ESPN: Kiper & McShay both give nod to Forcier over Barkley
On the afternoon version of Sportscenter, Kiper and McShay both answered "Forcier" to the question of "Which player - between the two - has had a bigger impact on their team's success?"
They both cited Tate for helping make a bigger turn-around, his dual threat abilities, and having fewer "weapons" around him.
McShay went on to say he thinks Forcier is the best of ALL the young impact players, at any position, in the country.
We're all worried about how Gardner will feel sitting for a few years behind Tate? Maybe we ought to be careful what we wish for. With the draft "gurus" already taking notice, Gardner (or Denard) may not have to wait that long...
(sorry no link, was video on SC, not an article)
September 17th, 2009 at 9:33 PM ^
Ugh, Tate is not a pro QB, he will be here 4 years. DG has said he is not afraid of competition.
September 17th, 2009 at 9:36 PM ^
Height: 6-1 Weight: 205
Tate has a very similar size, and looks creepily similar when he runs around in the backfield...not too mention the completion percentage
September 17th, 2009 at 9:38 PM ^
Garcia spent 5 years in the CFL before making it to the NFL. Forcier's size and arm strength (good, not great), will limit him in the eyes of most NFL scouts. But yeah, it's 2 games into his freshman season. Let's talk about his draft prospects in his junior year.
September 17th, 2009 at 9:51 PM ^
It was mostly minor sarcasm for the concerns out there about Gardner losing interest due to Tate's success.
However, I will disagree with the idea of Tate struggling to gain NFL acceptance. The NFL game is changing. We'll see more wildcat, maybe even two (throwing vs running) QB type backfields by the time he's done college. I think he'd have a legit shot if his career plays out on the good side.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:34 PM ^
I agree, the NFL is a copy cat league. The age of the scrambling QB could be here before we know it. Aside from that, Tate is a passer first type who happens to be blessed with the ability to run. If his passing, quick reads and arm strength keep progressing, that alone could get him into the NFL in 4yrs. There's already a handful of QB's in the league who are short and or can't make all the "throws". All that matters is if he can get the job done, and Tate has showed us some magic in only his first two collegiate games.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:55 PM ^
Drew Brees at 6ft tall has made it.
September 18th, 2009 at 6:39 AM ^
and Troy Smith (6ft) as well, but he backed up a rookie last year so that might not be a good example. But he's in the league though.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:40 PM ^
I agree that we should wait but I think that we should give him time to develop before we write off his arm strength. We still have Barwis.
September 18th, 2009 at 1:15 AM ^
There's no chance Tate is actually 6-1. I mean look at him out there. He's like 5-8.
September 17th, 2009 at 9:38 PM ^
but will need all 4 years to get there given his size, IMO, and I am not complaining b/c I'd love for the kid to stay all 4.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:33 AM ^
Although the prototypical pro QB tends to be 2 or 3 inches taller than Tate, I wouldn't rule him out so early into his college career. Look at Drew Brees.. He's 6'0"...
September 17th, 2009 at 9:36 PM ^
What did Barkley do? He put together one drive at the end of the game, and a good portion of the credit for that goes to Joe McKnight. If you took the uniforms off the two teams, who would remember Barkley's performance let alone laud it?
September 17th, 2009 at 9:47 PM ^
play this week.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:16 PM ^
...because of injury, not ability.
September 17th, 2009 at 9:46 PM ^
I know he played well and has earned the spot as of now, but with him being injured, if the other guy plays and lights it up who's saying that Barkley keeps the job?
September 17th, 2009 at 9:56 PM ^
If Tate continues to perform the way he did last week, the worst part about not getting Devin Gardner will be that someone else will get him. I mean, I can see him coming here and redshirting his first year. That would mean he would have two years left when Tate graduates. But if he does not come here, we have plenty of time to find the next QB. I just don't want Gardner going to a team we play every year.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:01 PM ^
Not being a jerk or anything, but just curious as to what school he would seriously go to that we would play every year?
