Dropping a recruit may be a net positive for them

Submitted by kawter on
Hear me out before you throw stones 
 
 
At the end of the day, I'm moderately convinced that getting exposure and accepting an offer from Michigan will raise a HS athletes perceived value (as likely being evidenced by Rashad Weaver)
 
The alternative of never offering the kid in the first place may in fact end up resulting in him going to a "worse" school or not having the caché he would have with committing to Michigan. 
 
I admit it isn't the best process and probably an emotional train wreck for the kids but I have to believe having them offered by Michigan, accepting, and being let go will land them better opportunities than never being offered in the first place. 
 
I'm curious to have someone debunk this...
 
 
 
*edited* foobar title to slightly less foobar

dipshit moron

January 28th, 2016 at 3:59 PM ^

the same kids that act like movie stars and string colleges along while they commit and decommit over and over? you are being much too kind. and you have only heard from one side so far. stop treating them like they are 10 year old kids. they cant have it both ways. plus until you really hear what went on why come to any conclusion?

    how about this , those of you that are so sure that harbaugh is so corrupt, put your self up front and ask him all those questions that you are so sure you already have the answers to.

blueinbelfast

January 28th, 2016 at 4:08 PM ^

Yes, but Weaver and Swenson didn't really commit and decommit and act like divas, did they?

I think you'll find that most of us who are uneasy with this aren't even saying that we don't think Harbaugh should do what he has to do to get the best players.  But to deny that a few kids are getting hurt along the way is just nonsense, seemingly intended to allow you to make yourself feel that you are still entitled to feel that everything we/he does is the right thing because we're Michigan and he's Harbaugh. 

Really, it's not unlike the people who trot out the 'college players should be paid' line to justify Chris Webber's actions and claim Michigan didn't deserve to be punished or tarnished.  Yes, college players deserve to be paid and it's bullshit that they need to struggle to buy a new jacket in the winter.  But that doesn't change the fact that Webber knowingly broke the rules and that Fisher and Michigan probably should have known.

The world is full of tough compromises and purity may be an unattainable goal (if it even should be a goal).  But don't try to get up on your high horse and claim it's the kids' fault in the first place.

Kmaize

January 28th, 2016 at 4:30 PM ^

if I don't write the kids a letter of my sincerest apologies and condolances for being able to go somewhere and play the game that they love and get the opportunity for a college education for their effort on the football field somewhere other than the University of Michigan. Hurt? Who's hurt?? Are feelings a little bruised... probably not their ego's maybe; But I'm sure wiping these soon to be adults' tears away with egyptian cotton hankercheifs isn't doing them any good for preparing them to face the world out there during college football and post college football.

People are acting as if the kids were on campus and security forced them to leave because the more popular kids didn't want them there anymore. I had my scholly pulled because of stupid things done in the offseason to hurt my football playing chances way back in the day. Kids know that they must perform and the offer of a scholarship is contingent upon their play throughout their ENTIRE high school career and can be rescinded at any given time and when they are, it's for a pretty valid reason that the kid already knows about but usually won't admit to. Plenty of people said Swenson played to not get hurt his senior year and opposing coaches stated that he was not giving full effort when playing against them the entire senior season. I'm sure the staff mentioned it to him before that this year counted. The coaching staff won't address this later on because it's catty and I wish the kids that are going elsewhere the best of luck, as they do/will I'm sure.

They will be fine.

blueinbelfast

January 29th, 2016 at 3:59 AM ^

So, I'm going to assume that you, like most of us, like nothing more than when a recruit announces for Michigan full of enthisiasm, loving the Maize and Blue and counting the days until he gets to step foot on campus (maybe just like you and I did from the time we knew we were going to Michigan until we actually got there?).

But, because of the fact that they are going to get a free ride for football (not exactly a walk in the park in any sense of the word, and since their talent level apparently renders them expendable to Michigan, hardly any guarantee of a future lucrative career in the sport), any feelings of love or loyalty they feel toward this university that we love are meaningless, and they have no right to feel hurt that that dream was taken away from them?  I don't quite remember how this went with Weaver, but there's no doubt that Swenson was Blue all the way.

Not only that, but they should continue to feel that loyalty to the university enough to show gratitude (which by the way, they both did anyway) to Harbaugh just for taking them in the first place, like thanking a girlfriend who just dumped you for having spent any time with you at all in the first place.

Give me a break.  Again, it happens all the time, and I don't think Harbaugh is a bad person (and I want him to continue to do what is necessary to get back to the top), but no, it's not a great look for us, and yes, these kids do deserve some sympathy.

