Elite 11 Day 4 Open Thread

Submitted by MichiganMan2424 on July 21st, 2012 at 3:21 PM

The final day of the Elite 11 is today, from 3-10 PM Eastern time. As always, post any updates you find along with normal discussion.

I'm also going to put some reviews in the OP that I haven't seen posted so far.



Davis Webb- Webb’s appearance off the field is deceiving, but once he’s in live action the Texas Tech commit shows a willingness and confidence to take chances and make high level plays.

Honorable Mention: Shane Morris, Riley Ferguson

Strongest Arm

Shane Morris- Morris’ arm strength was a well known commodity coming into this event, but that doesn’t diminish the fact that he has the best arm in attendance. At times the velocity on his ball rivals that of some of the college counselors.

Honorable Mention: Asiantii Woulard, Christian Hackenberg


JT Barrett- Quickness in drops, decision-making, and getting rid of the ball is the primary difference between the high school participants and college counselors. Barrett has shown he’s among the fastest in those areas through three days of action.

Honorable Mention: Shane Morris


And then from this thread on 247, per JC Shurburtt;

"We think the top five "performers" at this particular event (based on what we've seen) are in no order...

Asiantii Woulard
Shane Morris
Joshua Dobbs
Kevin Olsen
Max Browne"

"Prospect-wise, we think...

1- Max Browne
2- Shane Morris
3- Christian Hackenberg
4- JT Barrett
5- Kevin Olsen"



Leaders And Best

July 21st, 2012 at 3:42 PM ^

there isn't much to watch either. Each QB only has gotten about 7-8 throws in a 7-on-7 skeleton session. The Elite 11 will probably yield less footage than the Opening.

It might be cool to see some of the behind the scenes work in the film room, but I doubt that would make for good television.


July 21st, 2012 at 3:33 PM ^

I've been hearing and seeing that Morris's biggest flaw is his decision making, while Browne's is his slow and goofy release.  It seems to me that would make Morris the better prospect, since it's a lot harder to fix a mechanical thing developed over 15 years into muscle memory than it is to better learn the game.  Somebody said Browne's motion will make it difficult for him to improvise when on the move under pressure and when he needs to throw a quick dart, and that seems like a pretty sound prediction to me.  I think Shane will beat him for the Heisman.


July 21st, 2012 at 3:44 PM ^

I'm just going to say this... while I'm all in with the Shane lovefest, calling him a future Heisman winner before his senior season of high school starts is a bit much. Only four players will win the heisman while he is eligible to even play. FOUR guys. And despite the fact that QB tends to be the position with the best shot at winning the award, he still has to compete with quarterbacks from multiple classes. Get excited, definitely. Just don't assume he's the next Peyton Manning before he even steps on campus. Even if he is that talented, it's pretty well known RB is going to be an important aspect of this offense, which will take away from his numbers. I'm really dang excited for him to play for Michigan, but I don't think it's wise to get your expectations too high let alone predict that far into the future.

However, that's some decent info I hadn't heard before regarding Browne.


July 21st, 2012 at 3:54 PM ^

Mgobloggers aren't to positive about the odds for a Heisman during his 4 years.  How about an Emmy?


One of the funniest things I've ever seen!  and doing the  and hahahahaha! 


   killing these player skits tonight!!



July 21st, 2012 at 4:09 PM ^

is that if they say Shane did great, then this camp is reputable and I will look upon it favorably. If it says Shane underperformed, I will think that it's just a camp and will discount it

Leaders And Best

July 21st, 2012 at 4:23 PM ^

Still no Shane Morris. Not sure what is going on in the chalk talk or film review, but I just don't get it when compared to the reports from recruiting sites. Rankings per Brian Stumpf twitter.

1. Stanton

2. Greenlee

3. Zaire

4. Hackenberg

5. Browne

6. Del Rio

7. Goff

8. Kincade

9. Williams

10. Ramsey

11. Cockerville

turd ferguson

July 21st, 2012 at 4:36 PM ^

That is strange, and I agree that it's inconsistent with a lot of what we've been reading.  Keep in mind that what we've been reading has been biased, including what's in this thread.  That 247 link does have Morris among the leaders for arm strength, gunslinger, and quickness.  However, left out of the OP is that he's not mentioned as one of the leaders for best mechanics, "football junkie," most consistent, best work ethic, most improved day 1-2, most improved day 2-3, "under the lights," college fit, or riser.

By assembling all of the good things said about Morris without any of the good things said about others but not Morris, we're probably distorting our views on this a bit.  Still, other people have done rankings that have Morris very high, so I agree that this is a little weird.  Maybe it's another Trent Dilfer mind game or something.

Leaders And Best

July 21st, 2012 at 4:53 PM ^

Farrell (Rivals), Shurburtt (247Sports) and Biggins & Kennedy (Scout) have all had Shane Morris in their top 5 performers for the weekend so far in drills and 7-on-7 (some even have him as the best). They have also said that the chalk talk and film review (which they don't get to see) also carry a weight in the official Elite 11 rankings, but it still seems strange to have such a dichotomy.


July 21st, 2012 at 6:09 PM ^

While your argument about ignoring the winners of the other awards makes sense to an extent, it still doesn't explain the strange top 11 ranking, because it's not just Morris getting accolades and not showing up in the rankings...

Gunslinger: Webb... not ranked

Strongest Arm: Morris... not ranked

Football Junkie: Allen... not ranked

Most Improved 1-2: Swoopes... not ranked

Most Improved 2-3: Ramsey... 10th

Quickest: Barrett... not ranked

Under the Lights: Bateman... not ranked

College Fit: Williams... 9th

Riser: Woulard... not ranked

Just doesn't add up.