September 17th, 2009 at 10:07 PM ^
MSU, ND, OSU, PSU. And any other team in the Big Ten. I know we do not play all the Big Ten teams every year (e.g. PSU) but that is sort of what I meant. Let him go to Oregon or Boise State. Or WVU. Just don't let him stick around our neighborhood.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:14 PM ^
http://rivals.yahoo.com/michigan/football/recruiting/player-Devin-Gardn…
Look at Gardner's offer list. Seriously, what team scares you in having a chance at stealing Gardner from us? Most of his offers are from pro-style teams, in which Gardner would be a better WR than QB prospect. Gardner isn't going anywhere.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:42 PM ^
I just said if he does, I hope he goes far, far away. And if you do not think that all the Big Ten teams and ND would love to have him, well, no comment.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:46 PM ^
Sure he could go to other teams, but he ain't going to play QB for most of them. IIRC, Notre Dame's offered him as a WR, not a QB. Gardner's skills are best suited for a spread offense, and with the offers he has, the only two contenders are Michigan and Oregon (Florida has not offered Gardner). Oregon could be a threat, but I like the things in our favor; Gardner is from the state of Michigan, one of his ex high school teammates is on our team (Cam Gordon), and Gardner has frequently visited Michigan.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:55 PM ^
From the article: "Definitely needs that redshirt year in order to hone his skills and learn the offense." If this is true, then it certainly helps convince him to come to a school that could stand to redshirt him (barring injury).
September 17th, 2009 at 10:17 PM ^
I didn't ask what teams would want him. I asked where HE would seriously go. Doesn't seem to think too highly of OSU or MSU, PSU has Bolden and Newsome, ND wouldn't even come close to utilizing his true potential, and I seriously doubt the no. 1 QB in the recruiting class would go to a second tier (at best) Big 10 school.
I could see him going to to Oregon, Florida, or somewhere like that, but I don't think you have to be worried he'll go to a school we play every year.
All this is hopefully irrelevant though as he's gonna be winning MNC's at UM :)
September 17th, 2009 at 10:26 PM ^
If Tate continues to perform the way he did last week, the worst part about not getting Devin Gardner will be that someone else will get him.
I'd say the worst thing would be not having much QB depth. I am uncertain about Denard's viability as a full-time QB.
September 17th, 2009 at 9:58 PM ^
Gardner should be willing to red-shirt, and when he's a RS Frosh they can bring him in as the change of pace guy, unless DR is really that good of a QB by that point. Gardner will be a weapon in short yardage situations as well as someone you'd expect to be able to run a little more physically.
September 17th, 2009 at 9:58 PM ^
DG's a special player... its a long way to signing day, but you're right, I don't want to see him wearing any other uniform.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:01 PM ^
If we win NC's with Forcier then whats the big deal? This is Michigan. We will get someone else.
Go Blue
September 17th, 2009 at 10:09 PM ^
Yesssss. Someone who understands.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:08 PM ^
the answer to that question is so obvious that i'm surprised they asked it. which QB is surrounded by 5* talent? which one is surrounded by a team that went 3-9 the year before? so then who has to do more work?
September 17th, 2009 at 10:21 PM ^
As far as Barkley vs Forcier, Barkley isn't even being thought that well of in his own fan base:
But to say that he is now a certifiable star? To say that he has officially come of age? I disagree. Come on: He completed 15 of 31 of his passes in the game — 48 percent, which would’ve been good for ninth in the Pac-10 last season — and some of the misses were glaring.(HT: BHGP, you really should read their post)
September 17th, 2009 at 10:34 PM ^
I enjoyed their Mouton blurb.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:34 PM ^
This is just another example of how wins and losses mean everything in this game.
Very few people believed in RichRod or Forcier until the last couple of weeks.
Now you even have Rich Eisen stating "I love you, Rich Rodriguez" on the NFL Network last night when Eisen himself was bitching and moaning a couple of weeks ago about RR and the Freep hatchet job.
It's a little satisfying to sit back and watch the bandwagoners jump on board after finally discovering what we've known for a number of months.