Wolfman

January 29th, 2016 at 5:04 AM ^

I am not going to argue that point. I believe, and if I didn't, I meant to add a desire that going forward things of this nature would not happen again. I don't like the look either and I have always felt we were above the SEC and Urb in that respect. I don' want that to change.

Inasmuch as Swenson was a Hoke recruit, I did not feel that Drevno and Jim asking him to attend a camp at MI so they could be certain they were getting the level of player his ranking indicated was out of line. His refusal to do so and actually refusal to take OVs anywhere, including UM raised a red flag for me. It was as if he was unsure of his ability and if true, I don't think it out of line for the coaches to research and find out why he was satisfied with that offer but reluctant to perform for those he would be playing for. Also, given his ranking, if he was not hiding anything from J.H. and Drevno, he should have sensed an uncertainity on their part and if not willing to assuage their concerns, the prudent thing for him to do would have been to look elsewhere, again based on his overall ranking and realizing the staff had reservations as to his abilities.

I, as a coach, certainly would not want to accept a commitment from a young man who, by his lack of action, was essentially saying. "I am fine with having no more than a guaranteed education from Michigan." This is not what Harbaugh is about and he certainly is aware of that. His claims of trying to reach Harbaugh ring false to me when he understood completely he would be fully availabe to him when he arrived at the camp they told him to attend. No, I am not upset with the actions of the coaching staff in regard to Swenson. If there was another reason, such as a medical concern or any reason that would have justified his refusal to attend camp, I certainly would have listened. My take  from that, based purely on my understanding - I have no insider info - was that based on his reluctance, Jim was justified in not honoring that offer.

Now as to Weaver, I feel this is all on Harbaugh. He is the one that made the offer and in my opinion if Harbaugh was not confident with his offer, he should have owned it, or at minimum, contacted the young man immediately when he made the decision his inclusion in this class was not a priority. I don't want to see this going forward because being a non-alum, the major reason I became a fan of M was, as Bo said, and I believed the same thing he did, it offers the best combination of athletics and academics. With Stanford's rise, that is now debateable, but over the long haul, that statement rings true to me. Furthermore, this is a relatively large class and I believe, based on his stated desire to become a wolverine, he would have displayed an attitude and work ethic that woud not have been at odds with what Jim is trying to instill.  Like you, I felt his offer should have been honored.

I look at the SEC and see it for what it is, that being basically a league equivalent to a Triple A fam team in baseball. I realize they bend and do not break the rules, but I don't want to give them ammunition to make a claim they are able to back up with proof that we operate in the same manner. I have a great deal of faith in Jim but he, more than most of us, is aware of the values that were in place when he played and were followed after he left. I don't believe this will be standard operating procedure going forward and I have no doubt he is aware of what the fan base expects of him. I think he is among the best teachers and motivators in the game today and he offers enough as a coach, coupled with the prestige of a Michigan degree that he can be largely successful as to recruiting without jeopardizing the image of the school.

So I do not believe we differ much at all in the direction I wish the program to follow going forward. It proved successful for decades and because I am a former h.s. coach as well, and even with the rules supposedly the same, I was fully aware of a few coaches who were not above moving kids into their district, if it was on paper only. I was as competitive as anyone, but if I would have engaged in similar activities, there would have been no reason for me to continue in that role. My job, when hired was clear. I was hired to coach and - basically of my own accord - to instill values in these youung men that would serve them throughout their life. But my allegiance, by virtue of accepting the terms of that contract, was to the young men of my school district. Moving a player in would have required that one of the young men that had attended that school since elementary would have been cheated out of playing time, and that alone was enough to prevent me from doing such. But even stronger was the realization to do that would have simply been wrong. That was enough to stop me. And I'll add that whenever I run into a former player the genuine warmth we enjoy by these chance encounters is one of the greatest feelings I experience. Simply by looking into their faces, I am overcome with memories that extend over a 25 year period. Those hugs are genuine, Sir, and continued pay for a job I would have done for free.

 

Kmaize

January 29th, 2016 at 11:12 AM ^

I agree. The Weaver situation kind of weirds me out. I still don't get why he wouldn't call Jim or the staff and keep in contact. I guess my perspective comes from experience. If you interview for a job and never follow up, you can get forgotten about ,regardless of how great the interview went. I don't think that the Weaver thing was wrong, it just could have been handled a little better by both sides. Maybe someone thought they contacted him ... I have no idea, but when someone publically says that "no one has contacted me", someone should contact them one way or another.

