's PLUS the fact that 85% of their fans are degenerate, white trash morons. It's a good thing green is their color so that the fans who only own Camo can wear something to the games.



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Mabel Pines

December 6th, 2015 at 11:15 AM ^

If you even say "Michigan is hard to get in to", they think you are disrespecting them. I'm sorry that it hurts, but check the rankings. They just have such a chip on their shoulder, that it permeates their personality. I'm not kidding, I have known very nice individuals who have turned into huge jackasses the minute they became msu students. Just sad, bitter little people.

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SHub'68

December 6th, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^

Ann Arbor is kind of like someone picked up Berkley, CA and dropped it in suburban Detroit. Not sure about now, but when I lived in MI a lot of State's fans were straight to work out high school sorts. Nothing wrong with that at all; that was my dad. But there are definitely two different ways the world is viewed.

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