Unfortunately, it only takes a stumble or two for those same bandwagoners to turn on this team and RR - so they have to continue to focus one week at a time and give all the naysayers from the last 18 months a nice big shit burger to eat.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:11 PM ^
playing qb at michigan may become the most coveted role in all of college sports. i realize how ludicrous that sounds, but think about it. its a system that lets the qb pretty much run the whole show, put up crazy numbers, and just stand out. throw in the other aspects of michigan that attract recruits, and i dont think it realy is ludicrous.
gardner would have a favorable shot at starting his jr and senior seasons, which is pretty standard (despite our recent history). in those 2 years he would have excellent opportunities at heismans and national championships.
i know if it were me, i'd pay my dues to go to the perfect situation rather than a second choice just to start sooner.
as for tate vs barkley, c'mon. its impressive to do that in the horse shoe, but not on tate's level at all.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:18 PM ^
If our biggest concern is that Tate plays so well in the near future that he ends up being drafted after his junior year, I will absolutely take that. A quarterback has to be pretty damn awesome to be drafted after his junior year, and I would be thrilled if you told me right now that Tate would end up fulfilling that type of prophecy. Don't get me wrong, I love what Tate has done so far and I can't wait to see where we go with him. I just don't think him leaving early is something we need to worry about just yet. ;)
September 18th, 2009 at 12:03 AM ^
agreed, but usually the concern involves the jr qb only having started 13 or so games. tate would still have been a 3 year starter in this scenario.
i also dont think tate's nfl hopes are limitted by his size. typically, you want someone 6'4. but as long as you have some escapability, a shorter qb is fine (assuming he has an arm). rex grossman (a small qb) really wasnt that bad till he injured his knee and lost some mobility. right now i'd think the biggest concern has is a lack of an nfl arm. his ability to throw on the run is already unbelievable, though. so the draw might be there.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:08 AM ^
Forcier is very similar to McCoy....
Savvy qb on the smallish side, quite mobile, clever play maker, and very skinny as a freshman. Remember, McCoy bulked up big time his second year....I am sure Barwis will do the same with Forcier. RR is creative and will find a nice way to incorporate DR into the offense on a consistent basis....Wild Cat with two qbs in instead of running backs could get real fun if either can take the snap, run, pass, or hand off to a speedy back. Crazy options there. DG will probably redshirt then play his rs freshmen year a bit, and start his "sophomore" (3rd) year. That is the type of progression and depth we want not only at the qb position but across the board if RR can reel in the talent and keep them happy.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:17 AM ^
The only way that DG starts his rs soph year is if tate leaves. Is it realy a bad thing to let DG develop behind the scenes. I know this comparison has been beaten to death but Vince Young was consistently good until his junior year. Why not let Tate win a MNC and a heisman in 2012 and then let DG take the helm and then repeat with two more MNC's and a heisman in 2014.
September 18th, 2009 at 1:03 AM ^
Agree with the mccoy comparisons, though Colt may have slightly better pro upside. (I said slightly)
September 18th, 2009 at 12:15 AM ^
RR is trying to build a program of excellence through the system, strength training, and recruiting depth.
1. System, seems to be moving in the right direction on offense....defense remains a work in progress.
2. Strength Training....Barwis, play fast, over-practice...nuff said.
3. With depth we may lose recruits that simply want to start right away, but sometimes you have to be willing to let those guys get away.....Michigan would have been much better off if Carr didn't bend to Henson's demands coming out of HS. USC's second string could start at most schools in the top 25. And while we may never get to that level of recruiting and depth, it is important to have 4 and 5 star guys competing at every position. IMO, there are enough spots and time in a Michigan football career for all good athletes to see the field and make an impact.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:51 AM ^
Back to the original topic, I highly highly doubt Tate will be leaving early. Or, if there was a draft right now, I am willing to bet most NFL teams would take Barkley over Tate.
The reason I say that is that the NFL has proven over and over that they value physical stats over college production. I think it is stupid, but that is the consistent trend.
For the record I would take Tate in a heartbeat, and that is an entirely unbiased, non mancrush opinion.