ESPN.com Article on Peppers' Heisman Chances, and a Good Omen
ESPN.com's Dan Murphy is up with a good article on Jabrill's Heisman chances here. Very fair analysis, I'd say. He pretty much lays out what needs to happen for Peppers to win, and I can't disagree with any of it.
And here's a good omen to consider. Each of Michigan's previous three Heisman winners was recruited by one coach, and won the Heisman playing for the next guy.
Tom Harmon was recruited by Harry Kipke, and won the Heisman playing for Fritz Crisler. Desmond Howard was recruited by Bo, and won it playing for Mo. Charles Woodson was recruited by Mo, and won it playing for Lloyd.
Jabrill was recruited by Hoke, and ...
October 11th, 2016 at 2:28 PM ^
...will win it playing for Harbaugh.
/FIFY
October 11th, 2016 at 2:28 PM ^
Peppers even cares. Of course, if he won it, that would be pretty cool. But the thing that impresses me beyond his freakish skills, is he just seems to love to play the game! Very different from a lot of self-promoting athletes. We are truly fortunate to be able to see this guys don the maize n blue every week.
GO BLUE!!
October 11th, 2016 at 2:31 PM ^
Oh come on, I know that's the standard coachspeak, but how could he not care, at least a little, about winning the freakin' Heisman Trophy?
October 11th, 2016 at 2:35 PM ^
But I don't think it's as important to him as it may be to others. Of course, I haven't spoken to him about it and I could be wrong. My point was that he seems to truly love being on the field with his team. Reminds me of Barry Sanders v. Emmitt Smith. Barry was the man. Way better than Smith. But who gave the ball to the ref after each TD v. keeping every single TD ball for their own collection.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:41 PM ^
youth football participation trophies. What would he want with a Heisman? Maybe do a couple of TV commercials with some old guys in a house, but that's it.
October 11th, 2016 at 2:50 PM ^
The Heisman Trophy would mean more if it wasn't seemingly reserved for running backs and quarterbacks.
October 11th, 2016 at 2:32 PM ^
But he needs to do a LOT more before he can be considered a legit Heisman candidate. He doesn't have a ton of tackles, no picks, 1 punt return. The award is typically given to players simply on their gaudy stats. Winning it primarily as a defensive player, we all know, is next to impossible except for those generational-type players (Woodson, CB). Peppers is not "generational" as a defensive player.
He is going to need 2 or 3 games against somewhat good competition (MSU? Iowa? OSU for sure, Big Ten championship) where he does crazy good things. Every Heisman winner seems to have that "special" performance against a great team. Michigan really hasn't played anyone other than Wisconsin, and he didn't do anything against them.
Just trying my best to put a realistic spin on the whole thing while a lot of people are getting caught up in the hysteria.
October 11th, 2016 at 2:38 PM ^
I agree that he will need some highlight moments in big time games to pull it off, but I disagree that he is not generational. His aptitude at, like, 3? 4? different defensive positions, in combo with his return and offensive abilities make him a generational player. Certainly more so than Manti Teo - he should finish with more votes than Teo got.
October 11th, 2016 at 2:48 PM ^
Is hurting him, IMO. If he was strictly playing a position like RB (which I think he'd be great at) and then returning punts, he'd be able to pile up gaudy numbers. It's really difficult for Heisman voters, right or wrong, to look at things that go beyond stats. I would say the vast majority of them look at the 3-5 candidates in front of them and rank based upon which team is the best and who has the best numbers.
Because he's being lined up everywhere on defense, he's not recording much in terms of stats. He's only brought one back to the house. He hasn't done a ton on offense. There's just not enough solid "evidence" there statistically to justify him at this point. It's more of a feel than anything and it's stronger for us Michigan fans because we are watching him closer than the nation.
Now, if he goes into East Lansing, Iowa, OSU, Big Ten CG and does huge things (Ie, returns a punt, runs for 100, those types of plays) then yes, he should be considered in the top vote getting. Right now? No, he needs to do more.
October 11th, 2016 at 4:55 PM ^
You're singing the song that the Peyton Manning, Ryan Leaf, and Randy Moss camps were singing about Woodson. All of them were quick to point out that Woodson's sophomore numbers were in many ways better than his numbers as a junior. And they were right, so far as his defensive numbers went. But this year as in 1997, there is only one player that is impacting all facets of the game which makes him thee outstanding college football player. And after all, that's what the HT serves to recognize, the most outstanding college football player. Not the most outstanding QB, not the most outstanding WR, and not the most outstanding RB.