I don't think the Swenson situation was the same at all. That camp knew. He was a highly recruited player in the Hoke regime. He had to have known. Even if he didn't know that he was still being scouted and his scholarship was shakey, WHY WOULD YOU DOG IT AND NOT GIVE YOUR ALL!?!? That just baffles me, that he and his camp are surprised by this. I don't know many coaches that want a player that would do that his senior year, instead of solidifying their spot and continuing to work on their game and their body for the play at the next level.

Kmaize

January 29th, 2016 at 10:52 AM ^

Getting a full ride on any merit isn't a walk in the park. The problem is the coddling of someone that clearly didn't work hard throughout the year and improve, which is what he was asked to do. EVERYONE that's gotten any type of attention from it from colleges for their academic or athletic prowess or ability knows that they have to continue to improve or at least remain constant because it's a competition getting into a unversity and receiving a scholarship based on whichever merit they are being "scouted" on. If a kid doesn't perform academically his senior year of HS, his scholarship can and more than likely will be pulled and given to someone else that did. The kids know this going into recruiting and applying for colleges or they SHOULD know this. This is something that should be told by their HS counselors, academic advisors, coaches, parents... some form of guidance counselor. Swenson was blue all of the way with Hoke's staff and a conditional with Jim's staff. Harbaugh isn't even granting 5th year seniors a guaranteed spot, it has to be earned. EVERY DAY! The players that have scholarships could have them pulled if they don't EARN them. That's the problem I have. Sitting back thinking that everything is great and relaxing. It's a competition, just as life is. You don't get promoted or kept at your job just for being there and leaning on the merits you had last year correct? I lost my football avenue so I relied on my scholastic avenue and studied as hard as I played. Their dream was to play football, they wanted to play at the University of Michigan. Their dream is alive, very much so. As is the opportunities presented to them because of their talents. I just don't understand how people can continue to cry for ones that don't bust their ass to get there and continue to work just as hard to stay there. If it were public about all of the kids that had their academic scholarships pulled, or musical scholarships, or grants pulled because of lack of funding, would everyone be as up in arms as they are now about Swenson?

I'm not saying Swenson should be thrown out on his butt and not allowed to play the sport that he loves. He just won't be playing for the university of michigan because of whatever the staff saw as him not giving enough effort or being the type of player that THEY wanted. They didn't initially recruit him as well. He had the entire season to do more. He decided to not. The staff made their move and such is life.

Again, the kid will be fine. No need to cry for him Argentina.

dipshit moron

January 28th, 2016 at 4:32 PM ^

so the kids and family hold no responsabilities? and your still missing the main point. i dont need to  speak for harbaugh, but you have not heard the other side of the story. so you dont know if anyone is hurt or not.

blueinbelfast

January 29th, 2016 at 4:12 AM ^

If you're suggesting that the kids and their families were naive for believing that an offer meant a 'commitable' offer, and that a 'commitment' meant a commitment, then fine, that's probably true.  And should they have taken the hint, be it through silence or other suggestion?  Probably (and certainly, Swenson should have come to camp in AA if asked to do so).  But considering that our reputation for the last while had been that we honor our offers and commitments, did they maybe have some reason to believe that they could depend upon an agreement they had entered into?

Coach Carr Camp

January 28th, 2016 at 4:01 PM ^

My gosh people, stop trying to make all these mental gymnastics to justify the recruiting in your mind. This is just how recruiting works and its not a big deal, it doesn't need anymore justification. 

UMForLife

January 28th, 2016 at 5:51 PM ^

I know another kid whose scholarship was taken back for no reason. It is from a low level D1 school. He was devastated. He is trying in another college. S*** happens. I am not sure who is right and who is wrong. I bet this happens a lot. Having said all of those, keep talking about this is not helpful. We should drop this and move on.

grumbler

January 29th, 2016 at 6:45 AM ^

If you are simply objecting to the word "devastating," you are going about it in entirely too roundabout a way.  Unless that's just a strawman.

Do people get hurt when one side breaks a verbal contract?  Sure.  Do students get hurt far worse by a school breaking the verbal contract at the last moment than a school does when that happens?  Absolutely.  Is the hurt that the student suffers easily mitigated or eliminated by continual honesty and openness from the staff?  Of course.  Is the staff paid millions of dollars to, in part, recruit successfully and honestly?  You bet.

Recruits have been unnecessarily hurt by actions of a staff paid handseomely to not do things like that.  The argument that it is okay to damage recruit's chances (and maybe lives) as long as the damage isn't "devastating" is despicable.