July 21st, 2012 at 4:55 PM ^

My best guess is since Dilfer was the epitomy of checkdowns and not making any mistake what so ever that guys like Shane who have the arm to maybe force a few and not take the checkdown is a reason he might not move up for these coaches.

Also, I'd love to hear how they define "coachability" seeing as how they only get these kids for 4 days and your expecting them to be just like you in that time frame is a joke.


July 21st, 2012 at 7:35 PM ^

It is if he isn't being honest with his evaluations. He doesn't need to rank Shane in his top-11 if he truly doesnt think he's in there, but leaving him off to raise the profiles of other QBs is completely dishonest.


July 21st, 2012 at 5:19 PM ^

Not a knock on Dilfer he won a ring not making mistakes and so I would expect him to want guys to play the game the way he did.

Leaders And Best

July 21st, 2012 at 5:28 PM ^

- Another solid 7-on-7 session, best in group per Scout.

Group 2 in the books - 1. Shane Morris 2. Danny Etling 3. JT Barrett 4. Zach Greenlee

- Details on Shane's session from 247Sports Board:

Morris up now, hits slot wr in the flats.

Morris holds on to the ball for a while before checking down to a RB.

Morris back up, hits a 15 yd post with nice zip on the ball.

Throws an in route that goes through the WRs hands.

Shows nice touch (good rep since some question that with him) on a seam route to.the TE that is dropped.

Shakey Jake

July 21st, 2012 at 5:46 PM ^

to watch Shane when it really matters on Saturday.

Here's hoping he materializes into the next great "passing" Michigan QB (no offense to Denard who is a great QB and who will hopefully show a much improved passing game this year).


July 21st, 2012 at 8:14 PM ^

but I'm much more interested in what Shane does against MSU on 3rd and long with DLs trying to tear his head off and the game on the line.

Mr. Yost

July 22nd, 2012 at 12:18 AM ^

He claims to know this "it" factor for QBs, yet he was never an elite QB. Granted most coaches aren't either, but when you listen to him...it's almost like he's trying NOT to pick the mainstream or guy with the most hype. He admittedly ignores a lot of things scouts value and goes off his "eyeball test" more than anything. It seems too personal with him. Even when they were selecting the QBs.

It's a joke that he's even the "head" of this thing. Why not get an acclaimed QB guru? Why not get someone who's highly regarded by Manning, Brady, Brees, etc? Dilfer is not that guy.

Lastly, why is it so opinionated? Why isn't there more of a formula or process? Sure, opinions are ALWAYS going to play a part. Just like they do with the BCS, which took the polls into account, which are votes on by people. Nonetheless it was a system. Dilfer seems to have perameters, but all in all, he's just going off his gut more than anything else.

Start the "TD25 Camp" if you want to do that. This should be about finding the best QB prospects in the country, nothing more, nothing less.


July 22nd, 2012 at 12:44 AM ^

QB gurus deal with mechanics mostly. This camp includes installing a gameplan(TD would know), learning said game plan(TD would know), executing said gameplan(TD would know), etc etc. There a reasons a certain guy goes to a certain guru, to learn certain things. This camp deals with broader styles of QB and broader measures of tests than gurus would be familiar with.
An example-day 2 the coaches were pushing check downs(part of the coaching and gameplan), Shane was firing passes downfield and the scouts were impressed but Shane wasn't high on the Elite 11 list. It could be that that day the coaches main focal point was coachability and that would explain Shane not being highly rated that day. He didn't follow the coaching or the gameplan. Understand this is not a knock on Shane, it's teaching. There are lessons that aren't entirely explained at the time.
Is it right for Shane, maybe not. But that doesn't mean there isn't method. Just like the TD pick, is he the perfect guy, maybe not but there is method. So far the Elite 11 people like the job he's doing and I haven't heard the kids complain. Why are fans that aren't even watching it?

Lazer with a Z

July 22nd, 2012 at 1:03 AM ^

Updated rankings from the scout.com. (via twitter)

EDIT: From the link posted 2 minutes before me. 

Top 5 Performances of the Day:

1. Asiantii Woulard
2. Jared Goff
3. Shane Morris
4. Cooper Bateman
5. Josh Dobbs

Scout's Elite 11 after four days (previous ranking in parentheses)

1 (1). Kevin Olsen - Olsen came back to the pack as every quarterback has had a subpar throwing session now.

2 (2). Shane Morris - A slow start on Friday, Morris has turned in back to back impressive performances.

3 (6) Josh Dobbs - One of the surprise performers, Dobbs keeps making plays withouy truly having a bad session.

4 (4). Max Browne - Browne had his best session of the week, but he still hasn't been one of the top 7v7 performers. He was one of the best during practice on Thursday and Friday, if not the best.

5 (3). Brice Ramsey - Friday night's effort was spectacular; Saturday's was merely average by comparison.

6 (9). Asiantii Woulard - Another performance like Saturday and we can start talking about Woulard pushing for No. 1.

7 (10). Jared Goff - Goff yo-yo'd the last two sets of rankings with a great performance thru Friday, a bad performance on Friday, and the bounce back performance of the day on Saturday.

8 (11). Cooper Bateman - One of his best performances in 7v7 on Saturday following the same pattern as The Opening: the more reps he gets, the better he gets.

9 (NR) Troy Williams - Williams doesn't show any signs of slowing down as he's put in back to back excellent performances. 

10 (5). Anthony Jennings - Dobbs and Jennings have been neck and neck through the whole week, but Dobbs had another strong day, while Jennings had an off day by his standards. 

11 (7). Devante Kincade - Kincade fell back to the pack as he failed to connect with the same regularity that he did earlier in the week.

Dropped Out - Malik Zaire