Sports writers and HT voters need to educate themselves about the HT and not let themselves be caught up by gaudy statistics. And here's why. Lamar Jackson and J.T. Barrett are successful, in many ways, because of the offensive scheme in which they are operating. The same as when Peyton Manning, Ryan Leaf, and Randy Moss lost to Woodson. Woodson won the HT because what he did, what he accomplished, was irrespective of the system and the same is true for Jabrill Peppers. It takes an outstanding college football player to play multiple positions and play them well. Peppers does it in spades.
October 11th, 2016 at 2:59 PM ^
but Peppers is a LB this year. How really common is it for LB's to get INTS?
(unless you are Ray Lewis)
October 11th, 2016 at 3:04 PM ^
How common is it for LBs to win the Heisman? Not very :)
He's just not going to win the award as a defensive player with his stats and the fact that in my opinion, he's not a generational-type defensive player (don't confuse this with all-around generational player). I think he needs to build up a lot of big time numbers from running the ball or returning basically a punt a game back to the house.
The jack-of-all-trade players rarely make the cut with the Heisman if at all, just because they are so spread around they don't put up great #s.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:09 PM ^
You are correct. He is not "generational." The only player Harbaugh could find to compare him to, after much thought, was born over a century ago. He is a "centennial" player. :-)
October 11th, 2016 at 3:11 PM ^
I just want to make sure this point is clear. I never said he's not a "generational" (or centennial) type player. He's not a generational DEFENSIVE player. He doesn't transcend the game on that side of the field like a Woodson does.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:21 PM ^
Thanks for clarifying. I thought you were saying otherwise.
I really don't think Woodson won because of his tackles or interceptions or coverage. I think as long as Peppers stays in the top 10 or so in tackles for loss and punt returns, and he continues scoring multiple types of touchdowns, he'll have more than a serious chance.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^
Just showed how ridiculous he was as a player. He actually had a fair amount of INTs (16 in 34 games, which is basically a pick every 2 games). However, he completely shut down a side of the field. You couldn't look that way as a QB when Woodson was out there. He made one side unplayable. I don't think Peppers does that. He's going to be flying all around, but his coverage skills aren't top notch.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:49 PM ^
I know. The fear of Woodson was real. I still believe he didn't win because of that. I believe he won because of the mystique of him lining up on offense and being unstoppable even when you knew he was getting the ball. Peppers is showing that same mysterious quality and that's why he's a part of the discussion. My point is, when that's happening his defensive stats are significantly less important than say Suh's were.
October 11th, 2016 at 4:05 PM ^
But I still don't think he displays that "throw away from his side" yet. I think the QBs know where he is, but he doesn't have the coverage ability to stop slants and the deep balls. He's more of a disruptor at the line.
October 11th, 2016 at 6:20 PM ^
It's been explained in ths thread multiple times: Peppers is a LB now. He doesn't have a "side." LB's don't get a ton of picks.
The Heisman should be for the best football player in College Football. Peppers is the best player in College Football. If you'd like to refute that he's the best player in College Football, do that. Your comments suggest you might not even be watching the team this year.
October 11th, 2016 at 7:48 PM ^
He's not the best player in college football. He's up there. But he's not. I'm not going to go full-on slap and back down.
If the race ended today, Jabrill Peppers would not be in New York for the award. He needs to have several massive games in order to get there. Lamar Jackson is the best player in college football, and I don't even think right now, it's all that close. Sorry, not going to waver on my stance. Peppers is fantastic. But he hasn't done enough yet to teams worth a damn.
October 11th, 2016 at 8:26 PM ^
You could, however, grant us your wisdom and define what constitutes the best, or as the HT statement says, the most outstanding college football player.
October 12th, 2016 at 8:47 AM ^
Jackson has had the ball in his hands about 90 percent more than Peppers. In his two massive games, at home against FSU and at Clemson he was:
FSU: 13/20, 216 1 td/1 int. 146 yards on ground, 4 tds.
at Clemson: 27/44, 295 1 td/1int. 162 yards on ground, 2 tds.
That's against #2 and #3.
He's the 10th leading rusher in the nation AS A QB. He's the 13th rated QB in terms of passer rating. No one impacts the game more than him.
Peppers has touched the ball on offense what, 7 or 8 times? He's been very good on defense, but Lewis and Wormley have had a bigger impact than him on D. Yes, he's a great special teams player, but has only brought one back against a JV team. If he wants to win the Heisman, he needs to have massive moments against great competition.
