double blue

August 4th, 2014 at 3:13 PM ^

How do you seed the season of the only predominantly defensive player to win the heisman number 14? It should almost be a lock to win and certainly we'll above 14. Fergodsakes.


August 4th, 2014 at 3:20 PM ^

Because stats, I'm guessing.  It's often difficult to quantify DBs full impacts with statistics like you can with other positions.  Yards, TDs, TFLs, sacks are all much more quantifiable and easy to understand with traditional stats.  And it's difficult to say 'use your eyeballs' like Heisman voters were able to in '97, when you're trying to compare players across a whole century of the game. 

And even with Woodson's '97 season, I still think Barry Sanders would almost be a lock to win this tourney.


August 4th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^

I'm pretty sure I went through and voted for all the older names in each matchup, excepting Woodson. I don't know why, I just find more respect for the old guard of college football. Does this mean I now have to get a shotgun and sit on my porch screaming at the kids on my lawn?


August 4th, 2014 at 3:30 PM ^

When it comes to going with the older names, I will say that conscience drove me to choose Herschel Walker over Tim Tebow more than anything, but I also did my part for Woodson and Sanders as well. Dorsett / Rozier was a tough call though - I admit that I went Dorsett simply because I think Dorsett had the more productive career overall.


August 4th, 2014 at 3:26 PM ^

I really wish I would have been old enough to watch Barry Sander's have done the things he did.  I think the only player that may have had the same kind of impact was LaDanian Tomlinson in his prime.  Can any of the older folks state if this is an accurate comparison.


August 4th, 2014 at 3:33 PM ^

Comparing LaDanian Tomlinson in his prime V Barry Sanders in HIS prime would be analogous to comparing The Godfather part II to Toy Story part II.  Both are movies and while some people really, really liked the second Toy Story it simply cannot compare with one of the greatest if not THE greatest movie ever filmed.

And I'm old so I know of such things.


August 4th, 2014 at 5:39 PM ^

Youtube of the 1988 Oklahoma St - Nebraska game. Yes, every second of it. Barry gives you that Denard feeling every time he touches the ball. He could run sideways faster than most backs could go straight ahead, so many of his highlights feature three or more missed tackles. Sanders averaged 7.6 yards a carry in 1988. And he got a ton of carries.


August 4th, 2014 at 4:07 PM ^

Going to be honest, i voted Woodson, but i didn't truly mean it.

I mean, are you kidding me?  Derrick F'ing Thomas, the single best defensive player ever to put on a college uniform (sorry, Deacon Jones).


August 4th, 2014 at 4:36 PM ^

In almost every vote, I voted for the more recent guy.

That's just the way that the game has gone.  Offensive numbers have gone through the roof.  With some sports, the offense-defense balance is static enough to where you can compare guys from today with guys from 40 years ago, but that's not the case with college football.  You've got guys like Denard Robinson breaking the 1,500 yard barrier and not even getting an invite to New York.


August 5th, 2014 at 12:21 AM ^

I'm not quite sure how they did it back in 1976 so can't say for sure if Lytle was invited or not, but he did finish 3rd in Heisman voting. In today's climate, the 3rd vote getter is definitely one of the invitees.


August 5th, 2014 at 9:36 AM ^

1469 yards -- compare that to Johnny Manziel -- 1410 yards rushing with 21 TDs -- as a quarterback who also threw for 3,700 yards, 29 TDs, and 6 INTs while completing 68% of his passes.  The offensive numbers (mostly for dual threat QBs) are absolutely insane compared to what they were before Vince Young came along.  And then there's Robert Griffin III -- 4300 passing yards, about 10.5 yards per pass attempt, 37 TDs to 6 INTs, completion percentage of 72.4%.  Absolutely unheard of until recently.  Compare that to Andre Ware, who won the Heisman but averaged more than 2 ypa less than Griffin.  But his numbers for their day were considered so off the charts insane that they had to give him the Heisman even though everyone acknowledged at the time that they were compiled against a bunch of cream puffs. Ditto for Ty Detmer.  A guy like that wouldn't be on the ballot nowadays.   

And then there's Tim Tebow's Heisman year -- 32 passing TDs and 23 rushing TDs.  Michigan's all-time leader in rushing TDs, Anthony Thomas, never broke 20.  No Michigan player has ever broken 20.  Tebow did it as a quarterback. 

When you are comparing the acheivements of Heisman winners from the past 10 years to those of the previous 100, the recent ones just blow them away. 

The only guy whose achievements haven't been obliterated is Barry Sanders.  Nobody has come close to his record, which shows you just how incredible he was. 


August 4th, 2014 at 4:45 PM ^

Manziel, really?  Matt Lienart had a better career than him.  

If questionable characters such as Cam Newton and Manziel ar going to be on the list, why not put Reggie Bush on?  

But I understand that some of the older names need to be on the list too.  I mean, Ol Bronko was a heckova player that was truly a pleasure to watch.  


Edit/Addition: ESPN sucks

CRISPed in the DIAG

August 4th, 2014 at 5:18 PM ^

Woodson was my favorite college season and a good candidate for best.  I'd love to make a Football Outsiders-type analysis of the leverage or effect on winning each game the Woodson had.  He seemed to make the biggest play in every game that year.

Barry Sanders circa '88 should win.  Those numbers can not be real.


August 4th, 2014 at 6:06 PM ^

I actually didn't find those decisions to be all that hard.  I don't agree with their seeding, though.  I agree with the others that the Barry Sanders season was easily the best ever.

Bill the Butcher

August 4th, 2014 at 6:54 PM ^

They should start making these things without Barry Sanders.  His season is so far and away the best season ever that I think it would be a much more interesting conversation and bracket if they did the best non-barry season ever.  That way whoever was matched up with him would actually have a fighting chance.  

What Barry did was truly amazing. He averaged 7.6 yards per carry with 373(!!!!!) total carries that year! (Including his bowl game).  

Barry would been the 15th highest ranked TEAM in yards per game (just under 240) last year.