So that's why he's not the best player in college football. Most versatile? Sure. But that doesn't win you the title.
October 12th, 2016 at 5:27 PM ^
He's averaging 1.7 per game so far this year.
Pulling up the NCAA archives...I'll randomly start with five years ago...looking for LBs with a similar TFL rate.
And the only one in 2011 was Khalil Mack. You think if Khalil Mack had been running back punts and scoring offensive TDs as a wildcat QB they wouldn't have invited him to New York? Even doing it in the MAC, they still would have brought him there.
It's not all that common for an LB to get that rate of TFLs. Mack every year. Shawn Crable in '07. Shazier in '12, and Trent Murphy at Stanford. Scooby Wright...and now that I think about it maybe these should be pace-adjusted somehow because Peppers surely isn't seeing anywhere near the number of defensive snaps Wright had. I don't remember any of AZ's opponents going three-and-out sixteen straight possessions.
And Wright was ninth on the ballot for that alone. Put Scooby Wright on a national championship contender and imagining him running back kicks and playing quarterback and wide receiver. The hype would have been enormous.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:34 PM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 3:42 PM ^
I know a lot of fans can occasionally get caught up in the hype and put their head down to follow the leader. Not saying anyone here in specific or even in this blog. I just think this snowball is getting a bit out of control and Peppers has a decent way to go before he can be in the top 3.
October 11th, 2016 at 4:58 PM ^
But maybe he should have looked a bit closer to home, Tom Harmon, with whom to compare JP.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:31 PM ^
and he has a return for a td to ice the game? It''s still a popularity contest. If he has a big game against OSU in a win, including a signature moment? I think he easily gets it. No one else in college football is going to have THAT much on the line except for Barrett. 2 vs 3 matchup for conference champs and playoff birth? If he shows up big in that game, he wins.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:48 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
October 12th, 2016 at 9:55 AM ^
A generational defensive player. When he goes into the draft at the end of this year, can you honestly say he was one of the best defensive players Michigan's ever had?? I sure as heck can't. I don't even think he cracks the top 10.
You say he's incredibly gifted and a great athlete. But that doesn't make him a great defensive player. Woodson's a generational guy. Derrick Johnson, Kevin Williams, Reggie White, Mean Joe Green, Arrington, Julius Peppers, Ray Lewis, LT those are generational defensive players that you can rattle off in your head. Peppers is not even close to that level.
Like I said, I love the guy he does a TON for this team. But he's not a Heisman candidate (yet), and he's not going to be remembered as one of the best defensive players in Michigan's storied history.
October 11th, 2016 at 4:39 PM ^
a stat like WAR in baseball? Mathlete, can you get on that?
October 11th, 2016 at 2:32 PM ^
If Peppers continues to dominate, and then makes a play or two that basically tips the OSU game in our favor (IDK maybe a punt return TD where he strikes the pose IN CBUS), then he is going to win the Heisman.
The Heisman will most likely go to a playoff team, which probably means that it will be Deshaun Watson or Jabrill (yeah I'm calling Wazzoo to beat UW). So Jabrill just has to be more impressive than Watson. If he makes big plays in the biggest game of the year, two weeks before the award is given out, he will get the votes.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:30 PM ^
how many timeouts will this guy burn on October 29 when he sees Peppers on offense?
October 11th, 2016 at 3:43 PM ^
About Northwestern first haha
October 11th, 2016 at 5:14 PM ^
Thank you for posting the link. OP couldn't be bothered apparently.
October 11th, 2016 at 2:57 PM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 3:10 PM ^
Michigan’s teammates described Peppers as the type of player they used to make in video games to cheat the system. His coach compared him to the previously incomparable Jim Thorpe. Reporters and camera operators chased after him Saturday night as he jogged across the field to greet his family after his home state showcase in New Jersey.
Ha. I never thought about it like that. He does seem like the type of player you would put in when you weren't particularly interested in being fair, which is fine really.
I thought I had heard that - for now - he has the fourth best odds for Heisman in Vegas, although I could have been mistaken. He will need some more highlights for that reel, but I dare say he's off to a decent Heisman reel start six games in.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:27 PM ^
I would be happy and satisfied if he is one of the 3-5 players invited to the ceremony. That would still be very impressive as a defense first, multi-role player. I also think that is very realistic.
October 11th, 2016 at 3:51 PM ^
If Peppers can score some more TD's in games that aren't 78 point blow outs as well as continue wrecking havoc on defense then he will have a great shot at the heisman. He is already a top punt returner and he looks like a natural zone read QB.
October 11th, 2016 at 4:58 PM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 4:35 PM ^
I think we'll be seeing a whole lot more of him in the coming weeks.
Woodson was in 30 offensive plays a game by the end of 1997.
Harbaugh knows what he has.
October 11th, 2016 at 5:21 PM ^
Wait, what? In what game? I remember Chuck being in more like 10-15 plays, at least against OSU, which is why he was so amazing-- he came into the game and, in like 10 plays, caught 4 passes for 80 yards or whatever (all for first downs, if I recall); OSU knew he was getting the ball, more or less, and they still couldn't stop him. Do you have a link for this 30 plays stat or is it just memory? I say so because I could be completely wrong, too- I'm genuinely curious.
October 11th, 2016 at 5:46 PM ^
30 plays a game is incorrect. It might have been 30 plays total all season. Jabrill plays way more offense than Woodson did.
October 11th, 2016 at 5:40 PM ^
I think it is more accurate to say that by the end of the year Woodson had been in 30 offensive plays. However, in no game did he come close to 30 offensive snaps.
October 11th, 2016 at 7:18 PM ^
According to the linked article from which this discusson stems, Woodson had 30 offensive touches in his career at Michigan. So if he was in nearly half of Michigans snaps by the end of 1997 thats a whole lot of decoy duty.
My memory of 1997 ( I was 33 at the time, so no little kid) is that the fanbase clamored for more Woodson on offense because he was used sparingly but very effectively.
October 11th, 2016 at 4:46 PM ^
while the coach was being interviewed by the press following the game and asked about Peppers performance, and he sort of lost track of thought on who to compare him to, eventually mentioning Jim Thorpe, I have to admit, I also thought of his name, too.
But the first guy who came to mind was actually Tom Harmon. Harmon was more than an offensive player, just like Charles Woodson was more than a defensive back, and could have done anything really well on the football field like Peppers. And those guys both won Heismans.
Even in high school, Peppers never seemed to have a position you could lock down. Because he was good at everything he did.
I will acknowledge that he isn't a great cover corner like Jourdan Lewis and Charles, though he could be. He is faster than a speeding bullet, can leap tall guys in a single bound, and disguised as a linebacker, can make more tackles for loss than your prototypical linebacker, Dlineman or safety. But there is nothing on the football field, if asked, that Peppers can't do, and do extremely well. And to me, that is the essence of the best football player. Not the best orffensive or defensive player, but the best football player, bar none
He can do it all, and has shown it, already. And Michigan fans, used to greatness on the football field, and dynamic players, a historical pantheon without peer, knows that Peppers like Woodson is just a cut above and extremely special.
We didn't need the coach's endorsement but having it, just underlines the truth. And this truth ought to set you free when the Heisman ballot is considered.
October 11th, 2016 at 5:11 PM ^
October 11th, 2016 at 5:29 PM ^
I think you're right- I don't think he's our best, or second best, defensive player. Those would be, to me, Wormley and J. Lewis, and you could say Glasgow too. Jabrill has been only decent in coverage this year-- not spectacular. It's his versatility that will have to win the HT for him, which means he needs a couple defensive TD, about 4-5 more offensive TD, and at least 2 return TD on special teams. And he has to make signature plays against OSU in a win and against whomever Michigan subsequently plays in the B1G championship. But really, against OSU, since both teams will likely be undefeated and the buildup will be incredible, thus meaning there will be millions of additional eyes on him in that game. I mean, i wish he would win the trophy, but I just don't see it unless he does a lot more.
In Woodson's case, he was bar none the best CB and DB in college football and was the best defensive player in college football. Then you add to that that he also played offense and sealed the game against OSU with his special teams TD. Jabrill isn't even the best defensive player in his conference or on his own team, unfortunately. He *is* awesome, but he's not on the same level as Woodson was if you watched both of them live and were old enough back then to really comprehend what Woodson was doing (i.e., you were at least a late teenager) and are young enough now to accurately remember that comprehension. Woodson was in the realm of a Lawrence Taylor as a defensive player-- complete game-changer. Jabrill isn't there yet on D.
October 11th, 2016 at 5:26 PM ^
Woodson could have been a pro running back.
And he was better than peppers.
I mean Woodson was the greatest college player Alongside bo and Vince young... then he went on to be a great pro player.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad